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Baked Beans - Rezepte gesucht! Recipes Wanted!

68 Antworten   
Kommentar
Ich möchte gerne ein paar Rezepte für Baked Beans sammeln und ausprobieren - gerne auch Varianten, in denen sie wirklich im Backofen gegart werden.

Who knows recipes for home-made baked beans?
VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 13 Jan 17, 21:10
Kommentar
Do you mean cooking the beans from scratch? Many dishes with baked beans are just based on opening a can.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baked_beans

UK canned (BE 'tinned') baked beans apparently are more tomatoey, whereas US taste includes pork and molasses. I don't know whether you could get either kind very easily in Germany.

https://www.cookscountry.com/taste_tests/464-...

There are various recipes for easy baked-bean casseroles that start with the canned kind and just add a few ingredients for seasoning. One of mine adds smoked sausage, vegetable oil, chopped onions, allspice, brown sugar, and prepared mustard with horseradish. Another adds bacon, onion, ketchup, brown sugar, Tabasco sauce, and prepared mustard. Another uses bacon, onion, ketchup, syrup, dry mustard, chili powder, Tabasco, and Worcestershire. (If these all sound like 1950s to 1970s, that's because that's when this style of food was popular.)

I also have a couple of recipes for homemade pork and beans, starting with dried navy beans and soaking them overnight, then boiling with baking soda and salt pork for 10 minutes, then adding onion, molasses, sugar, dry mustard, and pepper, and baking at a low temperature (300° F) for several hours, continuing to add some of the reserved cooking liquid gradually.

I could copy the amounts for you if any of that sounds like you would like to try it, but it's not actually a dish I'm very fond of myself -- too sweet for a vegetable.
#1Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 13 Jan 17, 21:50
Kommentar
One of my recipes from scratch was called 'Durgin Park's Boston Baked Beans,' so I searched for that online and apparently it was a home-style restaurant in Boston. Here's a similar recipe from the Boston Globe website, which should be an authentic source (and not as full of advertising and cookies as many commercial recipe sites, which should often be avoided).

https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/food-di...

However, it uses bacon instead of salt pork. For comparison, here's mine from my mom's recipe notebook, from recipes copied mostly in the 1960s and 70s.

1 lb. dried navy or pea beans
6 cups water
1/2 tsp. baking soda
1/2 lb. salt pork, cut into 1/2-inch pieces
1 small onion, peeled
1/3 c. molasses
1/4 c. sugar
1 tsp. dry mustard
1/4 tsp. pepper

Soak beans overnight in a large bowl in the 6 cups water.

Place beans with soaking water in a large kettle; add baking soda. Bring to a boil, lower heat, and continue boiling for 10 minutes. Drain in colander over large bowl, reserving liquid.

Place salt pork, onion, and beans in a 2-quart bean pot or casserole. Combine molasses, sugar, dry mustard, pepper, and 1 cup of the reserved liquid. Pour over beans and stir thoroughly. Add just enough reserved liquid to cover beans (about 1 cup). Cover casserole and bake in a slow oven (300° F) for 2 hours.

Add remaining 1 cup liquid and stir thoroughly. Continue baking an additional 1 1/2 to 2 hours or until beans are tender and liquid is absorbed. Bake uncovered the last half hour if you wish.

(Ed.: Not sure those amounts of liquid add up, but that's what it says. Maybe the beans have already absorbed half the original volume.)

_________________

Here's one more, just called 'Homemade Pork and Beans.'

1 lb. dried navy or Great Northern beans
2 qts. water
1/4 lb. salt pork
3/4 c. unsulfured molasses
1 6-oz. can tomato paste
1 tsp. salt
1 tsp. dry mustard

Rinse beans in cold water and drain. Place in large saucepan and add water. Bring to a boil and boil 2 minutes. Remove from heat; cover loosely and let stand 1 hour. (This takes the place of overnight soaking.)

Return to heat and bring to a boil; cover and simmer gently over low heat for 1 hour, or until beans are tender. Drain beans and reserve liquid.

Spoon beans into a 2 1/2-quart bean pot or casserole. Cut through surface of salt pork every 1/2 inch, making cuts about 1 inch deep. Bury pork in beans.

Mix 2 cups reserved bean liquid with molasses, tomato paste, salt, and mustard; pour over beans. Cover and bake at 300° F for 5 to 6 hours. Check beans about once an hour and add additional hot bean liquid or water if the beans become dry.

At the beginning of the cooking time the beans should be covered with liquid; at the end of the cooking time beans should be very moist and covered with a syrupy liquid.

Yield: 8 servings.

_________________

Hope that helps. (-:
#2Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 13 Jan 17, 22:24
Kommentar
That helps indeed, hm--us!

Since I don't like the sauce from most canned brands, I would like to make my own. I have a recipe, but would like to try out more variations, and do it in the oven.

Thanks a lot!
#3VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 13 Jan 17, 22:31
Kommentar
Well, if what you don't like about the canned sauce is that it's too sweet, I don't know if any of these will be any better. Though it might be better than the British-style more tomatoey sauce -- I hope so. (-:

I also don't know if you can get molasses, and I see that salt pork isn't in LEO. It's just a very fatty piece of salt-cured pork, not for eating but just for adding flavor while cooking. Maybe someone can suggest, or you already know, a rough equivalent.
#4Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 13 Jan 17, 22:36
Kommentar
Vorab:
Selbst gemacht habe ich die noch nie, sondern nur ab und zu eine Dose geöffnet. Kinder mögen auch nur die Original-Version von Heinz, da sind vermutlich Aromen drin, die sie kennen.
Ich habe auch in meiner nicht gerade kleinen Kochbuchsammlung nur zwei Rezepte für Boston Baked Beans gefunden, das erste ist aus dem 1980 ins Deutsche übersetzten Time-Life-Kochbuch „Amerikanische Küche“ (ursprünglich aus dem Jahr 1968), das zweite aus dem New Step-by-Step Cook Book der britischen Zeitschrift Good Housekeeping aus dem Jahr 1993.
 
