#295 Echt? Und missionierende Zeugen Jehovas sind mit Exhibitionisten gleichsetzen?

Ich persönlich fühlte mich weniger gestört von jemanden, der meint, mir sein Geschlechtsteil zeigen zu müssen (da gehe ich einfach weiter), als von jemandem, der an meiner Tür klingelt, mich aus dem reisst, was immer ich gerade mache, und dann darauf besteht, mir die frohe Botschaft zu verkünden. Aber, falls das nicht klar war, ich sehe #280 als Bild, nicht als buchstäbliche Entsprechung, deshalb ist eine Diskussion, die es wörtlich nimmt, für mich nicht unbedingt sinnvoll.

Ich hatte die Bemerkung in Trump-Ära X/#280 verbucht unter: kontraproduktiv; Öl ins Feuer

OT: Als jemand, der sich mit Zeugen Jehovas sowohl schon ausführlich unterhalten als auch sie unverrichterer Dinge weggeschickt hat, empfehle ich bei Nichtinteresse zu sagen, "Nein, ich habe kein Interesse, bittte kommen sie nicht wieder" und die Tür zuzumachen, falls man sie bereits geöffnet hatte. Den Aufwand halte ich für minimal größer als die Nichtbeachtung einer Exhibitionistin (obwohl ich zugeben muss, in dem Punkt keine praktische Erfahrung zu haben).

sie machen etwas Strafbares, was die Polizei interessiert

In DE: Nur, wenn es sich um einen Mann handelt. Die individuellen Erfahrungen mit ungebetenen Gästen an der Haustür sind eben verschieden. Als besonders penetrant ist mir zum Beispiel aus meiner Zeit in DE ein Eumel vom Tierschutzbund in Erinnerung geblieben. Der war richtig aggressiv.

OT @Puppengesicht: Das entzieht sich meiner Kenntnis. Die rechtliche Lage in DE kenne ich auch nur wegen des mehrfach publizierten Falls des Pfarrers, der jahrelang von einer Exhibitionistin gestalkt wurde.

https://www.mpd150.com/about/

MPD150: working towards a police free Minneapolis

MPD150 is a participatory, horizontally-organized effort by local organizers, researchers, artists and activists. It is not the project of any organization. We stand on the shoulders of the work that many organizations have been doing for years and welcome the support of everyone who agrees with our approach. We hope that the process we are developing will help organizers in other cities to establish practical abolitionist strategies.

Zu dem Ausdruck "shove down one's throat" - das ist eine Redewendung, die in diesem Zusammenhang natürlich einen gewissen "Beigeschmack" (ups ...) bekommt (ich kenne diesen Vergleich auch mit "shove it down YOUR children's throat", was noch viel bitterer ist).

Siehe auch: ram sth down sb's throat - eintrichtern

"force / thrust / ram sth down sb’s throat (informal) to try to force sb to listen to and accept your opinions in a way that they find annoying— liability insurance damage compensation germany england"

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/shove+do...

Nur mal so.

Ich hatte in der 276 (Bubb) des Vorgängerfadens zum ersten Mal von OANN gelesen und daraufhin meine Kenntnisse ein bisschen erweitert.

Zumindest einer im Bush-Clan wird im November für Trump stimmen, George P., der Sohn von Jeb, den Trump im Wahlkampf demontiert hatte. Trump hat es getwittert.

Die neuesten Tweets sind zum Geschehen in Seattle, wo ein Weißer absichtlich in eine Menge von Demonstranten fuhr, ausstieg und dann um sich schoss.

https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/live20873...

Trumps Tweet auf die Demonstrationen nach diesem Zwischenfall:

Radical Left Governor @JayInslee

and the Mayor of Seattle are being taunted and played at a level that our great Country has never seen before. Take back your city NOW. If you don’t do it, I will. This is not a game. These ugly Anarchists must be stooped IMMEDIATELY. MOVE FAST!

Domestic Terrorists have taken over Seattle, run by Radical Left Democrats, of course. LAW & ORDER!"

In den Tagen zuvor hatte er noch den Chef der NFL zurechtgewiesen, weil dieser wie der Footballer Brees eine Kehrtwendung gemacht hatte, Verständnis für die zeigte, die gegen Rassismus protestieren und sie zukünftig unterstützen will.

