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BetrifftZöpfe44 Antworten    
Kommentar
Was genau sind Zöpfe? Ich finde im LEO "Braid" und "Pigtail" für "Zopf". Sind aber Zöpfe nicht immer geflochtene Dinger, und "Pigtails" ungeflochten? Bzw., wenn jemand seitliche Pigtails hat, sind das im Deutschen auch Zöpfe?
Fragen über Fragen...
VerfasserGacker02 Sep 05, 19:24
Kommentar
Für mich (deutsch) ist das folgendermaßen:
Zopf / Zöpfe sind immer geflochten.
Ungeflochten hinten am Kopf ist es für mich ein Pferdeschwanz, zwei seitliche wären Rattenschwänze.
Aber ich weiß natürlich nicht, ob das jetzt nur meine persönliche Auffassung ist....
#1Verfassere*02 Sep 05, 19:28
Kommentar
Da kann ich e nur zustimmen
#2Verfasservegie02 Sep 05, 19:40
Kommentar
...dann gibt's auch noch "Ponytail" - Pferdeschwanz. Davon kann's aber immer nur einen geben, nämlich hinten, oder? Man könnte nicht sagen "She's got two ponytails" oder so, oder?
Und was ist zopftechnisch der Unterschied zwischen "plait" und "braid"? Kommt es da auf die Dicke oder die Anzahl an?
#3VerfasserGacker02 Sep 05, 19:43
Kommentar
Ich wuerde allerdings im Englischen auch noch plait als Zopf benutzen.

A girl with plaits- ein Maechen mit Zoepfen
#4VerfasserRichard02 Sep 05, 19:44
Kommentar
Ponytail - Pferdeschwanz
Pigtails - Rattenschwänzen
Braids - Zöpfe
#5VerfasserCarly -AE02 Sep 05, 22:47
Kommentar
Hi Carly
Do we have an AE/BE difference here?
ponytail - Pferdeschwanz
bunches - Rattenschwänzen
plaits / pigtails - Zöpfe

At least we agree on ponytail :-)
#6VerfasserMarianne (BE)02 Sep 05, 23:44
Kommentar
Kleiner Hinweis:
Der Plural von "Schwanz" ist "Schwänze" und nicht "Schwänzen".
#7VerfasserRe03 Sep 05, 09:18
Kommentar
Ich hatte als Kind Zöpfe, seitlich über den Ohren, ungeflochten, bei längerem Haar auch mal geflochten. 'Rattenschwänze' ist nicht in meinem aktiven Wortschatz.
#8Verfasserdagmar03 Sep 05, 11:03
Kommentar
I always thought "Rattenschwanz" was that greasy thing that hangs down the back of many an outlaw biker who has his hair short in the front. I certainly have never heard it used in my large circle of hair-fixing girl-mommy friends. Learn something new every day...
#9VerfasserSelkie03 Sep 05, 12:07
Kommentar
@ Selkie
so what would you say in German for what Carly calls "pigtails" and I call "bunches" - unplaited hair held in a band, usually one "bunch" on either side, although there could be several.
#10VerfasserMarianne (BE)03 Sep 05, 12:25
Kommentar
I'd call them "Zöpfe"..
#11VerfasserAustrian03 Sep 05, 12:55
Kommentar
Wenn Männer sich hinten das lange Haar zusammenbinden, spricht man aber nicht von einem Pferdeschwanz, sondern von einem Zopf -- obwohl er nicht geflochten ist.
#12VerfasserSophil03 Sep 05, 13:49
Kommentar
Für geflochtene, runde, Dinger an der Seite kenne ich noch 'Affenschaukel'
#13VerfasserJohannes03 Sep 05, 13:51
Kommentar
@Marianne - I've never heard of "bunches" before, so that must be an AE/BE thing...but I can either plait or braid my hair ;-). Maybe "Rattenschwänze" is a regional/out-dated term, because I've heard it used before, but not recently. Come to think of it, my granddaughter had pigtails the other day, and my daughter DID call them "Zöpfe."
#14VerfasserCarly-AE03 Sep 05, 13:58
Kommentar
Just googled "Kinder friseur Rattenschwänze" and it got a total of FOUR hits!

KleinerSonnenschein.de :: Thema anzeigen - Haare schneiden???... hallo, nickis haare lassen wir vorerst wachsen (sie hat schon 2 süßer rattenschwänze ). ... Frag doch mal beim Friseur nach..... ...
forum.kleinersonnenschein.de/viewtopic.php?p=489392 - 72k - Zusätzliches Ergebnis - Im Cache - Ähnliche Seiten
#15VerfasserCarly-AE03 Sep 05, 14:02
Kommentar
'Bunches' is definitely BE only. (We've had this before, should be in the archive.)

'Pigtails' for me means braids, which is the default AE term. 'Plaits' and the verb 'to plait' are to my ears outdated or at least strongly regional.

