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  • Betrifft

    Verneinung von ought to

    Kommentar
    Gibt es eigentlich eine Verneinung von "ought to"
    (z. B. don't ought to oder oughtn't to)?
    Mir ist klar, dass man mit "shouldn't" arbeiten kann, aber es interessiert mich einfach theoretisch.

    Vielen Dank schon mal für Eure Antworten
    Verfassersteffi70 (188824) 10 Apr. 13, 16:29
    Kommentar
    ought not
    #1Verfasser grela (567089) 10 Apr. 13, 16:47
    Kommentar
    ought not - genau.

    Dann aber darauffolgend, wie ich gesagt hätte: ohne 'to'-Infinitiv. Nun googelte ich kurz und fand viele Stellen, die mit 'to' aufgeführt sind. Ist beides möglich?
    You ought not to see her.
    You ought not see her.
    ?
    #2VerfasserBraunbärin (757733) 10 Apr. 13, 19:06
    Kommentar
    Here's a description of what's considered standard in BE:
    http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/engl...

    I would say that many people are more familiar with the 'should' construction, though, and might not use 'ought not' at all, or might not be sure how to use it.
    #3VerfasserCM2DD (236324) 10 Apr. 13, 19:21
    Kommentar
    ich habe auch gedacht, dass es ohne 'to'-Infinitiv verwendet wird.

    - will natürlich das Oxford Dictionary nicht anzweifeln, finde aber hier http://www.englishpage.com/modals/oughtto.html auf einer TOEFL Test Vorbereitungsseite folgendes:

    Notice "Ought not"
    Remember that "ought to" loses the "to" in the negative. Instead of "ought not to," we say "ought not."
    #4Verfasser grela (567089) 10 Apr. 13, 19:43
    Kommentar
    (Edit. Falsch gelesen.)
    #5Verfasser Gibson (418762) 10 Apr. 13, 19:46
    Kommentar
    Merriam-Webster say that the 'to' is a question of choice in AE, though also says that a form with 'should' is preferred.

    The negative forms ought not and oughtn't are often used without a following to. ...
    It ought not (to) make any difference.
    http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/ought

    The British dictionaries all just have negative examples using 'to'. I would say that englishpage.com's advice is wrong in either language.
    #6VerfasserCM2DD (236324) 10 Apr. 13, 20:03
    Kommentar
    This is a shibboleth, so I was surprised to find the discussion had taken a different course from what I expected.

    The most usual negation of 'ought to' is 'didn't ought to', but that is regarded as incorrect by the purists*.

    I have never in my life heard 'ought not' without the 'to', and I would certainly call that incorrect.

    *because 'ought' is already technically a past tense, and you can't in theory put 'did' in front of it. And unlike 'used to', where you can, and I do, say 'didn't use to', there's no way of getting the pastness out of 'ought'.
    #7Verfasser escoville (237761) 10 Apr. 13, 20:04
    Kommentar
    *didn't ought to is definitely non-standard. In fact, I can't remember ever having heard it, but it has a kind of Cockney twang when I say it to myself, so maybe that's where escoville gets it from.

    "ought not" without the to - I've never heard that either, and it definitely isn't standard. Mind you, I think I might have heard oughtn't without a to somewhere. "You oughtn't do that" sounds old-fashioned and has a vaguely northern ring to it, but I can't really place it.

    ought not to is the only version I know for certain and the only one I'd use. But like most people, I'd usually say "shouldn't" instead.


    #8Verfasser captain flint (782544) 10 Apr. 13, 20:18
    Kommentar
    I have never in my life heard 'ought not' [or 'oughtn't', plus verb] without the 'to', and I would certainly call that incorrect.
    [
    /i]
    I agree. (BE)
    #9VerfasserHecuba - UK (250280) 10 Apr. 13, 20:21
    Kommentar
    Englishpage.com could also change that odd 'Notice "Ought not"' into 'Note on "ought not"'.
    #10VerfasserCM2DD (236324) 10 Apr. 13, 20:27
    Kommentar
    [native AE speaker]

    "didn't ought" sounds terrible. If I've ever heard it, it was a line from Cletus on the Simpsons (no offense to BE speakers who use this form--just saying...)

    "ought not, oughn't" without "to" occurs in AE. Doesn't sound wrong. Though grammatically it would seem incorrect.
    #11Verfasseraden27 (30600) 10 Apr. 13, 22:14
    Kommentar
    Cletus is British? :-)
    #12VerfasserCM2DD (236324) 10 Apr. 13, 22:22
    Kommentar
    I've heard the construction "shouldn't oughta done that" more often than "didn't ought to". I may have even used "shouldn't oughta done that" myself from time to time. I think it's probably Southern-speak.

    I'm not recommending it, it is non-standard, but it is handy for mock-scolding someone.
    http://www.amazon.com/You-Shouldnt-Oughta-Don...
    #13Verfasser svaihingen (705121) 11 Apr. 13, 00:04
    Kommentar
    Vielen Dank für Eure interessanten Antworten.
    Vor allem vielen Dank CM2DD für den Link zum Oxford Dictionary. Das hat mir sehr geholfen.

    #14Verfassersteffi70 (188824) 11 Apr. 13, 09:15
    Kommentar
    #15VerfasserValeriana Ebonstar (894625) 11 Apr. 13, 09:35
    Kommentar
    Of course, "should not" is the usual way. But in AE there is nothing wrong with "ought not." I agree with #11--excepting its final sentence--and the other posts in agreement (e.g., ## 1, 2, 4).
    #16VerfasserHappyWarrior (964133) 31 Mai 16, 13:30
     
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