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    "click on" oder "click onto" ?


    "click on" oder "click onto" ?


    es geht um den Ausdruck "click on a button". Ich hielt das bis jetzt für korrektes Englisch, wurde heute aber eines besseren belehrt. Angeblich müsse "click onto a button" verwendet werden.

    Laut Google liefert "click on a button" 23.900.000 Treffer, während "click onto a button" nur 36.800 Treffer erzielt.

    Der Lektor nannte mir folgendes Beispiel: "sit on a table" -> "auf dem Tisch sitzen", "sit onto a table" -> "am Tisch sitzen". Analog verhielte es sich auch mit "click". Allerdings sei die Verwendung von "on" durchaus in den allgemeinen Sprachgebrauch eingegangen.

    Meinungen, Kommentare ?
    Authortobias1977 (774168) 29 Nov 12, 03:30
    Hi, tobias. I think your editor is wrong. Click on is what one says and sit onto a table sounds suspiciously Denglish. If we English speakers made a distinction routinely between "sit on a table" and "sit onto a table", we would presumably not struggle with the distinction in German. You can climb onto a table, but that "onto" doesn't necessarily work with other verbs. In my opinion click and sit don't work with "onto".
    #1Author Amy-MiMi (236989) 29 Nov 12, 03:49
    Agree with Amy regarding "click on a button".

    I find "sit onto a table" for "am Tisch sitzen" just plain weird, from both English and German perspectives. The phrase yields all of 338 results in a Google search and the sites don't look like anything I'd rely on for proper usage of English.

    If you search for "sit at the table" (AFAIK the only possible translation for "am Tisch sitzen") with a UK qualifier, you get 9,880,000 hits. If you search for "sit onto the table", you get exactly 0 (!) hits.
    #2Author Pippa G (860829) 29 Nov 12, 05:12
    Agree with what they say. Also, why not simply "click a button"?
    #3Author Carullus (670120) 29 Nov 12, 06:54
    I agree with previous comments. I would actually "press a/the button" / "push a/the button".

    Wo befindet sich dieser "Lektor", tobias?
    #4Author Ffive (876338) 29 Nov 12, 08:01
    I assumed Tobias was clicking with his mouse or touchpad. Not?
    #5Author Pippa G (860829) 29 Nov 12, 08:20
    "sit on a table" = auf einem Tisch sitzen, sich auf einen Tisch hinsetzen
    "sit at a table" = an einem Tisch sitzen, sich an einen Tisch hinsetzen

    "sit onto a table" = not correct. You use 'onto' or 'into' with certain verbs that describe a movement of your entire body from one place to another:

    He climbed on(to) the table.
    She got in(to) the bus.
    The cat jumped onto my lap.

    You don't sit onto or sit into things, as when you sit you are just changing position, not moving your whole body from A to B.

    "I clicked onto the button" = not correct. If anything that would mean "Ich klickte mich auf den Knopf".
    #6Author CM2DD (236324) 29 Nov 12, 08:38
    (Way OT: I just LOLed at "Ich klickte mich auf den Knopf." That just made my long day. Thanks CM2DD.)
    #7Author Ffive (876338) 29 Nov 12, 08:50
    You use 'onto' or 'into' with certain verbs that describe a movement of your entire body from one place to another

    Ist das wirklich streng auf solche Fälle beschränkt? Ich hätte vermutet, man kann auch sagen:
    Put your clothes into the wardrobe!
    We put the cups onto the table.
    She looked into the cabinet.

    Mag sein, dass das alles auch mit einfachem in bzw. on geht oder sogar besser ist, aber falsch sind diese Beispiele doch nicht, oder?
    #8Author dirk (236321) 29 Nov 12, 08:54
    #8 I was thinking of 'sit onto' and why that doesn't work - because when you are talking about bodily movements, 'onto' means moving your entire body. Of course you can also use 'into' and 'onto' in other contexts.

