To what extent are these a nest of false or semi-false friends?
This recent discussion Siehe auch: Einbürgerungswillige
was unfortunately largely spoiled by misleading posts and personal attacks, so I don't really want to keep posting there, but I wondered if we could try once more, and this time include other related words as well, with a title that would make it more findable in the archive.
To recap: Some of us English speakers had asked if -willig
to immigrate, that is, prepared to do so given certain conditions which might or might not yet be fulfilled, amenable or agreeable to the idea, able to be persuaded;
(2b) actively seeking
to immigrate, applying or planning to apply for citizenship.
wupper found this definition:
-wil|lig - 1. drückt in Bildungen mit Substantiven - seltener mit Verben (Verbstämmen) - aus, dass die beschriebene Person zu etwas bereit ist, etwas gerne machen will: ausreise-, einsatz-, rückkehr-, verhandlungswillig.
2. drückt in Bildungen mit Substantiven oder Verben (Verbstämmen) aus, dass die beschriebene Person gerne etwas mit sich machen lässt, dazu bereit ist: impf-, therapiewillig.
I'm just not sure that's very helpful, because the difference between Duden senses 1 and 2 seems to be only whether the person does it themself or has it done by someone else, not between whether they're prepared to do it IF some condition is fulfilled or whether they definitely want to do it no matter what.
And while several people tried to answer helpfully (please see, e.g., #27-28, #32-36, #41, #46, #48) it was hard, for me at least, to come away with a clear consensus. (Okay, partly I got bored with all the juvenile insults, but still.)
Some people seemed more inclined to assume that 'willig' meant going ahead and taking action and didn't imply any prior conditions, e.g.,>>Wenn ich nicht bereit bin, die notwendigen erkannten Konsequenzen zu ziehen, dann bin ich eben nicht willig.
—Rheiner #46>>I don't think, in any event, that 'willing to become naturalised' makes much sense. One doesn't wait willingly but passively for the government to come and offer you naturalisation: you have to take action yourself, 'seek naturalisation' as it were.
But I'm not sure anyone ever really responded to this point:>>You can
want something without being
willing to do what it takes to get it, just as you can be
willing to do something without particularly
wanting to do it.
That's also how I understand it from an English speaker's perspective. In the context of immigration, I can definitely see how some people would be willing to immigrate IF they could do it without losing their other citizenship, or ALTHOUGH they didn't really want to give up their other citizenship. But that wouldn't necessarily mean that they wanted to immigrate, much less that they were actively seeking to or applying, just that they had thought about it. So I wonder now if the difference is that, in English at least, being willing can actually imply overcoming a certain reluctance, being (only just) persuadable.
I'm also still puzzled about individual words ending in -willig
. Do some of them really mean 'wanting' or 'seeking,' but not all? Does the meaning always depend on context?
For example,Siehe auch: willing to work - arbeitswillig
vs.>>"Arbeitswillig" is typically used by or of job seekers. They aren't just passively agreeable to being offered a position; they are actively looking. The English equivalent is surely "job-seekers," though that's not what LEO gives.
—mabr #34>>it means 'actively seeking work' (I have translated surveys where this meaning is made quite clear).
Thanks in advance for any more constructive contributions.