Und natürlich die Havard Study verlinkt, die Parkplätze vor Kliniken in Wuhan untersucht hat, um damit einen eventuellen Ausbruch des Coronavirus schon im August 2019 zu beweisen. Vorerst hat er es aber noch unterlassen, schlussfolgernde Kommentare hinzuzufügen.

Im Radio wurde kürzlich der Podcast "Middle Ground" sehr positiv besprochen. Es geht im Prinzip darum, Opponenten miteinander ins Gespräch zu bringen. Ich habe erst einen angeschaut (Atheists and Christians), den ich ziemlich spannend fand. Es gibt auch eine ganze Reihe mit politischen Opponenten, den z.B.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbh64LX6-HY&l...

(Liberals and Conservatives) oder auch einen von 2018 mit "Black lives matter" und "Law enforcement". Für mich als nicht sehr erfahrene Person in Sachen USA ist das sehr lehrreich.

Sorry should this posting be redundant. This is the most bizarre news item I have come across in several days:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/10/politics/cnn-l...

President Donald Trump's reelection campaign sent a cease-and-desist letter to CNN demanding a retraction and apology for a recent poll that showed him behind presumptive Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden.

"In the letter to Zucker, the Trump campaign argued that the CNN poll is "designed to mislead American voters through a biased questionnaire and skewed sampling."

"It's a stunt and a phony poll to cause voter suppression, stifle momentum and enthusiasm for the President, and present a false view generally of the actual support across America for the President," read the letter, signed by the Trump campaign's senior legal adviser Jenna Ellis and chief operating officer Michael Glassner.

The campaign formally requested that CNN retract the poll and publish a "full, fair, and conspicuous retraction, apology, and clarification to correct its misleading conclusions."

David Vigilante, CNN's executive vice president and general counsel, told the campaign that its "allegations and demands are rejected in their entirety."

"To my knowledge, this is the first time in its 40-year history that CNN had been threatened with legal action because an American politician or campaign did not like CNN's polling results," Vigilante wrote in his response. "To the extent we have received legal threats from political leaders in the past, they have typically come from countries like Venezuela or other regimes where there is little or no respect for a free and independent media."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/10/politics/c...

Ein paar mehr Details. Unglaublich!

Da Fox News ja jetzt in Ungnade gefallen ist ("Incredible! @FoxNews

just took Congressional Hearing off the air just prior to important witness statements. More like CNN!!! Fox is lost!!!"), spielt es auch keine Rolle mehr, dass auch bei deren Umfragen (und etlichen anderen außer CNN+Fox) Trump hinter Biden liegt.

"But several other polls released over the past few weeks -- including polls by ABC News/Washington Post, Monmouth University, NPR/PBS Newshour/Marist College, NBC News/Wall Street Journal, Quinnipiac University and Fox News -- also show Biden well ahead of Trump."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/10/politics/t...

At last a statement from the nation's top general:

Pentagon’s top general apologizes for appearing with Trump in Lafayette Square

Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, made his first public comments about his appearance in a recorded graduation speech, saying he should not have been there: “My presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-secur...

Da bin ich mal gespannt, was für ein Tweet für Milley geschrieben wird.

Das

https://de.nachrichten.yahoo.com/trump-droht-...

prangte gerade bei mir auf der Yahoo-Titelseite, als ich nach meinen Mails schauen wollte.

"US-Präsident Donald Trump hat im Streit um mögliche Ermittlungen gegen US-Soldaten die Gangart gegen den Internationalen Strafgerichtshof (IStGH) drastisch verschärft: Trump drohte Vertretern des Tribunals am Donnerstag Wirtschaftssanktionen an, sollten sie gegen Angehörige der US-Streitkräfte ermitteln. Hintergrund ist eine Untersuchung zu möglichen Kriegsverbrechen in Afghanistan, die sich auch gegen US-Soldaten richten könnte. Der EU-Außenbeauftragte Josep Borrell zeigte sich "ernsthaft besorgt".

"Die Handlungen des Internationalen Strafgerichtshofs sind ein Angriff auf die Rechte von US-Bürgern und bedrohen unsere nationale Souveränität", erklärte das Weiße Haus am Donnerstag. Der Strafgerichtshof, dem die USA nicht angehören, führe "politisch motivierte Ermittlungen gegen uns oder unsere Verbündeten, darunter Israel"....