    ('Put into/onto' sounds a bit odd to me in those examples.)
    #9Author CM2DD (236324) 29 Nov 12, 08:59
    #0: "click on" oder "click onto"?

    "Click onto" sounds completely wrong.
    #10AuthorKinkyAfro (587241) 29 Nov 12, 11:13
    @#8. "put into/onto" are fine in American English, in those contexts.
    #11Author Ffive (876338) 29 Nov 12, 11:20
    Put your clothes into the wardrobe!
    That's what most of us would say, but maybe grammarians would say it should be "into" - let's wait and see :-)
    #12Authormikefm (760309) 29 Nov 12, 13:43
    Put your clothes into the wardrobe!
    That's what most of us would say,

    Most of us would say what? I'd say "Put your clothes in the wardrobe!"
    #13Author SD3 (451227) 29 Nov 12, 14:31
    Oh! I got it the wrong way round :-((((((


    Put your clothes in the wardrobe!
    That's what most of us would say, but maybe grammarians would say it should be "into" - let's wait and see :-)
    #14Authormikefm (760309) 29 Nov 12, 14:39
    'Ich setze mich an den Tisch.' und
    'Ich sitze am Tisch.'
    drücken im Deutschen zwei verschiedene Sachen aus. Das erste beschreibt den Übergang von der stehenden in die sitzende Position (üblicherweise bewegt sich hier der ganze Körper) und mit dem zweiten Satz wird die Tätigkeit des Sitzens / das Ergebnis des Hinsetzens beschrieben. Oder irre ich mich?
    Allerdings würde ich diesen Unterschied auch im Englischen nicht durch ein onto ausdrücken…
    #15Author Antelope (12048) 29 Nov 12, 14:55
    Oxford sagt "click on"
    Merriam Webster sagt "click on"

    In der Diskussion hast du gewonnen. Ich habe in einem kanadischen Softwareunternehmen gearbeitet und dabei tausende Seiten Doku gelesen. Dabei ist mir immer "click on" oder auch nur "click" begegnet und niemals "click onto".
    #16Authorgrznfzn (889575) 29 Nov 12, 14:56
    @ mikefm #14

    Unser Lehrer (mit entsprechenden Grammatiken in Hinterhand) hat uns mit "in" vs "into" entsetzlich getriezt, wobei wir "put" als absolute Ausnahme lernen mussten ("put" verlange halt immer "in", auch wenn man logischerweise "into" sagen müsste). Aber warum es eine Ausnahme ist, - das weiß der Geier.

    Und von hm--us habe ich gerade gelernt, dass es sich auch bei "go" im Sinne vom deutschen "gehören" ähnlich verhält:

    That goes in the top drawer.

    Allerdings kann bei letzterem eine unterschiedliche Sichtweise eine Rolle spielen: Engl. statisch (der richtige Platz, in der Schublade), während wir den Blick auf die Aktion richten: zielgerichtete Bewegung. Aber ich denke, bei "put" haben auch alle Englischsprachigen die Aktion vor Augen. Es ist also eine andere Baustelle als "go in".

    Aber vielleicht weiß ja noch jemand etwas.
    #17Author Ingeborg (274140) 29 Nov 12, 15:41
    I recommend against relying on #11, at least for onto.
    #18Author Jurist (US) (804041) 29 Nov 12, 19:55
    more about "in/into"; I think, put takes "into" at least more commonly, in "put the fork into the lamb...", "put the fork into the soil..." e.g. or is that "just me"? The action is somehow emphasized/described?
    #19Authormikefm (760309) 29 Nov 12, 20:59
    Here's the other recent thread:

    related discussion: the luggage that goes onto the plane ...

    I too think CM2DD's description in #9 is less misleading than #11. 'Onto' and 'into' are in many contexts at least considerably less idiomatic than 'in' and 'on.'

    This is a very tricky thing to try to explain, so it doesn't surprise me that even advanced ESL instruction may not cover it well. (I wonder what that person whose name I forget and whose book I don't have with me has to say about it. Michael, Martin, Greenberg, something? Someone please read my fuzzy mind ...)