 
1. 
1 kg weiße Bohnen, 3 mittelgroße Zwiebeln, 2 TL Salz, 4 Gewürznelken, ½ Tasse Melasse, 200 g Rohzucker, 2 TL Senfpulver, 1 TL schwarzer Pfeffer, ½ l Wasser, 250 g gepökeltes Schweinefleisch.
 
Die Bohnen gut mit Wasser bedecken, zum Kochen bringen und 2 Minuten kochen, danach im Kochwasser eine Stunde stehen lassen. Dann erneut aufkochen, eine geschälte ganze Zwiebel und 1 TL Salz hinzufügen, ca. 30 Minuten leise köcheln lassen. Abgießen und Zwiebel und Wasser wegtun.
Währenddessen den Backofen auf 175°C vorwärmen. In einen ofenfesten Bräter mit dicht schließendem Deckel die anderen beiden geschälten Zwiebeln, in die je zwei Gewürznelken gesteckt wurden, legen und mit den Bohnen bedecken. Melasse, 150 g Rohzucker, Senf, Salz und schwarzen Pfeffer verrühren, dabei langsam mit ½ l Wasser vermischen. Die Mischung zu den Bohnen gießen. Das Schweinefleisch kommt in die Mitte und wird ein bisschen heruntergedrückt.
Den Deckel fest verschließen und das Ganze im vorgeheizten Ofen ca. 4 ½ - 5 Stunden backen. Danach den restlichen Zucker darüberstreuen, eine weitere halbe Stunde backen und dann servieren.
 
 
2.
450 g weiße Bohnen über Nacht in kaltem Wasser einweichen
2 Zwiebeln schälen und würfeln, 1 Knoblauchzehe schälen und zerdrücken
2 EL Dijon-Senf, 5 EL Melasse, 450 ml Tomatensaft, 450 ml helles Bier, 4 EL Tomatenmark, 4 EL Worcestersauce, 2 EL Chilisauce
Salz und Pfeffer.
 
Die Bohnen abgießen, in einem großen, schweren Topf mit frischem Wasser bedecken und aufkochen. 10 Minuten sprudelnd kochen, dann 45 Minuten leise köcheln lassen. Abgießen und in einen ofenfesten Bräter umfüllen. Die restlichen Zutaten dazutun und alles gut vermischen.
Mit einem dicht schließenden Deckel verschließen und bei 150°C im vorgeheizten Backofen etwa 2-4 Stunden backen, dabei mehrmals umrühren und ggf. Tomatensaft oder Wasser nachgießen. Vor dem Servieren abschmecken.
 
 
Anmerkungen:
Die amerikanische Version kommt ohne Tomaten aus, die britische ohne Fleisch (man kann aber vermutlich wie für Bohnensuppe auch ein Speckstück nehmen und es vor dem Servieren entfernen).
Ich habe mir mal sagen lassen, weiße Bohnen weichzukochen, mit Zucker, Salz und Pfeffer abzuschmecken und dann mit Ketchup zu vermischen hätte den gleichen Effekt und ginge wesentlich schneller ... 
#5Verfasserpenguin (236245) 13 Jan 17, 22:39
Kommentar
PS: Ein Ersatz für Melasse wäre dunkler Sirup und für das gepökelte Schweinefleisch ein Speckstück.

Man kann auch Baked Beans aus der Dose mit Tomatenmark und einem Spritzer Essig weniger süß machen.

Und hier noch ein Link zu Delia: http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/internatio...
#6Verfasserpenguin (236245) 13 Jan 17, 22:40
Kommentar
I knew when it came to recipes, penguin would have some. (-:

Here's one more version claiming to be the Boston one, with some background information as well.

http://uwyoextension.org/uwnutrition/2014/08/...
#7Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 13 Jan 17, 22:50
Kommentar
Es ist nicht die Süße, sondern die Mischung von Gewürzen und Aromen bei den Fertigdosen, die ich nicht mag. Da will ich lieber selber rumexperimentieren.
#8VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 13 Jan 17, 23:50
Kommentar
Man kann auch Baked Beans aus der Dose mit Tomatenmark und einem Spritzer Essig weniger süß machen.

Die schmecken dann zwar weniger süß, der Zucker bleibt aber drin. Überhaupt ist der ganze versteckte Zucker, z.B. in fertigem Kartoffel- oder Krautsalat, eine Gefahr für alle Diabetiker.
#9Verfasserbluesky (236159) 14 Jan 17, 00:19
Kommentar
hm-us, bei Deinem ersten Rezept in #3 soll man einen Teelöffel Backpulver ins Kochwasser geben. Meine Frage als Bohnenbacklaie: Wieso das? Und wieso heissen diese Bohnen eigentlich navy beans?

#10Verfasserzirp_ (703877) 14 Jan 17, 09:38
Kommentar
zirp, nicht Backpulver sondern etwas, was hierzulande Kaiser Natron heißt, das ist etwas anderes, der Unterschied wurde auch schon hier diskutiert (ich finde nur den Faden gerade nicht). Die Bohnen werden dann schneller weich.
#11Verfasserpenguin (236245) 14 Jan 17, 09:51
Kommentar
...wobei ich nicht sicher bin, ob das nicht ein bean myth ist, dass sie dann schneller weich werden.

Ich mache es so: Bohnen am Vorabend kurz in reichlich Wasser aufkochen, dann den Topf in einen Wollschal einwickeln, damit die Wärme lange hält, und über Nacht stehen lassen. Dann ist die Kochzeit am nächsten Tag vergleichsweise gering.