Die USA haben Chefanklägerin Bensouda wegen des Streits bereits ihr Visum für das Land entzogen. Das Weiße Haus erklärte am Donnerstag, Trump habe einer "Ausweitung der Visa-Restriktionen" gegen Vertreter des IStGH und deren Verwandte zugestimmt.

Außerdem habe der Präsident Wirtschaftssanktionen gegen all jene IStGH-Vertreter gebilligt, die ohne Zustimmung Washingtons gegen US-Soldaten ermitteln. Ihr Besitz in den USA soll eingefroren werden....

Obama war u. a. für eine skandalfreie Regierungszeit bekannt

A case of selective memory, it seems. For example, remember "kids in cages" in 2014?

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics...

First peek: Immigrant children flood detention center

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/...

The Border Patrol Finally Showed Reporters How Detained Child Migrants Are Living

Remember Operation Fast and Furious in 2011 - 2012?

https://www.cnn.com/2012/09/19/us/fast-furiou...

What was 'Fast and Furious,' and what went wrong?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2011/09...

'Fast And Furious' Just Might Be President Obama's Watergate

#40 Vielleicht habe ich was überlesen, aber ich habe nirgends gesehen, dass "Linksextreme" für diese Ausschreitungen verantwortlich gemacht werden - außer natürlich von Trump. Aus dem Artikel von CNN (dein dritter link): Nollette also said police have "heard anecdotally" of residents and businesses being asked to pay a fee if they want to operate in the area. "This is the crime of extortion," Nollette said. [ ...] Seattle officials say there is no indication the occupied area is being coordinated by left-wing groups under the umbrella of Antifa.

(Fettdruck und Unterstreichung von mir.)

Also benutze diese Randale bitte nicht für irgendwelches Linken-bashing.

Natürlich könnte es sich um Linksextreme handeln, das als gegeben zu behaupten, ist in meinen Augen aber eine Vorverurteilung.

Edit: Nur zur Klarstellung: Ich verurteile diese Ausschreitungen uneingeschränkt.

And what is the publication calling itself 'city-journal.org'?

"City Journal is a public policy magazine and website that covers a wide range of topics, from policing strategy, education reform, and social policy to urban architecture, family culture, and contemporary theories emanating from law schools, charitable foundations, and public health organizations. The magazine began publishing in 1990, and has been lauded as a premier urban policy magazine."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Journal

I don't see any information about who publishes it or where it gets its supposed information.

"A quarterly magazine of urban affairs, published by the Manhattan Institute, edited by Brian C. Anderson."

https://www.city-journal.org/magazine?issue=325

Other trustworthy sources would be recognized national newspapers, with print editions and fact checkers.

Faktenchecker haben hier einen etwas minitrue-artigen Ruf.

Of course anarchy isn't sustainable in the longer term, but defusing or at least postponing outright conflict could at least create space and time for dialogue.

From what little I have read about the situation in Seattle, the problem authorities have in trying to start dialogue right now is finding someone to talk to on the side of the occupiers. As the word anarchy already suggests, no particular organization seems to be in charge.

German law requires a masthead for all online publications, even blogs. In the US, it is a free for all, where it is at times incredibly difficult to figure out who is behind a particular online publication. I had heard of the Manhattan Institute before, but I wasn't aware that they put out a publication called City Journal.

The tide may be turning. I hope it is. This is the most encouraging thing I have read in the news since the election. Hopefully it won't dissipate.

Why Most Americans Support the Protests

Beyond the scenes of protest and resistance playing out in cities across the country, a movement of a different sort has taken hold.

The American public’s views on the pervasiveness of racism have taken a hard leftward turn over the past few years. Never before in the history of modern polling have Americans expressed such widespread agreement that racial discrimination plays a role in policing — and in society at large.

In a Monmouth University poll released this week, 76 percent of Americans — including 71 percent of white people — called racism and discrimination “a big problem” in the United States. That’s a 26-percentage-point spike since 2015. [wupper's bold] In the poll, 57 percent of Americans said demonstrators’ anger was fully justified, and another 21 percent called it somewhat justified.

