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BetrifftSignalwörter für Present perfect und Simple past11 Antworten    
Kommentar
Hallo,
könntet ihr mir mal alle Signalwörter für das present perfect und alle Signalwörter für das simple past nennen?
Mir fällt spontan folgendes ein:
Simple Past: yesterday, in 1989
Present Perfect: already, ever, just, yet, since, for, still, so far

Ist davon etwas falsch? Und bitte ergänzt noch weitere.
Danke!
VerfassereinDeutscher06 Sep 09, 20:34
Kommentar
simple past: when (i.Sinne von 'als'), last, on (day), in (month)

pres. perf.: this month/week/year

fällt mir noch ein.
#1VerfasserGibson (418762) 06 Sep 09, 20:46
Kommentar
#2Verfasser.Pünktchen06 Sep 09, 20:57
Kommentar
Danke!
Ich habe jetzt folgende Signalwörter gefunden:
Simple past: yesterday, last (week, month, year), in (2009, October), ago, when, on (Friday)
Present perfect: already, ever, just, yet, since, for, never, still, so far, up to now, recently

Falls es noch mehr gibt, bitte hier posten. Vielen Dank!
Und wenn eins falsch sein sollte, natürlich auch!
#3VerfassereinDeutscher06 Sep 09, 21:04
Kommentar
Ich finde, "recently" ist kein sinnvolles Present-Perfect-Signalwort.
#4VerfasserLondoner(GER)06 Sep 09, 22:52
Kommentar
I'll try my hand at this...

"Recently" can go either way:

I met an old friend recently in the parking lot of Walmart.
She took a trip recently to Italy.
(completed action in the past)

He's been considering switching jobs recently.
It's snowed a lot recently.
(a time span that starts in the past and includes the present moment, ie. not completed)
#5Verfasserwupper (354075) 06 Sep 09, 23:29
Kommentar
I don't know if remembering special words is really a good idea.

I would say that the present perfect deals with something that happened during a time span extending from some specified or unspecified time in the past until 'now'.

It is therefore not used with any time adjunct (adverbial) that excludes the present (regardless of the words used), e.g. "last year", "ten nanoseconds ago", "before the War", "on the day you were born". The mere presence of a word like "yesterday" is not sufficient to exclude the present perfect.

The "relevance" to the present expressed by the present perfect can be for several reasons, e.g.
1) The action or state continues until the present (and may continue into the future); the preterite is not allowed. I have been here since yesterday.
2) Something occured at an unspecified time during a time span lasting to the present. Have you been to India?
3) It is the result in the present that is meant: I have broken your new camera. (It is still broken.)
4) Something happened recently (at an unspecified time). It is news. Merkel has expressed her deep shock and horror . . .
#6VerfasserMikeE (236602) 07 Sep 09, 00:13
Kommentar
@MikeE:

I agree, and most regular contributors here on LEO would probably agree.
The concept of "Signalwoerter" is not a reasonable grammatical concept. Instead, it is merely a didactical concept used in Germany (and maybe elsewhere) that enables people at an early stage of learning English to construct sentences that are likely to be correct. Students at, say, age 12 are likely not to appreciate the abstract concepts the English tense system is based on. At a later stage, however, teachers in Germany talk more about the abstract concepts than about "Signalwoerter".
The tense system is one of the most complex aspects of the English language. I think it makes sense that students start with the short cut that we call "Signalwoerter". (And it also makes sense to tell them at a later stage that "Signalwoerter" are - just a short cut.)
#7VerfasserLondoner(GER)07 Sep 09, 01:13
Kommentar
(continued)

Let's compare Germam and English. If you would like to teach students of the German language to talk about the present, the future, the past, and things that had happened way back in the past (before something else happened), you have to teach them
- Praesens
- Perfekt
- Plusquamperfekt,
and they will be able to construct sentences without making many mistakes.

If you would like to achieve a similar communicative goal in English, you have to teach them
- Simple Present
- Present Progressive
- "will-Future"
- "going-to-Future"
- Present Perfect
- Present Perfect Progressive
- Simple Past
- Past Progressive
- Past Perfect
- Past Perfect Progressive.

Students learning these tenses do not only have to learn rules that tell them when to use which tense, they also have to learn how construct these tenses properly. This is a very complex task and confusing for many.

If they use the concept of "Signalwoerter" they do not have to learn too many rules in the first instance and insted they can concentrate on constructing the tenses properly. At later stage, they can broaden their understanding of the English tense system. So I think, "Signalwoerter" are a very useful didactical concept.

(BTW, the case of the English tense system shows that it is not true that English is easier than German. Well, most regular LEO contributors would probably not claim it is, but many people think so.)
#8VerfasserLondoner(GER)07 Sep 09, 01:32
Kommentar
Mike, es ist natürlich klar, dass die Signalwörter nicht ausreichen, um die englischen Zeiten immer korrekt zu verwenden. Ich stimme Londoner aber zu, dass sie für Anfänger sehr hilfreich sind. Ich kann mich noch gut erinnern, dass ich jahrelang, wenn ich die Erklärung mit 'Auswirkungen in die Gegenwart' vs 'abgeschlossene Handlung' gehört habe, einfach nichts damit anfangen konnte. In fast jedem Fall konnte ich (aus meiner Sicht) eine Wirkung auf die Gegenwart feststellen, und genauso waren aber viele andere Situationen aus meiner Sicht abgeschlossen. Da hilft es enorm, wenn man wenigstens manchmal anhand dieser Signalwörter entscheiden kann. Mittlerweile habe ich ein intuitives Verständnis für dieses 'fremde' Zeitkonzept entwickelt. Aber es kann eben ziemlich lange dauern, bis man dieses Verständnis hat - immerhin habe ich vor über 20 Jahren mit dem Englischlernen angefangen ;-)
#9VerfasserNica (de)07 Sep 09, 05:48
Kommentar
You two are probably better judges of the usefulness of these marker words, but if you learn to recognize the appropriate tense from the use of words like "yesterday", "last year", etc. I would have thought you would be confused by "since yesterday" and would have to learn that it only counts when "yesterday" is used to indicate a time that excludes the present, not a time span lasting from yesterday until the present. So why don't you just remember the bit about "time that excludes the present" and "time span lasting until the present" and forget about the infinite ways of indicating those concepts (except as examples).

I agree about the explanations "Auswirkungen in die Gegenwart" and "abgeschlossene Handlung" not being extremely helpful (the latter is completely misleading), which is why I think you are better off stressing the "time span reaching to the present" and you have to mention the slightly different uses of the present perfect, as in my examples (continuative, experiential, resultative); I would initially leave out the "perfect of recent past" used when reporting news).
#10VerfasserMikeE (236602) 07 Sep 09, 20:57
Kommentar
hejj ihr BABYs xD

i seit echt scheisse .!!

ia wisst nicht mal die signalwörter

vom presentperfectens.??

Thahaha sooo LUSER echt zum schama !!

#11VerfasserTHE best OF the hole WORLD08 Nov 09, 14:18
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