*Manieren unter dem Tisch aufklaub*

Und vielen Dank für die tollen Anregungen! Ich werde da definitiv demnächst mal was ausprobieren. Gerauchten, gepökelten Schweinebauch hat man bei uns auch im schwäbischen Linseneintopf mitgekocht, das ist mir also gar nicht so unbekannt!
#12VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 14 Jan 17, 10:17
Kommentar
LEO:
baking soda [chem.] - das Natriumbicarbonat auch: Natriumbikarbonat
baking soda [cook.] - Backpulver aus Natriumbicarbonat (auch: Natriumbikarbonat)
baking soda [chem.] - das Natron kein Pl.
baking soda [chem.][cook.] - die (auch: das) Speisesoda kein Pl. (Österr.)
baking soda [chem.] - doppelkohlensaures Natron
https://dict.leo.org/englisch-deutsch/baking+soda+powder?rmWords=off

Siehe auch: baking powder, baking soda
Siehe auch: Baking powder/baking soda
Siehe auch: Baking powder = baking soda???
Siehe auch: baking soda/baking powder
Siehe auch: Baking soda / baking powder

Speaking of getting the beans soft faster, it's interesting to compare these recipes. Why start with only a little liquid and have to keep checking and adding liquid, when in another recipe you just add all the liquid at the start? And why soak overnight when you can boil, set aside, and boil again in an hour or two? Amazing ...

And apart from all that, if my Brazilian friend's mother were here, she would certainly say, why cook for 6 hours when you can use a pressure cooker? But I don't know how to judge exactly how long it would take in a pressure cooker, and I'm always worried the thing will explode ...

Re cook the beans and add ketchup: that sounds like one step too many toward oversimplification. The stuff is ketchupy enough as it is -- that's partly what I'm not crazy about. (But anyone who likes Currywurst may think ketchupy beans are great.)

Re navy beans: They're wonderful, and actually, navy bean soup is a great soup, easy to make even with canned beans, plus carrot, celery, onion, garlic, and chicken stock. Maybe a bay leaf, and some rosemary.

And for anyone who doesn't like canned baked beans, I would think you could still save a lot of time by jump-starting the baked-bean recipe with canned navy beans (which don't have any particular seasoning except salt and pork) instead of soaking the dried beans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy_bean

Apparently the name 'navy' comes from their use by the navy, as a staple food for sailors. Navy bean soup later became famous in the dining room of the US Senate, whose recipe is still popular in updated versions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_bean_soup
https://www.cookscountry.com/recipes/8071-sen...

#13Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 14 Jan 17, 10:28
Kommentar
Natron verändert nicht nur den pH des Kochwassers, sondern auch die Zellstruktur der Bohnen. In England werden für mushy peas bestimmte Erbsen mit einer natronhaltigen Tablette verkauft, sonst könnte man sie nicht zu Mus verkochen. Aber zwingend nötig ist es sicher nicht.

Incidentally, I did find baking soda threads, but not the fairly recent one I was looking for which referred specifically to baking (which is irrelevant for softening pulses) and where escoville contributed. But never mind.
#14Verfasserpenguin (236245) 14 Jan 17, 10:30
Kommentar
Danke für Eure Antworten: natürlich Natron, nicht Backpulver!
Ich hatte mir übrigens für dieses Jahr als Küchen-Experimentierfeld Hülsenfrüchte vorgenommen, da kommt dieser Faden wie gerufen.
#15Verfasserzirp_ (703877) 14 Jan 17, 10:38
Kommentar
Auch für mich trifft sich das gut, denn ich habe auch beschlossen, den Leguminosen mehr Aufmerksamkeit zu widmen (heute gibt es einen Eintopf mit weißen Bohnen). Zudem ging es mir mit den Dosen-Baked-Beans wie Goldammer. Sehr schön. Werd ich auch mal probieren.
#16VerfasserSelima (107) 14 Jan 17, 15:05
Kommentar
Mom's Baked Bean Pot

1/2 lb. lean hamburger, browned
1 C onions, sautéed
scant 1/2 C brown sugar (don't pack the measuring cup)
1/4 C vinegar
1/4 C prepared mustard
1 C ketchup (we use a low sodium/sugar variety)
1 can each of ready beans, 3 kinds

Mix ingredients together. Put in a bean pot. Bake, covered, for one hour at 300 F. (You can also bake at a higher temperature for a shorter time if you are in a hurry.)

I use a combination of butter, pinto, dark red kidney or black beans. I like a variety of colors and sizes. I don't particularly like chickpeas in this recipe. The recipe calls for canned beans, but you could certainly substitute beans you have prepared yourself.

I rarely follow a recipe, so I also add minced garlic, chopped green and red bell pepper, sometimes sliced carrots, even a bit of cumin.

The recipe originally called for a pound of hamburger and more sugar. We use super lean ground beef from my sister-in-law's dairy farm. You could use a different kind of ground meat or leave it out, according to your preferences.

This goes well with baked potatoes or corn bread. In my opinion, this dish tastes better warmed-up the next day.
#17VerfasserAmy-MiMi (236989) 14 Jan 17, 22:11
Kommentar
Wow, that sounds ... deftig? Can't think exactly how you say 'hearty' in German, but the kind of thing that would revive an Iowa farmer who had been out with the sheep in the snow. Wonderful for winter.

Since so many bean and pea recipes seem to go well with cornbread, I can't resist offering my mom's time-tested cornbread recipe, which came originally from one of her best friends from east Texas.

1/2 c. yellow cornmeal
4-5 tbsp. unsifted flour
2 tsp. baking powder
1/2 tsp. salt
1 egg
3/4 c. milk
3 tbsp. melted shortening (e.g., bacon drippings, Crisco)

Melt shortening in pie plate (= 9-inch Pyrex) while preheating oven to 425° F (~ 220° C), watching closely to avoid catching fire.

Mix dry ingredients. Blend egg and milk together (a fork is fine), then add to dry ingredients.

Pour most of shortening into batter mixture and stir, leaving some fat to coat pie plate and prevent sticking. Pour mixture back into pie plate and bake at 425° F until brown, 15-20 minutes (use toothpick to test doneness).

Can also make in square 8" x 8" x 2" pan, or a doubled recipe can be made in a 2-qt. casserole.

_______________

At New Year's, all you have to do is heat a can of black-eyed peas and serve over hot buttered cornbread with some chopped green onions, and you will have good luck in the year to come. (-:


#18Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 15 Jan 17, 09:05
Kommentar
Als hättest du meine Gedanken gelesen, hm--us!!

Ich habe gestern überlegt, euch noch zu fragen, was eigentlich cornbread ist - das kenne ich überhaupt nicht. Toll!