In the Monmouth poll, and in another released this week by CBS News, exactly 57 percent of Americans said police officers were generally more likely to treat black people unfairly than to mistreat white people. In both surveys, about half of white people said so. This was a drastic change, particularly for white Americans, who have not historically said they believed that black people continued to face pervasive discrimination.

[...]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/us/politic...

People support a lot of things in theory.

Here in San Jose, the city has tried to find places to house the homeless. One of the proposed sites was not too far from where we live. As soon as this proposal became widely known, signs went up around the neighborhood opposing it, people started collecting signatures, and some of my neighbors stated in conversations I had with them that the homeless should be housed in other parts of the city, citing a variety of reasons. All this in a city dominated by liberal Democrats where plenty of people advocate for the homeless. Based on what I see on the evening news, San Francisco is running into the same problems.

In Germany, you have the same effect. Most support Energiewende, many are fans of Ms. Thunberg. But in many cases, the moment a bunch of wind turbines, a high-voltage powerline, or a pumped-storage facility is to be installed anywhere near them, protests arise and people head for the courts.

Actually, despite some resistance, Germany has an astounding number of wind turbines. It never ceases to amaze me when traveling around the country. I go by vast wind turbine farms that stretch as far as the eye can see. I take this as evidence of Germans' strong support of the Energiewende (starting long before the term came about) and of using alternative fuels in general. It doesn't seem merely theoretical to me at all. Oh, and then there's the Rapsöl in my car's gasoline. Do they do that in the U.S. nowadays?

But the encouraging thing to me about the article in #53 (and the main point) is not the level of support, but the change in that level. There is cause and effect going on.

#53: I would think demographics are playing a big part in the change. As white people become an increasingly smaller percentage of the population, any individual white person will have more contact with classmates, coworkers, friends, neighbors and relatives who are people of color. It's one thing for a white person to read about discrimination in a newspaper or hear about it in a tv report, but it's another to see it happening to your biracial brother, your child, your spouse or your friend.

According to a Baltimore Sun article from 2017: "Whites are now the numerical minority in a half dozen states, and they will be the nation's numerical minority in a little more than 25 years. And now, for the first time ever, there are fewer white than nonwhite children under 10 years of age."

"This is a significant change. The U.S. population has been predominantly white since the founding of Jamestown in 1607. As late as 1950, whites accounted for about 90 percent of the nation's population, according to U.S. Census figures. But in the past six decades, whites' share of the overall population has dropped to 61 percent. Demographic projections suggest that whites will become the numerical minority in 2044, when the nation will become a majority-minority country."

https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/op-ed/bs...

I can recommend this article by Amber Ruffin entitled "The First Time My White Husband Witnessed Someone Discriminate Against Me for the Color of My Skin."

https://www.glamour.com/story/amber-ruffin-on...

Here's a relevant paragraph:

"It’s funny—years ago no one would have believed me about those microaggressions; now people are all over it. My husband is learning along with the rest of America. Today, in the Trump era, racism isn’t this abstract concept; it’s demonstrated by the President. Had Jan and I come to America in a different era, it would have been on me to prove to him that this exists. Now the proof is everywhere. It’s on the news. And everyone is a friggin’ activist, which is how it should be because the world needs work."

I agree with you that a change of 26% from 2015 to today is huge. I just checked, and the shooting of Tamir Rice happened in 2014. At the time I couldn't believe there was no indictment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tam...

What I am saying is not that all of the support is theoretical. What I am saying is that support often drops precipitously once concrete steps have to be taken. I would claim that what the quoted polls are showing is first and foremost an increase in Lippenbekenntnisse. My view may strike some as overly cynical, but I would claim I am merely being realistic. And I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong on this point.

For Kernenergieausstieg + Kohleausstieg Germany will needs thousands of additional wind turbines. I don't see anybody clamoring for any more being erected near them. Calls are increasing for them to be installed off-shore (tripling the cost), while people head for court when the high-voltage lines supposed to carry electricity from the North Sea to Southern Germany are routed near them. These power line projects have been dragged out for years already and are nowhere near complete.