    But since dirk asks, no, I probably wouldn't use 'into' or 'onto' in any of his examples in #8. They're not wrong in the sense of unthinkable, but they definitely stand out as not typical. CM2DD is probably right that with an ordinary verb like 'put,' an ordinary object, and an expected place, we would normally just use 'in' and 'on,' at least in normal conversation as opposed to unusually formal diction.

    >>Put your clothes into the wardrobe!

    To me it's really more idiomatic to save 'into' for things where the mental image of the final location is more emphatically 'inside,' like closing something up safely or tightly inside something else that's smaller, cozier, deeper. Better examples:

    Put the test tubes into the centrifuge.
    He reached down into his pocket.
    She fitted the last mamushka doll into the nest.

    >>We put the cups onto the table.

    There it's really more idiomatic to save 'onto' for things that require more lifting and/or upward movement.

    Can you lift the patient onto the operating table?
    I can't get this heavy box from the floor (up) onto the bed.
    The cat jumped onto the desk.

    >>She looked into the cabinet.

    That, too. would sound more idiomatic with a different word expressing more the idea of depth, darkness, difficulty, etc.

    He peered into the dim wardrobe but couldn't make out anything inside it.
    She looked (down) into the well to see if she could see the bottom.
    I wasn't aware of the problem, but give me a day or two and I'll look into it.

    At least in AE, you can also use 'inside' and 'on top of' as prepositions, and those tend to be more idiomatic with everyday things at home.

    You can just set the mugs there on top of the microwave.
    Put all your toys and clothes inside your closet, not lying around out in the open all over everything!
    No, no, I meant inside the buffet, not on top of it.
    I even looked inside all the cabinets and drawers, not just here on the counter where it usually stays, but I still can't find the wine stopper.
    Actually that bowl usually goes up on top of the cabinet, not inside it.

    (Again, with 'goes' meaning 'sits/stays/rests,' which is how we understand 'belongs,' unlike 'gehören' with direction which takes the accusative.)

    Hope that helps at least somewhat. I'm actually not sure how to express the difference in German; would you maybe need to add a word like 'hinein' or 'hinauf'?
    #20Author hm -- us (236141) 29 Nov 12, 21:09

    In den meisten Fällen scheint mir dass im Deutschen der Unterschied mit dem Verb deutlich gemacht wird:
    sitzen - setzen, liegen - legen, stehen - stellen, etc

    #21Author her man (774377) 29 Nov 12, 23:27
    "Click/push/press the button" would do the job in almost any pomp, ducks, and circumstances. As "click the link", "check the mark", "stay there" would work perfectly.
    #22Author TessaZo (893413) 30 Nov 12, 00:59
    Vielen Dank für die vielen detaillierten Antworten :-) ! Gut, dann schließe ich mich nun definitiv der Mehrheitsmeinung "click on a button" an und bedanke mich für die Infos.

    @Ffive: Die Lektorin ist Deutsche, lebte allerdings lange Zeit in den USA und hat dort auch Englisch studiert.
    #23Authortobias1977 (774168) 03 Dec 12, 01:39
    @hm--us: Danke für #20! Das ist wirklich hilfreich.
    #24Author dirk (236321) 03 Dec 12, 09:11
    Ich hab das Thema irgendwie im Kopf behalten, und mir sind dabei einige native-speaker Posts in Foren aufgefallen, die "click AT the button" geschrieben haben. Ich fand und finde das irgendwie daneben und falsch, wollte es aber trotzdem erwähnen :)
    #25Author TessaZo (893413) 03 Dec 12, 22:17
    For me, click at the button would mean, when you see the button, it's time to click.
    Or, possibly: Take a wild shot at clicking in the general direction of the button.
    #26Author Jurist (US) (804041) 03 Dec 12, 22:40
 ­ automatisch zu ­ ­ umgewandelt