Isst man das generell zu warmen, herzhaften Speisen?

Und ja, deftig ist genau der richtige Ausdruck in dem Kontext.

Leo büldet:

Hab bei der Gelegenheit z.B. auch gelernt, was hamburger ist - ein Ausdruck, den ich so auch nicht kannte - und einen längeren Artikel bei Tante Wiki über Cresco gelesen (ich persönlich habe nichts gegen tierische Fette und würde wahrscheinlich Butterschmalz nehmen statt Pflanzenfett mit Buttergeschmack.... ;-) )

Eine Frage noch: warum unsifted flour? Hat das irgendeinen tieferen Sinn, dass das Mehl nicht gesiebt wird?
#19VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 15 Jan 17, 09:40
Kommentar
I don't know whether you could get either kind very easily in Germany.

The BE kind fairly easily on the deli shelf (!) at the supermarket.

(I remember the documentary producer Johnny Morris visiting a French supermarket and remarking: 'They know not the naked, bakéd bean...')
#20Verfasserescoville (237761) 15 Jan 17, 10:18
Kommentar
Re #20: Yep. Likely not at Aldi or Lidl (unless they're having a featured country or whatever), but at "regular" supermarkets. My Real,- even has it's own brand, labelled as "Baked Beans -- typisch britisch." Other brands that they carry say "gebackene Bohnen" or similar.

What are called "baked beans" (in the can) in BE do indeed differ from "baked beans" in the US. When you say "baked beans" in the US, you mean something that has other flavorings in it than the BE baked beans (see some of the recipes here). The "plain" beans in tomato sauce are getting harder to find there (they've been replaced by all sorts of "baked beans" with various flavor characteristics), but they do exist. An old standby brand (Cambell's) used to call them "Pork and Beans," but I'm not sure that that brand of them still exists. (They actually did have a piece of salt pork/bacon in there -- my dad worked at the company over 60 years ago and spoke of women in production whose job it was to place a piece of pork into each can before the beans were filled in.)

Re #19: Flour in the US is measured by volume, not by weight (a cup is standardized at 8 fluid ounces, but we use that volume (about 240 ml) to measure dry ingredients as well). If you sift the flour ahead of time, it has less weight per volume (and thus there's less flour in the cup). If you use the cup to scoop the flour directly out of the container of flour, you get more flour in the cup (more weight per volume). It seems that the trend in cookbooks these days is to use a spoon to transfer the flour from the container into the cup, and then level off the top with the back of a knife or similar.

Unless otherwise specified, when US recipes call simply for "flour," they mean "all-purpose" flour. The closest German equivalent to that is 550. "Typ 405" is closest to cake flour in the US (less gluten, more starch). I usually figure that a cup of 550 weighs 125–130 g.

You could use "Palmin" (the firm, white kind) for the "Crisco" in this recipe.

Re #13: Pressure cookers -- I use mine to cook legumes regularly. It's great. I always end up doing an internet search for the cooking time, and I find that they usually need more than is given -- but it's a good method. Unlike "older" pressure cookers, modern pressure cookers have multiple devices that prevent excess pressure. (I think the German ones are a bit more advanced than the "newer" ones I've seen in US recently, but even those in the US aren't bad.)

Agree with penguin regarding using "dunkler sirup" as a replacement for molasses. Its taste is not quite as strong as molasses, but it is similar. If a US recipe calls for brown sugar (which, contrary to various entries on various threads here, is not the same as various types of "brown"/unrefined sugar here!), all you have to do is take a bit less of the sugar and add a teaspoon to a tablespoon (5 to 15 ml) or so (to taste) of molasses or "dunkler sirup."
That said, molasses is indeed available here, and it's good -- I get it from the "Reformhaus." Because it's rather expensive, though, for many things I simply use the German sirup if the exact taste of the molasses isn't that critical.




#21Verfasserhbberlin (420040) 15 Jan 17, 13:15
Kommentar
What else do you eat cornbread with?
And can you use polenta instead of cornmeal?
#22Verfasserpenguin (236245) 15 Jan 17, 13:22
Kommentar
I'm not a huge cornbread fan -- nothing against it, I just don't go out of my way to make it, but I'd never turn it down if offered it. Perhaps it's because I'm from the North and it's most popular in the South. It's eaten with all sorts of things, but especially dishes that have a bit of juice/gravy that can be sopped up. Chili is one. I'm trying to think how it would go with something like goulash. Could work. (?). Thick soups.

I think polenta is a bit finer than cornmeal, but may work. (If I recall correctly, I used it a few years ago for cornbread on New Year's Day, to go together with a traditional Southern dish for the day, "Hoppin' John." The cornbread was good. The other -- not so much.
#23Verfasserhbberlin (420040) 16 Jan 17, 08:28
Kommentar
Perhaps it's because I'm from the North and it's most popular in the South.

While cornbread may be more commonly eaten in the South, I don't consider it to be southern, the way grits or black eyed peas are. Maybe it has to do with how often it was served in your home. My mother, who grew up in northern Wisconsin, made cornbread, and I consider it to be completely typical for the Midwest, at least the part where I grew up.
#24VerfasserAmy-MiMi (236989) 16 Jan 17, 16:53
Kommentar
I don't consider it to be southern

I didn't say that it's just a Southern dish. I did say that it's most popular in the South, and I think that that can be found to hold true. (At least the good folks at Wiki seem to believe so...and I know that that isn't "scientific," but it does represent an opinion held by others. My classmates at grad school in Chicago lamented the rarity of cornbread there -- except for the excellent cornbread sold at some of the "soul food" restaurants in town.)

What I've learned from looking at recipes is that there's also a difference between typical Northern cornbread and typical Southern cornbread.

#25Verfasserhbberlin (420040) 16 Jan 17, 17:17
Kommentar
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you thought it was a southern dish. I was just surprised that you gave growing up in the North as a reason for not being a fan of cornbread. Was cornbread served at your house, even occasionally?

We didn't eat it all the time, but often enough, and I definitely always liked it. Perhaps it's more of a rural/urban thing.