The amount of renewable energy used to generate electricity is on the rise in the US, mostly because pure generation costs (cents/kWh) for solar and land-based wind are lower now then for any form of fossil fuel based generation. In California the amount of electricity generated from renewable sources is roughly on par with Germany on a percentage basis. But there is resistance everywhere, just like in Germany. Wind turbines kill Golden Eagles, solar plants interfere with rare desert species, reservoir extensions for additional hydro power inundate Indian spiritual sites, etc. We desperately need a new high-voltage power line between Northern and Southern California for better load balancing, but haven't made much progress in years.

It's not easy being green.

Re #56: As white people become an increasingly smaller percentage of the population, any individual white person will have more contact with classmates, coworkers, friends, neighbors and relatives who are people of color.

It may help, but take a look at California. We have been a majority-minority state for twenty years now. At present, non-Hispanic Whites comprise a mere 36% of the population, and are the second-largest population group after Hispanics. Yet many issues that have a racial component persist. As I learned from tonight's TV news, in the City of San Jose an African-American person is still 3x as likely to be arrested compared to a White person.

As I learned from tonight's TV news, in the City of San Jose an African-American person is still 3x as likely to be arrested compared to a White person.

Yes. Police reform and the criminal justice system was something the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s never got around to. The Civil Rights acts and the Voting Rights Act don't address those things per se. We still have today all white juries trying black defendants - 65 years after Emmett Till was murdered and his white assailants were acquitted.

OT #60: How does Germany compare with other states in the union, such as Michigan, or the U.S. as a whole? That would be more meaningful.

Those states compare less favorable, I suspect. As many relevant issues are decided at state level, each state gets to chart their own course. I don't have any influence on those decisions as a California resident. To tell the truth, I do not have much time to get informed about what is happening in other states, since California is a big state (larger than many nation states) with so many economic and social issues, I find it hard to keep up.

Re #62: It's not simply a question of representation. In San Jose, 3% of the population is Black, and 4% of the police officers. In fact the most underrepresented racial/ethnic group in our police force are Asians. An all-white jury would be hard to pull off in a city where just 27% of the population is non-Hispanic White.

"all-white juries" of course. I thought that looked wrong to me

It's not simply a question of representation.

No, it's not. Racism, and "systemic" racism even more so, is a most intractible problem. Even when you acknowledge that the problem exists, which is the first step for many white people who don't experience racism on a daily basis, it's not easy.

An all-white jury is an extreme example. With a murder charge, all you need is one jury member to change the outcome of a verdict. For the record, though, in the Trayvon Martin case in Florida in 2012, Zimmerman, the assailant, was acquitted by a nearly all-white jury. One jury member had an ethnically mixed background IIRC. If you are going to use the jury system then it should be "a jury of one's peers". What would the outcome have been if the jury had been all-black or nearly so? The same? I doubt it.

weiter zu #64:

But to get to the specifics of the present case... representation is part of it, but it also has to do with leadership. Minneapolis's police chief is an African-American. He immediately made the decision here to fire the officers involved and call in the FBI. That rarely happens when police officers are involved - this case was different. There is a powerful and long-standing resistance to disciplining and charging police officers for crimes they may commit. Without crucial witness testimony from these officers, many convictions of heinous crimes could never move forward, so there is a mutual dependency that exists between law enforcement, the DA office, and the courts. Police officers are generally aware of this and it emboldens their behaviour. Those with racist tendencies can use this state of affairs to act out their racist ideology with impunity.

I haven't seen the video of George Floyd's murder, but from what I've heard, the behavior of the officers is so egregious that it moves people to action.

What is so striking to me is that this individual officer could act so repulsively when he was fully aware that his actions were being filmed! This tells me that some officers believe they are essentially immune to any form of prosecution, regardless of the cruelty of their acts. The system of protecting police officers is entrenched, with many DA's part of the system. You can't just put a band-aid on problems like this. This calls for sweeping change. It allows for racism and other abuses to flourish, at least in some police departments.

This tells me that some officers believe they are essentially immune to any form of prosecution, regardless of the cruelty of their acts.

Until very recently, no belief at all was required, just mere factual observation. The elephant in the room is accountability of the police to their employer, the population of whatever municipality, county, or state that furnishes their paycheck. More precisely, the almost complete lack of accountability mechanisms that have teeth.

We have laws on the book that cut police a lot of slack, even though police officers are supposed to be trained professionals, e.g. "reasonable fear". This is reinforced by the actions of DAs and judges (as already noted), as well as juries (this is where we all come in). Further propped up by very powerful police unions.

