• Special characters
     
  • Lautschrift
     
 
leo-ende
Advertisement
Topic

"provided that" vs. "providing that"

25 replies   
Comment
Ich blättere gerade durch ein Buch mit Cambridge-Englischtests. Bei einer Aufgabe muss jeweils ein Wort ergänzt werden. Inhaltlich geht es um eine mögliche Marsmission im Jahr 2018:

"It's a tall order, but the race is on to develop systems involving totally new technologies. ____ that these can be put in place soon enough, the spacecraft might just make it."

Der Lösungsschlüssel gibt hier "Providing" als Antwort vor; ich hätte "Provided" gesagt.

Meine Frage: Meine Lösung ist doch auch möglich, oder? Und welche Wendung ist gebräuchlicher?

Vielen Dank für Eure Antworten!
AuthorNicki (DE) (616721) 05 Aug 17, 21:51
Comment
"Provided that" would be my answer as well.
#1AuthorMartin--cal (272273) 05 Aug 17, 22:06
Comment
"providing" würde nach meinem Verständnis implizieren, dass das Raumschiff selbst dafür sorgt.
#2AuthorRaudona (255425) 05 Aug 17, 23:09
Comment
IMO, either Providing or Provided can precede the word "that" in the OP's sentence.
#3AuthorHappyWarrior (964133) 06 Aug 17, 00:34
Comment
I wonder if the intention is to distinguish between a provision that remains hypothetical in the future (with -ing) and one that will have already been completed (with -ed).

But I don't think I actually make that distinction in practice, since a provision is always the 'A' in an 'If A then B' context, so it has to have already happened. So I would probably just use 'provided' in all cases, as the other AE speakers have said and as Nicki's own impulse suggested.

Maybe it's just a picky point that appears in BE usage manuals, though I don't think it should appear on an ESL test if so.

See if by tomorrow any BE speakers can be persuaded to comment. I'll be curious myself to see what any of them say, and whether anyone can turn up a source for some supposed rule, whether of grammar or of usage.
#4Authorhm -- us (236141) 06 Aug 17, 01:20
Comment
Sorry, but I'm not sure I understand your point.

If I've correctly read the OP, it is still uncertain whether the systems can be put in place soon enough.

"Providing" means: "on the condition or understanding (that); provided." (Webster's New World Dictionary.)

Of course, the original author quoted in the OP could have simply used "If" rather than "Providing/Provided that."


#5AuthorHappyWarrior (964133) 06 Aug 17, 01:39
Comment
At any rate, I agree with #3.
#6AuthorKinkyAfro (587241) 06 Aug 17, 01:41
Comment
For what it's worth, the Google ngram shows "provided that" to be about 5 time more common than "providing that" in books in American English, and roughly 10 times as common in books in British English. In both corpora, peak usage of "provided that" was around 1940-1960, falling off subsequent to that (as language became less formal, I suppose.)
#7AuthorMartin--cal (272273) 06 Aug 17, 06:33
Comment
 
Providing (that) is more common in speaking; provided (that) is more formal and more common in written language:
[talking about rail travel in the UK]
You can get a senior citizen’s reduction providing you’ve got a railcard.
They may do whatever they like provided that it is within the law.

Although occasionally still disapproved, providing is as well established as a conjunction as provided is. Provided is more common.

The phrase “providing that” is sometimes used as an alternative to “provided that”. Both mean the same thing and both are correct, but “provided that” is the more popular alternative.

The words provided and providing are interchangeable when used to mean on condition that.
    Provided that the weather is fine, we'll have a picnic on Saturday.
    Providing that the weather is fine, we'll have a picnic on Saturday.
Some writers maintain that provided is preferable to providing as a conjunction meaning on condition that. Both are acceptable. However, as some of your readers may prefer provided, it is safer to choose this option.

The conjunctions Provided that and providing that can interchangeably be used to mean "if -  on condition that"
#8Authorshake_speare (841024) 06 Aug 17, 10:21
Comment
I prefer provided that. Not sure to what extent that is due to traditional legal training.
#9AuthorJurist (US) (804041) 06 Aug 17, 10:36
Comment
I think I use both indiscriminately. If I bother to think about it, then I'd say (and write) 'provided'.
#10Authorescoville (237761) 06 Aug 17, 12:54
Comment
I would use the two terms in the same way as the Bard's examples from the Cambridge dictionary in #8, i.e.:
Provided that these can be put in place soon enough ...
or
Providing these can be put in place soon enough ...

