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    Drop kick in different varieties of football (continued from Punt)


    Drop kick in different varieties of football (continued from Punt)

    This is in reply to Siehe auch: Punt - #73 in the discussion on "punt" (Englisch gesucht)

    We seemed to be getting a bit off topic (and the discussion seemed to be in the wrong forum anyway) but Rob C. asked for documentation, so I am continuing here, since there are language and cultural issues.

    " If there has ever been a case of a player punting or kicking the ball after calling and receiving a fair catch, please document it for us."

    I don't know much about American football, but there is a list of confirmed attempts (four successful) at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_catch_kick...
    Apparently, the last confirmed attempt was in 2008, and the last successful attempt was in 1976.

    I would also query the statement "The drop kick was dropped from US football in the 1930s."
    As I say, I know practically nothing about US football but I assume we are talking, for instance, about NFL rules (http://www.nfl.com/rulebook ), where it still seems to be alive and well.

    And we seem to have youtube videos as late as 2012.

    2006: Successful drop kick by Doug Flutie (0:04): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S_7TT2a1H4
    2012: Successful drop kick by Ben Grogan (0.14): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICnqec6KO48
    2012 Unsuccessful drop kick by Drew Brees (0:06): http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/29...

    Before that, the last drop kick conversion seems to have been by Ray McLean in 1941.

    VerfasserMikeE (236602) 01 Sep. 13, 21:24
    Sorry that should be "Bob C."
    For some reason, I can't edit.
    #1VerfasserMikeE (236602) 01 Sep. 13, 21:30
    Wenn die Verteidigung nicht wirkungsvoll zurück gehalten wird ist der Kicker tot! ;-)
    #2Verfasser jo-SR (238182) 01 Sep. 13, 22:15
    I think there was some confusion in the previous thread over exactly what 'drop kick' means. For me it's any kick where you first let go of the ball and then kick it, as opposed to a kick when someone else is still holding it or it's resting on the ground. So that's why I think of a punt in American football as one kind of drop kick, even though there's only an instant while the ball is in free fall before it's kicked. (I assume -- now that I think of it, I'm not sure I've ever seen a punt in slow motion, but I don't think you can kick the ball while still holding it, can you?)

    But evidently in the rules, that term may only be used for the kind MikeE describes where it bounces on the ground, or falls to the ground, first? I can't even picture that with an American-shaped football -- I wouldn't think you could predict which way it would bounce. And surely you couldn't get as good a kick; it would probably turn out like an onside kick, low and on the ground and not going very far on purpose?

    I don't think we're talking about after calling a fair catch, because when you do that you voluntarily down the ball. I assumed the examples were probably on a conversion attempt where they didn't line up with a kicker, but the quarterback had the option to throw or run for 2 points, or kick for 1 point. I don't see why that wouldn't work, but I don't think it would mean a drop kick where you let the ball fall to the ground, only that the quarterback kicked the ball, which is unusual but evidently not unheard of.

    That is, I believe Flutie and Grogan are QBs; never heard of Brees.
    #3Verfasser hm -- us (236141) 01 Sep. 13, 23:36
    hm, "I can't even picture that with an American-shaped football . . ."

    It's not easy, but here is a demonstration of a drop kick in rugby (where a drop kick is also used for a restart):

    I don't think there's much difference in the shape of the ball (though the American ball may be lighter and more inflated - which might make it more difficult).

    I think the drop kick conversion is used in rugby when speed is essential. I imagine the reason in NFL football is similar but the occasion arises much less often.
    #4VerfasserMikeE (236602) 02 Sep. 13, 01:08
    Slightly OT, I have been wondering which rules really make American football so different from rugby union. I think it must be the whole idea of plays and downs, and perhaps the use of forward passes (which are forbidden in rugby). When looking around, I was most surprised to find this American rugby coach showing how to practise passing
    The exercise seems to practise forward passing.
    I realize it is only a drill, but to me the important thing to practise is passing backward (or laterally) while running forward.

    The "typical" rugby backward passing, with the players strung out like a line of geese, is shown in some of these videos:

    #5VerfasserMikeE (236602) 02 Sep. 13, 01:39
    And let’s not forget Australian football:

    I remember the good old drop kick, but that went out of fashion some time back in the 60s - at about the same time as the chest mark:
    #6Verfasser Stravinsky (637051) 02 Sep. 13, 09:57
    Mike, so, as I say, there has never in all NFL history ever been a case of a player calling a fair catch and then drop kicking the ball or doing anything with it other than hand it to the referee. A fair catch ends the play. Period.

    According to the Wikipedia article you cite, after a fair catch, if anyone wants to drop kick, the opposing teams must line up and start a new play.

    One of the many things that makes NFL football really different from rugby is that an NFL football is passed overhand. Long distances. Not possible with a rugby ball.
    #7Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 14 Sep. 13, 18:02
    And there's a huge difference between rugby and NFL footballs.
    #8Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 15 Sep. 13, 03:14
    For me it's any kick where you first let go of the ball and then kick it, as opposed to a kick when someone else is still holding it or it's resting on the ground.

    Not so. In Rugby (Union and League) it's a kick where you let go of the ball, let it bounce, and then kick it. In rugby, a 'drop goal' is a goal resulting from such a kick.
    #9Verfasser escoville (237761) 15 Sep. 13, 12:15
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