Our current California Attorney General had to be taken to court to gain access to police records:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/05/17/court-...

A superior court judge on Friday ordered state Attorney General Xavier Becerra to turn over police investigation records requested by media organizations under a new state law, saying that an appeals court had already ruled that California’s new police transparency law applies to records created before this year.

Here, hm--us, if the Guardian's reporting is too positive for you. Straight from the Seattle Times:

King County Metro says its buses will no longer deliver law enforcement officers to protests

King County Metro Transit says its buses will no longer deliver law enforcement officers to political protests and demonstration sites.

The decision, announced Thursday by General Manager Rob Gannon, responds to public reaction, since the killing of George Floyd by Minneapolis police.

[...]

Metro buses weren’t used to transport arrested citizens, Gannon said.

Metro told Seattle Police Department on June 3 it would no longer facilitate requests to carry police, and law enforcement must go through the county’s Emergency Operation Center, Gannon said. Since then, he said, Metro decided that even if the emergency center asks, it won’t deliver law enforcement to demonstrations and protests.

Gannon said the county considered social justice goals that include dismantling racism, and “the role that law enforcement has played historically in our nation and continues to represent for many within the communities we are most called to serve.”

The new policy will still allow Metro’s involvement “if public safety demanded, such as following an earthquake,” he wrote.

******************************************************************************************

Great! Good for Mr. Gannon. Antifa? Nebulous left-wing radical groups? With the city bus system taking a stand, it looks more like a grass roots movement to me. Complete with street-art:

Kimisha Turner’s brush boldly stroked black paint around a cardboard cutout shaped like an arrow to create the geometric figures within the big “B” – the first letter of the new block-long mural emerging across the concrete on Seattle’ Capitol Hill, capturing a moment both in history and art.

From Turner’s “B,” near 10th and East Pine, 15 more white block letters measuring 19 feet from top to bottom, neatly spread 177 feet due east along East Pine Street, spelling out the cause that’s brought thousands of people to this protest on a hill:

B L A C K L I V E S M A T T E R, the letters read.

Throughout Thursday afternoon, artists – most of them Black — crafted their own unique renderings within each letter of the mural, articulating through artistic expression what the moment means to them.

The sprawling new street mural took shape throughout the night — from Turner’s B, all the way to the final R at 11th Avenue, which marks the block surrounding Seattle Police’s East Precinct that demonstrators now occupy and call the “Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone.”

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/sea...

Nochmal zu 43 oben:

"Das es keine Anzeichen dafür gibt, dass von Antifa gesteuerte Gruppen Capitol Hill in Seattle besetzen, heißt ja noch nicht, dass es sich bei den Besetzern nicht um Linksextreme handelt. Es kann sich auch um unabhängige, nicht unter der Schirmherrschaft von Antifa stehende, untereinander nicht koordinierte, linke Gruppen handeln."

*Die* "Antifa" ist keine Gruppe und keine Organisation. Letztlich gehört jeder, der sich *gegen Faschismus* wendet, zur "Antifa". Daher kann es auch keine von *der* "Antifa gesteuerte" Gruppen geben, und noch viel weniger ist es möglich, unter der "Schirmherrschaft" *der* "Antifa" zu stehen.

Antifa und Linksextremismus kann man sowieso nicht gleichsetzen. Auch gemäßigte Konservative können "zur Antifa" gehören.

Antifa und Linksextremismus kann man sowieso nicht gleichsetzen. Auch gemäßigte Konservative können "zur Antifa" gehören.

Nein, das halte ich für völlig unmöglich. Antifa kommt etymologisch von antifaschistisch und könnte etymologisch gesehen auch Konservative umfassen. Tatsächlich sind sie aber weit links sogar von gemässigten Linken.

I'm just trying to be sensitive to mordnilap and others who may prefer more conservative sources, or at least acknowledgment of the stance of liberal ones.