You are right about the difference in recipes. The recipe that hm -- us gave is quite different from the cornbread I grew up eating.
#26VerfasserAmy-MiMi (236989) 16 Jan 17, 17:53
Kommentar
Na, da muss ich jetzt doch gleich fragen:

Wie ist denn das Rezept für das Cornbread deiner Kindheit, Amy-MiMi?
Was ist daran anders?
#27VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 16 Jan 17, 18:16
Kommentar
I'm pretty sure my mother used the recipe on the Quaker Corn Meal can. Here is a link to a recipe on the Quaker Oats website.


Interestingly enough, it is not exactly the same as the recipe on the container in my cupboard. *Kopf kratz* I don't follow recipes, though, so I can't say exactly how I make it. Probably I put in more like 2 T of sugar rather than 4 T. That seems like a lot.


#28VerfasserAmy-MiMi (236989) 16 Jan 17, 20:08
Kommentar
The Quaker Oats recipe page doesn't open for me, so I wonder if (too much) sugar is the main difference, or if there's something else. To me the problem with cornbread in many places like chain restaurants is indeed that it can seem too heavy, and too sticky-sweet; we like ours because it comes out a little lighter and fluffier, perhaps because of using part flour. Using bacon grease also helps add flavor; I would use at least part if possible.

The Pyrex pie plate is of course inauthentic; it was probably originally a small cast-iron skillet that went from stove to oven, but Pyrex is just handier. The wedges are key, though, at least in my nostalgia-tinged memory -- squares would just be square. (-;
#29Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 17 Jan 17, 07:56
Kommentar
Hier ist das Rezept für dich zum Vergleichen, hm--us:

1 cup Quaker® Yellow or White Corn Meal
1 cup all-purpose flour
2 to 4 tablespoons sugar
4 teaspoons baking powder
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 cup milk
1 egg, beaten
1/4 cup vegetable oil

Der Haupt-Unterschied scheint wirklich der Zucker zu sein und dass geschmacksneutrales Pflanzenöl statt dem herzhaften Schmalz verwendet wird.
#30VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 17 Jan 17, 08:14
Kommentar
Frage an hbberlin: Du schriebst, daß der Hoppin' John nicht ganz so gut war (wie das cornbread). Gilt das generell für das Gericht oder nur speziell für das Rezept, das Du damals gekocht hast?
#31VerfasserSelima (107) 17 Jan 17, 09:05
Kommentar
(...ehm...OT, da wir ja im Sprachforum sind:

Eigentlich wird "statt" mit Genitiv verwendete; ich hätte also
...statt des herzhaften Schmalzes....schreiben müssen.

In meinem umgangssprachlichen Alltag verwende ich offensichtlich den Dativ - vielleicht ändert sich da gerade der Gebrauch, mir wäre es richtig gestelzt vorgekommen, den Genitiv zu verwenden.)
#32VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 17 Jan 17, 09:56
Kommentar
For Selima: Having eaten black-eyed peas just a few times in my life, and never having eaten Hoppin' John prior to that attempt, I really can't say. I usually tend to like dried legume dishes, and I don't think that there's anything about black-eyed peas that I would dislike. So, I'd guess that either I messed up or I chose a bad recipe (or I combined recipes -- which I often do -- in an unfortunate way).

OT: I'm usually a fairly decent cook. Years ago, however, a made a zucchini/tomato dish that even the dog wouldn't eat -- and he tended to eat just about anything.
#33Verfasserhbberlin (420040) 17 Jan 17, 10:33
Kommentar
hbberlin, danke. Dann werd ich einfach mal einen Versuch wagen.
#34VerfasserSelima (107) 17 Jan 17, 11:14
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One of the major differences between hm -- us's recipe and the Quaker recipe is the cornmeal to flour ratio. In the Texas recipe it is 2:1 for cornmeal, while in the Quaker recipe it is 1:1. That would make a big difference in consistency. My guess is that the Quaker recipe is cakier than the kind made by hm -- us.
#35VerfasserAmy-MiMi (236989) 17 Jan 17, 15:39
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Noch eine ganz praktische Frage, wenn ihr einen im Ofen gebackenen Bohnentopf machen würdet und ihn mit Cornbread servieren wolltet - wie macht ihr das denn dann mit dem Ofen? Den Bohnentopf vorher raustun und warmhalten, so lange das Cornbread bäckt?
#36VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 17 Jan 17, 16:32
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Hast du einen Umluft-Backofen? Dann könntest du beides gleichzeitig machen.

Aber in nur 20 Minuten Backzeit für das cornbread ist der Bohnentopf auch noch nicht so weit abgekühlt, dass man ihn nicht mehr essen könnte, im Gegenteil - er ist dann nicht mehr zu heiß :-)
#37Verfasserpenguin (236245) 17 Jan 17, 16:51
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Aber in nur 20 Minuten Backzeit für das cornbread ist der Bohnentopf auch noch nicht so weit abgekühlt, dass man ihn nicht mehr essen könnte, im Gegenteil - er ist dann nicht mehr zu heiß :-)

I agree with penguin there -- can't say how many times I've burned my mouth on baked beans straight out of the oven!
#38Verfasserhbberlin (420040) 17 Jan 17, 17:01
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penguin, der Bohnentopf wird bei 150° geköchelt, das Cornbread lt. hm--us' Rezept bei 220° - das geht nicht zusammen.....

Ok, hbberlin, das würd ich dann machen. Lapp verbrennen ist nicht so lustig, stimmt....
#39VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 17 Jan 17, 18:40
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dann kannst du sie in der Tat nur nacheinander machen
#40Verfasserpenguin (236245) 17 Jan 17, 19:03
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Bake the beans the day before, or in the morning. They taste better after they've "aged" a bit. Bake the cornbread right before dinner.
#41VerfasserAmy-MiMi (236989) 17 Jan 17, 19:30
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Und dann die Bohnen kurz vor dem Essen nochmal aufwärmen?
#42VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 17 Jan 17, 20:49
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Richtig...err...right!

Selima asked.

My variation on Roman Rice and Beans, a recipe from Frances Moore Lappé's Diet for a Small Planet.