I'm not sure there's a general consensus on what to call unbraided hair tied up on on each side of the head, à la Cindy Brady (a character on an old TV show for kids). My mom says 'dog ears' but I don't believe her. (-; I think I'd just go for 'two ponytails' or something. 'Pigtails' might also be used, just because there's not a better word.
#16Verfasserhm -- us03 Sep 05, 20:41
Kommentar
geflochtene Zöpfe = plaits
ungeflochtene Zöpfe (seitlich) = pigtails
ungeflochtene Zöpfe (hinten) = pony tail

All of the above for BE- and plaits does not sound outdated to me at all; it was definitely used when I was at school (which, admittedly is some 10 years ago now, but it's not THAT long ago...)
#17VerfasserRichard03 Sep 05, 21:01
Kommentar
@hm - I wore my hair both braided and in pigtails well into my twenties - pigtails are NOT braids. I even have an American hairstyle book entitled "Beautiful Braids," with many pictures of plaited "hair-dos." Agree that plaits is old-fashioned.

What I don't understand, is why Webster seems to agree with you! :-) If you Google "pigtails" and check out the pictures there, with the exception of one, they all agree with my version.

#18VerfasserCarly03 Sep 05, 21:58
Kommentar
Hi Richard
geflochtene Zöpfe = plaits, pigtails (I wore the things for years) or braids ungeflochtene Zöpfe (seitlich) = bunches (BE) or pigtails

"The first use of the term pigtail was, of course, to refer to the tail of a pig. By the mid-1600s, however, it had taken on the added meaning of tobacco twisted into a thin string (that looked like a pig's tail.)

From there, the term was used to describe a "plait or queue of hair hanging down from the back of the head," especially for sailors and soldiers, in the late 18th and early 19th century. The Oxford English Dictionary cites this usage as early as 1750s. Usually, it was just one pigtail. The further and later nautical use of pigtail refers to a short length of rope (1894.)

The term was also used as a derogatory reference to Chinese in the late 1800s. The pigtail was a mark of political enslavement to the Manchu dynasty, and westerners made fun of the Chinese hair style. The pigtail was abolished in China in 1911 when the Manchu dynasty was overthrown in favor of the Republic.

The term used for one braid was then obviously applied (in plural) to the hairstyle of two braids."
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpigtail.html

ungeflochtene Zöpfe (hinten) = Pferdeschwanz = ponytail

... Plaits does not sound outdated to me at all; it was definitely used when I was at school (which, admittedly was slightly more than 10 years ago now, but it's not THAT long ago...)
:-)))
#19VerfasserMarianne (BE)03 Sep 05, 22:14
Kommentar
Hi again Carly
my pigtails were definitely braided!
#20VerfasserMarianne (BE)03 Sep 05, 22:19
Kommentar
Wie nennt man denn 2 Zoepfe, die zwar ungeflochten sind, aber durch ca. 4 gummis zusammengehalten werden? die sind ja weder geflochten noch sind sie Rattenschwaenze?
#21VerfasserGacker03 Sep 05, 22:27
Kommentar
@Carly

I agree with you ! Pigtails are not braided!!! Does Webster really say so???
I think this time hm - us is finally wrong!!!!

#22VerfasserLillith US ohne pigtails since she was 5!!03 Sep 05, 22:28
Kommentar
Hi Marianne - No matter WHAT Webster's says, "American" pigtails are NOT braided LOL !
#23VerfasserCarly03 Sep 05, 22:32
Kommentar
@ hi Carly
I knew this was going to be an AE/BE thng
No matter WHAT Webster's says
(My) British pigtails are braided!!
LOL
#24VerfasserMarianne (BE)03 Sep 05, 22:37
Kommentar
@Lilith - yeah - Webster's really DOES - I couldn't believe it! states: "tightly braided hair - worn on both sides of head" paraphrased...
#25VerfasserCarly03 Sep 05, 22:40
Kommentar
Since somebody mentioned Cindy Brady: her pigtails were also not braided, oder?

"shee you at the sheeshore Shindy"...
Or was it the "sheeshide"???
#26VerfasserLillith US who has an older sister named Marcia!!03 Sep 05, 22:44
Kommentar
@Lilith - You're right - the Brady Bunch girls wore pigtails - non-braided LOL!
#27VerfasserCarly03 Sep 05, 22:51
Kommentar
@ Lilith
Who on earth is Cindy Brady?
And what does your sister have to do with it?
*confused*
#28VerfasserMarianne (BE)03 Sep 05, 22:53
Kommentar
@Marianne - The Brady Bunch was a popular TV series years ago - and Cindy was one of the bunch. Mom had 3 daughters, met Dad who had 3 sons, and they all became the Brady Bunch. I think Cindy was the youngest.
#29VerfasserCarly03 Sep 05, 22:58
Kommentar
@Marianne
And Jan was the middle one who an older sister named Marcia who would always get all the attention: "Marci, Marcia, Marcia! Always Marcia"
#30VerfasserLillith US Big Brady Bunch fan!!03 Sep 05, 23:04
Kommentar
@Marianne - If you're interested, here's a link to the one and only:

http://www.bradyworld.com/

NOTE: pigtails aren't braided LOL!
#31VerfasserCarly03 Sep 05, 23:06
Kommentar
@Lilith - ME TOO! And boy, was I jealous of Jan's and Marcia's LONG, STRAIGHT hair! My curly mop was totally "out."
#32VerfasserCarly03 Sep 05, 23:11
Kommentar
@Marianne
The Brady Bunch is a major piece of Americana!
Probably the best show to ever run on tv in this country!
Do you really mean to tell me that y'all do not have it in England ???
#33VerfasserLillith US03 Sep 05, 23:17
Kommentar
@Carly

Do you have an older sister too?? Please, do not tell me that her name is Marcia also!!!!
Luckily, although I am a middle child, I do not have a little sister who talks with a lisp!! Just a little brother... Who could be a little pest, but was/is also very sweet!
#34VerfasserLillith US Nevrotic middle child03 Sep 05, 23:22
Kommentar
@Carly
Thanks for the link
Hey! the girls in the Brady bunch have "bunches" :-)

@Lilith
Obviously a huge gap in my education
#35VerfasserMarianne (BE)03 Sep 05, 23:23
Kommentar
@Lilith - Nope, I'm the oldest of 3 girls - always wanted and older brother! My sisters didn't lisp, either - the youngest was a real pest at times, but grew up to be one of my closest friends!

@Marianne - LOL!
#36VerfasserCarly03 Sep 05, 23:28
Kommentar
If you can stand one more opinion....

I used to wear them too - pigtails that is - unbraided.
Braids were, well braided, either one over each ear or one in the back -> when the ponytail is braided it because a (single) braid.
Plaits sounds old-fashioned to me too.

@Gacker: pigtails with 4 elastics are still pigtails (as long as they aren't braided!)

:) :) :)
#37VerfasserRES-can04 Sep 05, 01:37
Kommentar
Does anybody know how you would say a "French braid" in German?
#38VerfasserLillith US04 Sep 05, 02:08
Kommentar
französicher Zöpfe, is what my girls tell me they want. A case of Denglish perhaps? See http://www.glamour.de/glamour/4/2/content/03737/page2.php

I believe the eldest Brady sister was called Marsha rather than Marcia.

And just to weigh in on this one, pigtails are NOT braided in the US and we used them to refer to those made with short hair. My long ones were always called ponytails by my mother at least. What a hairy topic.
#39VerfasserSelkie04 Sep 05, 08:04
Kommentar
@Marianne

I agree that pigtails can also refer to plaited hair- I would have said that it is a matter of length, whether geflochtene Zöpfe (seitlich) are referred to as pigtails or plaits. "Bunches" I would have identified as perhaps slightly shorter & bushier than pigtails- but then again, I never had either ;)

some pictures of "bunches" can be found here (all from UK sites):
http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=bunches hair&hl=en&hs=KRp&lr=&cr=countryUK|countryGB&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&sa=N&tab=wi
http://www.handbag.com/galleries/gallery/style_trends/hair_trends/retro/MemberID...
http://www.widemedia.com/fashionuk/fashion/catwalk-archive/afw-march97/hair.html
#40VerfasserRichard04 Sep 05, 09:51
Kommentar
@ RES-can
Just to show that "plaits" are by no means old-fashioned:
"Teens
Hair & Beauty Bible
Pretty Plaits
Once you know how to plait your hair, you can try loads of different styles. Try side plaits, pigtails, high plaits or lots of little ones!"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/teens/girls/fashionandbeauty/bible/hair/pretty_plaits.shtml
and very recent comments from mums on the subject:
http://chat.dailymail.co.uk/dailymail/threadnonInd.jsp?forum=261&thread=9705746...

I think that just about exhausts my input on this one - a fun discussion everyone, enjoy the rest of the weekend :-)
#41VerfasserMarianne (BE)04 Sep 05, 12:06
Kommentar
Eine wirklich schöne Diskussion! Hier noch meine etymologische Weisheit zur Frage nach dem Rattenschwanz: meines Wissens nach heißen so die Zöpfe kleiner Mädchen mit dünnem Haar, dem Aussehen nach einem Rattenschwanz nicht unähnlich.
#42VerfasserWieland04 Sep 05, 12:50
Kommentar
@Selkie - A German beauty parlor once styled my hair into a "französischer Zopf," so your girls know what they are talking about :-)
#43VerfasserCarly04 Sep 05, 13:09
Kommentar
@ Selkie

Thank you! :-)
#44VerfasserLillith US04 Sep 05, 21:16
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