Konservative Quellen kommen mir weniger ideologisch vor. Bei linken Quellen wird vielleicht nicht gelogen, aber man verschweigt gerne etwas, wenn von Linken geliebte Gruppen nicht zu vertretende Sachen veranstalten. Wenn Migranten Autos abfackeln, dann waren es protestierende Jugendgruppen, wenn die Antifa Strassenschlachten liefert und Polizeireviere besetzt, dann waren es Aktivisten. Wenn aber Neonazis eine Demonstration machen, waren es Neonazis. Und wenn es eine verbale Auseinandersetzung mit Migranten gibt, dann waren es Menschenjagden ("Hase, du bleibst hier").

Neonazis machen keine Demonstration, die machen einen Aufmarsch. Oder habe ich den deutschen Pressegebrauch falsch mitbekommen?

Oben schrieb ich, dass die der amerikanischen Antifa Zugehörigen in Interviews durchweg linksradikale und linksextremistische Standpunkte einnehmen. Da ich kein Politologe bin, wollte ich noch präzisieren, dass ich mit Linksextremisten solche meinte, die den normalen demokratischen Prozess für unbrauchbar halten und stattdessen den Einsatz von Gewalt für legitim erachten.

Sorry, "truth hurts". Ben Finegold

Die amerikanische Antifa hat mit dem deutschen Antifaschismus nix am Hut. "links der gemässigten Linken" ist linksradikal, und da ist die amerikanische Antifa.

Auch gemäßigte Konservative können "zur Antifa" gehören.

Rein inhaltlich vielleicht. Aber ich bezweifle, daß die Konservativen in meinem Bekanntenkreis, die den Faschismus ehrlich und echt zutiefst verabscheuen, sich jemals als der Antifa zugehörig bezeichnen würden. Sie stehen der Antifa meist ziemlich reserviert gegenüber, weil sie schon deren Art ihren Antifaschismus auszudrücken nicht gut ertragen.

Es wird sehr lange brauchen, bis alle Folgen der Trump-Ära überwunden sein werden, innenpolitisch wie außenpoitisch. Man denke zum Beispiel an die vielen Richter im besten Lebensalter, die jetzt in Rekordzahlen berufen werden. Ich habe relativ wenig Verständnis, dass wir uns im Kontext internationaler Organisationen viele Extrawürste braten und sähe lieber den Ansatz primus inter pares, den ich für nachhaltiger halte. Aber das Problem gab es schon lange vor Trump. Er hat es lediglich verschärft.

Trying to find something positive I stumbled over https://us.cnn.com/2020/06/09/politics/voter-...

It seems that several of those organizers of protests start to offer voter registration.

[…]Warriors in the Garden formed after a dozen organizers met this past week during the protests in New York. And in that short time, the group has registered 400 new voters.

[…]Last week, Rock the Vote saw more than 80,000 new voters register through its site, the most registrations the group has experienced in a single week of the 2020 election cycle, Carolyn DeWitt, president and executive director of Rock the Vote, told CNN.

The youth-focused voter registration group also had 2 million impressions on social media and 25,000 new followers on Instagram. Its June election graphic, listing the dates of this month's presidential primaries, has been shared on Instagram more than 65,000 times.

[…]Voto Latino has seen similarly high levels of registration since the protests began, including in battleground states such as Arizona and Texas, exceeding its goal to register 20,000 new voters by June.

"From June 1 to June 8, Voto Latino registered 50,846 voters around the country online, with 42,940 of them from Texas. For comparison, from May 1 to May 8, Voto Latino registered 2,045 voters," Danny Friedman, managing director at Voto Latino, told CNN.

[…]

Let's hope that even more register in the battleground states and that all those newly registered voters follow through and vote in November.

#38: Trump habe einer "Ausweitung der Visa-Restriktionen" gegen Vertreter des IStGH und deren Verwandte zugestimmt.

Das ist ja wirklich ein starkes Stück: Was kann ich denn dazu, wenn meine Tante dort arbeiten würde? Vielleicht habe ich gar keinen Kontakt zu ihr und soll doch dafür büßen? Ich weiß doch gar nicht, was "meine Verwandschaft" alles so treibt, denn dazu muss ich erst einmal wissen, wie groß der Kreis gezogen wird. Gehören die Enkel der Cousine auch dazu? Wahrscheinlich nicht, aber um jemand Angst zu machen reicht es schon, denn es ist ja schließlich Verwandschaft.

Ich bekomme immer weniger Lust, dieses Land zu bereisen.