3/4 C dried red kidney beans, cooked about 2 C
2 C raw brown rice, cooked

Sauté in oil as needed: 2 cloves garlic, one onion, 1 or 2 carrots, 1 stalk celery, 1 green pepper, 2/3 C parsley, 2 to 3 tsp dried basil, 1 tsp dried oregano.

Add: 2-3 large tomatoes, beans, salt and pepper to taste.

Combine: rice and 1/2 C grated parmesan cheese.

Serve rice with beans.

I didn't specify in the recipe, but you should cut, chop and mince the vegetables in a way that makes sense. For example, I like the carrots sliced thinly.
#43VerfasserAmy-MiMi (236989) 17 Jan 17, 23:52
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I might have heard of Hoppin' John sometime in my life, but I didn't realize it was largely just black-eyed peas and rice. It probably depends a lot on the onion and the bacon / pork / sausage for seasoning. Underseasoned black-eyed peas can be pretty blah, and adding volume of something else unseasoned like plain rice could make the whole thing blander.

I've never made it or eaten it, but here are a couple of recipes, one from the cookbook company Betty Crocker, and one from the magazine Southern Living, both long-established sources that should be fairly reliable.


Some of the better-known bean and pea dishes that go well with rice are more highly seasoned, like feijoada, from Brazil, which includes a lot of different cuts of salt-cured pork, or Cajun red beans and rice, from Louisiana, which can be quite spicy if you want it to be. There again, I haven't made either one myself, but I'm sure we have some recipes that I could copy if anyone wants to try them out. (Or penguin, do you have a recipe for feijoada? Or I could ask Carioca in the Portuguese forum.)

As I recall, they're both fairly big, several-hour projects -- maybe something for a winter weekend with some kitchen helpers available.

The other answer to the question 'What goes well with cornbread' doesn't involve beans or peas, but I'll mention it anyway: gumbo, another staple from Cajun country, which is like a thick soup that includes okra, seafood, and sometimes also sausage or chicken.


Southern Living would probably have some recipes for it as well, or here are a couple of others. The more authentic it is, the more labor-intensive, starting with a roux and involving a lot of ingredients. (Which is why I haven't ever made it either ...)


If that's too intimidating, I would just say any hearty soup, like a good sausage soup with some beans, tomatoes, onion, potatoes, carrot, celery ... Which I do actually make, though not always the same way twice. (-:
#44Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 18 Jan 17, 00:48
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Feijoada? No, sorry. I seem to remember that real feijoada takes ages and lots of different meats to prepare, but there are probably shortcuts (such as canned, prepared beans) these days. But the real point about feijoada are the side dishes - fluffy rice, crunchy farofa and vibrant green Minas cabbage, and, of course, fresh orange slices. Having said that, many people still serve rice and black beans as side dishes with a meal.
By all means ask Carioca.
Meanwhile, here's a link that looks authentic: http://www.essen-und-trinken.de/rezept/199277...
#45Verfasserpenguin (236245) 18 Jan 17, 07:43
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Jetzt muß ich nochmal blöd nachfragen - was darf ich mir unter molasses vorstellen? Dunkler Sirup sagt mir nix. Ist das das, was der Rheinländer Rübenkraut nennt, Zuckerrübensirup? Dieses fast schwarze, zähe, klebrige Zeug mit ausgeprägtem, ziemlich speziellem Eigengeschmack?

Mich schockieren ein bißchen die Zuckermengen in manchen Rezepten. Mehr als einen Teelöffel Zucker an herzhafte Gerichte zu geben widerstrebt mir irgendwie.
Mein Bioladen führt weiße Bohnen in ziemlich einfacher langweiliger Tomatensoße, die kann ich für meine Zwecke immer ganz gut aufmotzen.
#46VerfasserChaja (236098) 18 Jan 17, 08:24
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Nicht verzagen, Tante Wiki fragen!


Molasses ist also nicht das gleiche wie Zuckerrübensirup, aber für die Verwendung in Baked Beans ist sicher letzterer ein brauchbarer Ersatz.
#47VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 18 Jan 17, 08:34
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Re #45: Yes, sorry, probably too much to ask. Like gumbo.

So, I looked at home for recipes for red beans and rice and didn't actually find many. But here are some others that seem authentic and not impossibly hard. (And they don't involve sugar ...)

http://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016675-re...
http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipes/Classic...
http://www.gumbopages.com/food/red-beans.html
http://www.camelliabrand.com/recipes/new-orle...

I did find one more cookbook, from Corpus Christi ('¡Viva! Tradiciones'), with some bean recipes. Here's one I haven't tried that looks good and not hard, for 'drunk beans,' aka frijoles borrachos, aka frijoles charros (cowboy style). The touch of sherry makes them 'drunk,' or other recipes use beer.

2 c. dry pinto beans
2 tsp. salt
1 c. chopped onion
2 cloves garlic
1 bay leaf
1/4 tsp. oregano
1/2 lb. bacon
1 1/2 c. chopped bell pepper
2 tsp. chili powder
1 c. sherry
3 tbsp. molasses
1/2 c. dry mustard

Sort and rinse beans. (Soak overnight to reduce cooking time by 1 hour.)

Place all ingredients in a large pot with enough water to cover. Simmer covered over low heat until beans are tender, about 3 hours.

____________________


And since I have that cookbook out, here's a bonus -- a non-bean dish, but one that would go well with cornbread.

Shrimp Creole Mon Cher

2 tbsp. margarine
1 onion, chopped
2 stalks celery, chopped
1 bell pepper, chopped
2 tbsp. flour
1 bay leaf
dash Tabasco
dash Worcestershire sauce
salt to taste
cayenne pepper to taste
1 (6-oz.) can tomato paste
1 (14 1/2-oz.) can chopped tomatoes
3 c. water (or less if too liquid?)
3-4 c. peeled frozen shrimp
3 c. cooked rice, white or brown

In large skillet, sauté onion, celery, and bell pepper in margarine until tender. Blend in flour. Stir in bay leaf, seasonings, tomato paste, tomatoes, and water. Simmer uncovered 30 to 40 minutes, stirring occasionally. Add shrimp and simmer just a few more minutes, until shrimp are just thawed but not overcooked. Remove bay leaf and serve over rice.

