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    The Niagara Falls - singular or plural?

    Topic

    The Niagara Falls - singular or plural?

    Comment
    Meine Tochter schreibt ein englisches Referat über die Niagarafälle. Ich habe ihr Handout korrigiert und immer Plural gesetzt, wenn auf "Falls / falls" referiert wurde. Sie hat protestiert und mir einige Zitate aus dem Internet gezeigt:
    "The Horseshoe Falls, also known as the Canadian Falls, is part of Niagara Falls".
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_Falls
    Aber im gleichen Text:
    "The falls produce a large amount of mist, which occasionally renders viewing them difficult."

    "Niagara Falls forms the international border between the Canadian province of Ontario and the U.S. state of New York, also forming the southern end of the Niagara Gorge. The falls are located 17 miles (27 km) north-northwest of Buffalo, New York and 75 miles (121 km) south-southeast of Toronto, (...)"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niagara_Falls

    Und auch in dieser Quelle wird Singular verwendet, wenn "Falls" als Name erscheint, und Plural bei "falls".

    Sind "(the) Niagara Falls", "Horseshoe Falls", "Bridal Veil Falls" jeweils Eigennamen, auf die im Singular referiert wird? Was würde ein BE speaker oder ein anderer native speaker, der nicht in der Nähe der Fälle lebt, verwenden?

    Ich freue mich wie immer auf "Aufklärung"!
    Author Raudona (255425) 11 Apr 12, 16:15
    Comment
    This BE speaker reckons "falls" is in principle always plural. It has to be plural if it has "the" before it. To me, "The Horseshoe Falls is..." is wrong.

    Edit: I would normally put an article before the name of a waterfall, and I suspect the usage of "Niagara Falls" without an article (and with a singular verb) results from the fact that Niagara Falls is also the name of the both the Canadian town and its American counterpart.
    #1Author captain flint (782544) 11 Apr 12, 16:21
    Comment
    I agree that the key is to distinguish between the name of the town (isn't it also the name of a national park on each side?) and the lowercase word 'falls' used as a descriptive term.

    Niagara Falls is a popular honeymoon destination.
    The falls cover a wide area.


    Notice that when you use the proper noun, not only is it capitalized but it also doesn't take an article.

    We're going to Niagara Falls this summer.

    That Wiki article looks very suspect to me with the word 'the' in front of other proper names as well; is it possible that it was written or edited by a non-native speaker? (And captain flint, did you by any chance mean to write 'I wouldn't normally put an article before the name of a waterfall'?)

    I would expect either

    Horseshoe Falls
    Canadian Falls


    or

    the Horseshoe falls
    the Canadian falls


    analogous to

    Lake Ontario
    the Mississippi river


    Trying to think of more examples, though, makes me realize that I'm not sure there's a one-size-fits-all rule to predict geographical names and descriptive terms; sometimes you may just have to know, and who knows, maybe a couple of these in Canada do have 'the.'

    In general, however, I would not advise anyone learning English to trust Wikipedia. Its factual information is more likely to be right than its English, because so many non-natives mess with it, and not enough native speakers can be bothered to correct them.

    #2Author hm -- us (236141) 11 Apr 12, 17:47
    Comment
    OT: Raudona, ist es eigentlich noch so (wie bei uns damals), dass in der Schule grundsätzlich BE gelehrt wird, und man, wenn man auf AE umsteigt, das superkonsequent tun muss, um nicht anzuecken?
    #3Author Lady Grey (235863) 11 Apr 12, 17:50
    Comment
    #2 It wasn't a mistake. I would normally put an article before the name of a waterfall: the Rhine Falls, the Iguazú Falls, etc. Niagara is perhaps an exception here. I wouldn't shy away from capitalizing 'Falls' either, any more than I would with, say, the Hudson River. That said, there aren't many major waterfalls in Britain, so perhaps BE speakers aren't the best people to judge the issue.
    #4Author captain flint (782544) 11 Apr 12, 18:10
    Comment
    Hmm. We also say just Niagara as another option, so that's the same.

    Similarly I would just say Iguaçu, but maybe that's some faint holdover from Portuguese, or maybe it's just me.

    I think we might say 'the falls on the Rhine' or something instead, if it's not the proper name of a town or national park, but I don't know because I don't think I've even been there.
    #5Author hm -- us (236141) 11 Apr 12, 18:28
    Comment
    *unintentional double post*
    #6Author hm -- us (236141) 11 Apr 12, 18:28
    Comment
    "Was würde ein BE speaker oder ein anderer native speaker, der nicht in der Nähe der Fälle lebt, verwenden?"

    I do live relatively close, but couldn't resist. Seems to me we always use the plural, and we capitalize "Falls" if we are referring to Niagara Falls.

    The Horseshoe Falls are spectacular.
    We're going to Niagara Falls this weekend.
    I haven't been to the Falls in a few years.
    They illuminate the Falls at night.
    I wonder if Niagara Falls still gets as many tourists.
    etc. etc.

    #7Author RES-can (330291) 11 Apr 12, 18:37
    Comment
    Seems to me we always use the plural ....

    We're going to Niagara Falls this weekend.
    I wonder if Niagara Falls still gets as many tourists.