#11Authorisabelll (918354) 06 Aug 17, 13:47
Comment
Vielen Dank Euch allen! :)
#12AuthorNicki (DE) (616721) 06 Aug 17, 20:09
Comment
Just for the record, I'd like to underline, from #8, However, as some of your readers may prefer provided, it is safer to choose this option. (I am one of those readers.)
#13AuthorJurist (US) (804041) 06 Aug 17, 20:59
Comment
IMO, either Providing or Provided can precede the word "that" in the OP's sentence.
I think I use both indiscriminately. If I bother to think about it, then I'd say (and write) 'provided'.

Same here.
#14AuthorDragon (238202) 07 Aug 17, 13:21
Comment
I certainly prefer "provided".
#15AuthorKinkyAfro (587241) 07 Aug 17, 16:53
Comment
I prefer "provided that" But both are understood. Some "grammar experts" care about the difference. But most people don't.

"Provided that" is more common than "providing that."

#16Authoreric (new york) (63613) 07 Aug 17, 19:50
Comment
I think I often leave out the "that".
#17AuthorKinkyAfro (587241) 07 Aug 17, 20:48
Comment
I don't think the 'that' is at issue, unless anyone thinks it determines the choice of 'provided' vs. 'providing' (#11?). (I don't; I'm happy with or without 'that.')

It seems to me that the main point is that so far, no one has come up with any rule that would support the distinction apparently made in the Cambridge test prep book according to the opening post.

So is that just a crock, and if so, should someone report it to the publisher?
#18Authorhm -- us (236141) 07 Aug 17, 21:08
Comment
Maybe my eyes deceive me, but I do see a difference. To me, "providing that" is on par with "ensuring that ...," whereas "provided (that)" would be more akin to "given that ..." Either one would work in the OP, but the meaning would be slightly different, IMO.

Edit: and no, I don't think "providing" would mean the spaceship itself would take care of matters (as in #2). But the scientists etc. involved with the spaceship (and the space program) would.
#19Authordude (253248) 07 Aug 17, 21:46
Comment
Nochmals vielen Dank! :)

Es scheint auch bei einigen anderen Aufgaben in dem Buch so zu sein, dass nur eine mögliche Lösung angegeben wird, wenn meiner Meinung nach auch andere Antworten möglich wären (z.B. an einer Stelle "for" statt "because"). Es wäre schön gewesen, wenn man das im Vorwort kurz erwähnt hätte. Das ist aber leider nicht der Fall.
#20AuthorNicki (DE) (616721) 07 Aug 17, 23:06
Comment
If the test prep book isn't actually published by Cambridge, then maybe it just isn't very reliable. (And maybe you could mention that on a review at your online bookseller, or even here, so that others would know.)

If it is, maybe you really should contact them and ask. Possibly even referencing this thread.
#21Authorhm -- us (236141) 07 Aug 17, 23:44
Comment
Re #18, #20, and #21.

A few weeks ago I said that it seemed to me that German-speakers had been taught false "rules" about the English language. Some Leos took umbrage and made unfriendly remarks about my comment. But I DO believe they are being taught some incorrect things, and then when they are confronted (here on Leo) with the truth, they sometimes don't like hearing the truth.
#22AuthorHappyWarrior (964133) 08 Aug 17, 00:51
Comment
Das Buch stammt von Cambridge selbst.

@22: Vielleicht stehe ich gerade mal wieder auf dem Schlauch ;-), aber ich bin mir nicht ganz sicher, was das mit dem Inhalt dieses Fadens zu tun hat. Im Lösungsschlüssel des Buchs wird ja keine falsche, sondern eine mögliche Lösung angegeben. Es ist halt nur nicht die einzig richtige.
#23AuthorNicki (DE) (616721) 08 Aug 17, 01:17
Comment
Let me paraphrase #18: That (the Lösungsschlüssel) is a crock. It's misleading. It suggests that it is the only right answer.
#24AuthorHappyWarrior (964133) 08 Aug 17, 01:34
Comment
I think it must be "fake English", HW! ;-)
#25AuthorKinkyAfro (587241) 08 Aug 17, 20:35
i Only registered users are allowed to post in this forum
 
LEO uses cookies in order to facilitate the fastest possible website experience with the most functions. In some cases cookies from third parties are also used. For further information about this subject please refer to the information under  Leo’s Terms of use / Data protection (Cookies)