_____________________

Sorry, sorry, I know the thread was originally about baked beans, but I hope this isn't too far off topic.

(And I'm afraid it's mostly not kosher as is, but maybe one could substitute chicken for pork and fish for shrimp.)
#48Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 18 Jan 17, 09:21
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>>Dieses fast schwarze, zähe, klebrige Zeug mit ausgeprägtem, ziemlich speziellem Eigengeschmack

That does sound about like it, especially the potent kind called blackstrap molasses. I don't think anyone in the modern day would eat molasses just raw. However, American molasses is apparently made from sugar cane rather than from sugar beets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molasses


So are (baked) beans and peas mainly just not a German thing, or are there also European recipes that we could include? There must at least be some with lentils ...
#49Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 18 Jan 17, 09:32
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Well, pea soup (Erbsensuppe) and lentil soup (Linsensuppe) with sausages, salt pork or really any kind of slightly fatty meat are indeed a German thing, served for instance around midnight at a party, and I am sure many people have their own recipes for them. I am not a big soup fan, so I don't usually make them myself, but here's a link for Schwäbische Linsensuppe:
#50Verfasserpenguin (236245) 18 Jan 17, 09:53
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Bei uns ist das eher ein Eintopf. Mit Rotwein, reichlich Suppengemüse, geräuchertem Bauch, Wienerle - dazu Spätzle und immer die Flasche Essig auf dem Tisch. Da könnten wir uns alle reinsetzen.

Erbsen mag ich in keiner Variante. Dazu kann ich nichts sagen.

Einmal weg von dt. Küche, Kichererbsen mag ich in jeder Variante, ob als Salat, als Hommus, im Eintopf.
Gelbe oder rote Linsen kommen bei mir auch in viele eher anatolisch-levantinisch-asiatisch inspirierte Eintöpfe/Currys.
#51VerfasserSelima (107) 18 Jan 17, 10:10
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RE #41–42:
I agree. Baked beans really do taste great the next day. (Actually, when I make them, we usually eat them right away, but I try to make enough so that there will be leftovers).
They heat up quite well in the microwave. (My stoneware bean pot is so old, however, I'm not sure that it is microwave safe, so I heat them up in something else.
Confession: It may be a "tick" of mine, but I absolutely love cold leftover baked beans....
#52Verfasserhbberlin (420040) 18 Jan 17, 11:38
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Beliebt in hiesigen Gefilden (NRW) sind auch "Dicke Bohnen (broad beans) mit Speck", das ist aber auch gekocht, nicht gebacken. Soweit ich weiß, werden die auch frisch verarbeitet, nicht getrocknet, aber vielleicht ist das auch nur in Kleingärtnerkreisen der Fall... :-))

#53VerfasserSpinatwachtel (341764) 18 Jan 17, 12:26
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Gestern endlich habe ich den alten Faden ausgegraben und aus den verschiedenen Ideen ein Rezept kreiert, hat sehr gut geschmeckt!
Das Rezept beruht im Wesentlichen aus penguins Rezept 2 aus #5, in Verbindung mit Tipps zur Zubereitung aus hm--us' Link in #7.

Hier ist es:

Zutaten:
450 g weiße Bohnen
300 g Schwarzwälder Bauchspeck (gepökelter, geräucherter Schweinespeck)
2 große Zwiebeln
1 gr. Knoblauchzehe
2 Eßl Senf
3 Eßl Goldsaft (dunkler Zuckerrübensirup, hier Info dazu)
500 ml passierte Tomaten
450 ml helles Bier
4 Eßl Tomatenmark
1-2 Eßl Chilisauce
Salz
Pfeffer

Zubereitung:
Die Bohnen am Vorabend in reichlich Wasser aufkochen, über Nacht in eine Daunendecke eingewickelt einweichen lassen. Am nächsten Morgen mit frischem Wasser noch einige Zeit kochen, bis sie knapp bissfest sind.
Zwiebeln in Spalten schneiden und unten in den Bräter verteilen, die Hälfte des Specks in Stückchen geschnitten, darauf die Bohnen und oben drauf die andere Hälfte des Specks.
Knoblauchzehe fein würfeln und mit den restlichen Zutaten zu einer Soße verquirlen, die über die Bohnen verteilt wird. Nicht umrühren!
Glasdeckel auf den Bräter, 2 Stunden bei 150° im Backofen backen.
Vor dem Servieren umrühren, damit sich die Zwiebeln und der Speck verteilen.

Dazu gab's Broccoli mit weißer Käsesoße.

Anmerkungen:
Wir hatten 2 Eßl Chilisoße genommen, was mir aber zu scharf war...beim nächsten Mal werden wir nur einen nehmen! Unser Sohn fand es aber sehr gut so. Er vertilgte am Abend den ganzen Rest, so dass wir leider nicht wie geplant die aufgewärmte Variante am nächsten Tag probieren konnten....
Das Bier macht sich ausgezeichnet fürs Aroma, fanden wir! Die oben liegenden Speckstückchen bräunen leicht an, was sich sehr gut macht.
#54VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 12 Aug 17, 17:43
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Die Bohnen am Vorabend in reichlich Wasser aufkochen, über Nacht in eine Daunendecke eingewickelt einweichen lassen.
Einwickeln mit oder ohne Topf? ;-)
#55Verfassertwocents (460778) 12 Aug 17, 18:25
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@Goldammer: Sounds like a really interesting recipe! -- including the addition of beer. A dark beer might also be good -- adding a bit to the "darkness" or the "Goldsaft."
BTW: Goldsaft (which comes from the West) is one of my GDR-born husband's favorite "bread spreads," and he regularly uses it on his toast or Brötchen for breakfast. While there are other varieties of Zuckerrübensirup available, he doesn't like them since they are too mild in taste. (There was also a Zuckerrübensirup product in the East, but he recalls that it varied from tasting quite good to being to mild, like the other products now available.) I know that he's tested the jar of "Melasse" that I bought in the Reformhaus here and likes it, but I don't think he's ever tried it as a bread spread. I think it might be a bit too strong, but apparently some do like it. In any case, "Goldsaft" is much cheaper.