    In den beiden Beispielen ist aber der Ort gemeint, und nicht die Wasserfälle selbst, oder? Daher auch der logische Singular im zweiten Satz.
    #8Author Lady Grey (235863) 11 Apr 12, 18:40
    Comment
    You're right Lady Grey... in actual fact, the two kind of blend together..... Niagara Falls is the town; we see the Falls in Niagara Falls, if you like....
    The Falls are really in the middle of Niagara Falls....
    ..but the proper name for the 2 Falls together is also Niagara Falls.... is that confusing enough LOL???
    #9Author RES-can (330291) 11 Apr 12, 18:58
    Comment
    in actual fact, the two kind of blend together.....
    Right. In most cases it's not important which one you mean. It would be hard to visit one without visiting the other! Also, there are actually 2 cities by that name - Niagara Falls, NY in the United States and Niagara Falls in Ontario, Canada.

    In den beiden Beispielen ist aber der Ort gemeint, und nicht die Wasserfälle selbst, oder?
    [edit] No, I think that most people would assume the waterfall was meant. Many people, especially those that have never been there and live far away, are not even aware of the names of the cities.

    [edit2] LG, maybe I misunderstood you with your use of "Ort"? Peinlich. I assumed you meant the town or city. But if you meant it as "the site in general" or "the region", then yes, "Niagara Falls" can refer to the whole complex of falls, rapids and towns. Then it has a singular "feel" to it.
    #10Author wupper (354075) 11 Apr 12, 19:06
    Comment
    Danke, Leute! Mit "the falls sometimes freeze over", aber "movies are filmed at Niagara Falls" scheint meine Tochter dann auf der sicheren Seite zu sein.

    #3: ...dass in der Schule grundsätzlich BE gelehrt wird, und man, wenn man auf AE umsteigt, das superkonsequent tun muss, um nicht anzuecken? Die Lehrwerke beginnen i.d.R. mit Schauplätzen in England und BE. So in Klasse 6 geht es dann mal nach Schottland, Irland, Wales, wo etwas anders gesprochen wird, Abstecher in die USA gibt es auch. Die USA sind großes Thema in Kl. 8, dann werden auch die sprachlichen Unterschiede erklärt.

    Die Kinder sollen ein Bewusstsein dafür ebtwickeln, welche Unterschiede es in der Aussprache, im Wortschatz und in der Grammatik gibt. Von daher wird ein "Mischen" nicht gern gesehen / gehört. Ich finde das übrigens gut - hier bei LEO finden sich ja Beispiele zuhauf, welche Missverständnisse es geben kann, wenn man die falsche Varietät oder Elemente davon verwendet.

    Übrigens ist in Kl. 9 meist Australien ein großes Thema. In der Oberstufe werden teilweise "different Englishes", insbesondere Indian English, behandelt, das ist aber von Bundesland zu Bundesland und von Schuljahr zu Schuljahr unterschiedlich.
    #11Author Raudona (255425) 11 Apr 12, 21:23
    Comment
    Wupper, mit Ort meinte ich schon die Gemeinde, in der die Fälle liegen. Ich wollte nur nicht Stadt schreiben, denn dafür war mir die Ansiedlung (ich war nur auf der kanadischen Seite) nicht groß genug. ;-)
    #12Author Lady Grey (235863) 11 Apr 12, 22:27
    Comment
    um die Verwirrung ein bisschen einzudämmen wg. Ort/Wasserfall, wie wäre es denn mit den berühmten Reichenbach Falls?

    Holmes and Moriarty have their final, and fatal, encounter at .....

    - the Reichenbach Falls

    - Reichenbach Falls

    - the Reichenbach falls

    ?

    ersteres, oder?
    #13Author Spinatwachtel (341764) 12 Apr 12, 07:55
    Comment
    Piggy-backing on #13, what about "der Rheinfall" oder "die Rheinfälle" am Bodensee? Maybe that's way beyond the scope of this query. It's putting the question back into German.

    @Raudona, Your child is always right! Unless you need leverage to punish for a slip-up. ;-)
    #14Authorcryme (795004) 12 Apr 12, 09:02
    Comment
    Mir scheint jedoch, dass die Tochter Recht hat:

    Is Niagara the highest falls in the world?
    About 500 other waterfalls in the world are "taller" than Niagara. The Angel Falls in Venezuela is tallest at 979 m

    http://www.niagaraparks.com/media/geology-fac...

    The Bridal Veil Falls is named for its appearance. It is located next to the American falls, separated by a small piece of land called Luna Island.
    http://www.niagarafallslive.com/facts_about_n...

    The Victoria Falls constitutes one of the most spectacular natural wonders of the world. ... The Victoria falls is 1 708 meters wide, making it the largest curtain of water in the world.
    http://www.places.co.za/html/vicfalls.html

    Victoria Falls is a spectacular waterfall located in southern Africa on the borders of Zambia and Zimbabwe.
    http://sevennaturalwonders.org/the-original/v...

    Ruby Falls is a must stop for any trip to or through the Chattanooga Area.
    http://rubyfalls.com/

    It's not Niagara Falls, mind you, but Bash Bish Falls ... is the state's highest waterfall.
    http://gonewengland.about.com/cs/berkshiressi...
    #15Author Restitutus (765254) 12 Apr 12, 10:42
    Comment
    Bei uns in NZ wird grundsätzlich der Plural verwendet, da es eben 'falls' sind und nicht 'fall' ist.

    Der bestimmte Artikel wird verwendet, wenn nicht eindeutig ist, was gemeint ist. Gibt es einen Namen weltweit nur einmal wie z.B. Purakaunui Falls muss kein bestimmter Artikel verwendet. Da es Niagara Falls nicht nur einmal gibt, sondern des öfteren ist eine nähere Definition bzw. Einleitung notwendig: Zwei Städte heissen so (je einmal in CDN und in USA) und auch zwei Wasserfälle heißen so (je einmal in NZ und in USA).
    #16Author Ralf-NZ (295035) 13 Apr 12, 12:34
     
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