#56Verfasserhbberlin (420040) 12 Aug 17, 20:53
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@zwoisentle: :-D
I han dr Topf dromromglassa beim Eiwoicha!
(jetz hett-e doch fascht "daube Henn" gsagt, abber desch velleicht doch a weng zschdark.... :-P )
#57VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 12 Aug 17, 23:15
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Dääd dii Daunedägg nedd ess Innweischwassa offsauche wänn de Dibbe nemmeh dromm wäa ? Dass wäa jo dann nemmeh inweische sonndann aushäadde ... :-P
#58Verfasserno me bré (700807) 12 Aug 17, 23:31
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Oh, good. Glad you were able to make use of this thread. Thanks for letting us know your recipe and how things turned out. If Goldammerson polished the beans off, they must have been good.

I was surprised, when I checked, that this thread was from January. It seems longer ago than that.

*waving over the pond*
#59VerfasserAmy-MiMi (236989) 12 Aug 17, 23:54
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*ÜberdenTeichzurückwinkzuAmy-Mimi*

Emmerle, des isch abr au a Schdeilvorlaag gweah vo Dir!
Dia 'dauba Henn' nemme als Kombliment. :-)))

Das Rezept funktioniert bei mir so so oder nicht - die einzige, die sich in meine Daunendecke einwickeln darf, bin ich selbst! Bohnen haben da nichts zu suchen, egal ob mit oder ohne Topf drumrum!
#60Verfassertwocents (460778) 13 Aug 17, 01:27
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Re January: It was a little surprising to me that anyone would dig out such a heavy, hot recipe in the middle of August -- I can't even bring myself to make soup at the moment, it's just too hot. But maybe it was cool and rainy in Goldammerstadt this weekend.

Anyway, glad the recipe collection effort didn't go to waste. (-:
#61Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 13 Aug 17, 03:15
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hm -- us, gestern hatte es in München bei Regen 12 °C, vorgestern 14. Tagsüber. Und Goldammer wohnt ebenfalls in Süddeutschland, es dürfte also nicht bedeutend wärmer gewesen sein.
#62Verfassertwocents (460778) 13 Aug 17, 09:23
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die sich in meine Daunendecke einwickeln darf, bin ich selbst!

No nimmsch halt a Kochkischd.
#63Verfasserbluesky (236159) 13 Aug 17, 12:01
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Ich wollte mich nochmal melden und erzählen, dass meine in #54 genannte Variante des Rezepts es inzwischen in unsere Sammlung regelmäßig gekochter Mahlzeiten geschafft hat und allerseits sehr geschätzt wird.
Inzwischen passt auch das Wetter deutlich besser dafür...

Die Variante von Amy-MiMi und ihrer Mutter mit verschiedenen Bohnensorten und Gemüse hab ich auch mal ausprobiert, kam allerdings bei den Männern nicht so gut an ("das Gemüse hätt es jetzt nicht gebraucht...."), auch sind die kleinen grünen Wachtelbohnen etwas verkocht - die müssten nach dem Einweichen eigentlich gar nicht mehr groß vorgekocht werden. Wenn ich das Gericht nochmal mache ("Es wird gegessen, was auf den Tisch kommt!") behandle ich die unterschiedlichen Bohnensorten individuell.

Ich habe übrigens noch eine kulturhistorische Frage dazu, vielleicht weiß hm--us oder sonstwer etwas dazu?

Wir hatten irgendwie die Vorstellung, dass diese Art Bohnengerichte auch im "Wilden Westen" gerne verspeist wurden und hatten z.B. dieses Bild von einer Gruppe Cowboys vor Augen, die am Lagerfeuer sitzen und sich aus einem großen Topf Baked Beans schöpfen....
Was plausibel erscheint ist, dass getrocknete Bohnen natürlich ein problemlos mitzuführendes Grundnahrungsmittel sind.
Aber was irgendwie nicht dazu passt: diese Gerichte brauchen ja ewig, um durch und weich zu kochen - wie haben die das gemacht, wenn sie den ganzen Tag zu Pferd unterwegs waren? Hatten die in ihrem "Basislager" einen, der fürs Kochen zuständig war und den ganzen Tag den Bohnentopf geköchelt hat, damit er abends gar war?

Blöde Frage vielleicht, aber ich dachte, wenn ich sie irgendwo stellen kann, dann hier.....
#64VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 20 Sep 17, 18:27
Kommentar
At least in the Wild, Wild West of legend, yes, there was a cook. One of the classic names for the cook was "Cooky."

Here's a link that mentions it:
They were paid $20-$30 a month and were called names like Belly-cheater, Cooky, Coosie, Beef-trust, Dog face, Dutch, Beans, Punk, Grease-pot and Whistle-berry.
Being a chuckwagon cook in the Old West was a tough job. You only had certain ingredients to cook with, and you had to deal with unruly cowhands.
#65Verfasserhbberlin (420040) 20 Sep 17, 19:02
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Hmph -- men often do turn up their noses at healthy vegetables, but I also get similar complaints from my mom in her 80s, who would be happy to subsist solely on breakfast and dessert. Sometimes I think I missed bringing up toddlers only to make up for it at this late stage.

Oh, while I was typing I see hb has mentioned the same word I thought of in relation to cowboys, namely, 'chuckwagon.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuckwagon

I think that's how they did it on long cattle drives.

Back at the ranch, they came back to the bunkhouse at night, and the cook (or the rancher's wife) had a kitchen at the ranch house.
#66Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 20 Sep 17, 19:16
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Toll! Hatte noch nie vom Chuckwagon gehört, das ist echt spannend. Danke euch! Man kann sich einfach auf euch verlassen!
#67VerfasserGoldammer (428405) 20 Sep 17, 20:24
Kommentar
Also bitte! Die einzig wahren Bohnenkonsumenten des Wilden Westens, mit Rezept!
#68Verfasserjo-SR (238182) 21 Sep 17, 08:01
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