Re #92: I would hope that those who got registered get informed first before they vote in November. Knowledge of how cities, counties, and school districts finance their services could be particularly useful.

I will readily admit that, although I have spent quite a bit of time looking into city, county, and school district finances (mostly because there seemed to be a disconnect between how tax revenues were increasing every year and how little improvement in services I perceived), I do not have a solid grasp of all the mechanisms at work. Every time I have a conversation with someone who I think understands a certain aspect well from personal experience they usually tell me I misunderstood how that part works :-(

I did get an appreciation for how complex the system is and that one cannot easily move money around. I also understand that local political entities are close to being maxed out in their ability to raise additional funds.

Wählen ist fast immer ein "Schwerpunktesetzen" und aus zig verschiedenen Punkten in Wahlprogrammen und politischen Grundsätzen der verschiedenen Parteien diejenige herauszufiltern, deren Politik mir die Durchsetzung dessen bietet, was für mich am wichtigsten ist. Fast immer hat die Partei dann auch etwas im Programm, was mich eher stört.

Ich nehme an, dass die für die Neuwähler, die sich nun registrieren lassen, ein Ende des systemischen und Alltagsrassismus ein Punkt ist, der ziemlich prioritär ist.

Und ich freue mich, dass AGB nun erste Zahlen zu den Registrierungen liefert, nachdem hm -- us vor einiger Zeit schon geschrieben hatte, sie hoffe sehr, dass die Protestierenden sich registrieren lassen, und ich in nicht wenigen Videos Aufrufe dazu gesehen hatte.

Oben wartete ich auf eine Reaktion Trumps auf Milleys Entschuldigung. Die blieb wohl aus.

"The lack of a reaction inside the White House to Milley's apology may also be a reflection of Trump's personal affection for Milley."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/11/politics/w...

Es stehen auch noch ein paar weitere interessante Dinge in dem Artikel von "Fake news" CNN.

Bei amerikanischen Wahlen geht es aber nicht primär um Parteien und Parteiprogramme, sondern um viele Personen und viele detaillierte Fragen.

I agree with you to a certain extent. That's always been my impression, too, of German vs. American elections. On the other hand, a lot of Americans just vote straight ticket and that makes the decision entirely about party and platforms.

Of course, that approach doesn't work for the many Proposals/Volksentscheide on the ballot. And some elected officials are non-affiliated (with a party) - at least in theory.

You can't vote a straight ticket for the school board or the city council, as the candidates for those offices have no stated party affiliation (you may find out what their party registration is from other sources, but mostly you can't). In this area most of them are likely registered Democrats anyhow, so that knowledge doesn't help you pick.

In California, primaries that don't result in a clear winner qualify the top two vote-getters for the run-off, even if they belong to the same party. Since this state is overwhelmingly Democrat, you therefore often get to pick which Democrat you want. E.g. Ms. Harris or Ms. Sanchez for United States Senate. As you noted, propositions and measures have nothing to do with party affiliation. Usually we have ten or a dozen of those on the ballot.

Our American system leaves a lot more decisions to the voters than the German system. In order to work well, it needs (1) many voters to participate (2) well-informed voters. Right now we are falling short on both counts.

Doch wenn es zwanzig bis fünfundzwanzig Wahlentscheidungen sind, ist doch sicherlich eine nur die Präsidentenwahl, und dieser kümmert sich doch sicherlich nicht um Angelegenheiten regionale oder kommunale Dinge, oder

Natürlich ist da nur eine Entscheidung, die erste auf der ersten Seite, für President of the United States. Der Präsident hat aber keinen direkten Einfluß darauf, wie viel Geld die örtliche Polizei erhält oder wie sie mit Demonstranten umgeht, wie der Schulbezirk die Schulgebäude renoviert oder Lehrer einstellt und bezahlt, wie die örtliche Bibliothek oder das Jugendzentrum ausgestattet wird. Wie der Bundesstaat seine Kriminellen bestraft und unterbringt, ob das offene Tragen von Waffen erlaubt ist, wie das staatliche Unisystem aufgezogen ist, auch da hat der Präsident nichts zu bestimmen. Die Entscheidungen auf lokaler und bundesstaatlicher Ebene haben Einfluß auf genau jene Faktoren, die die Protestierenden momentan lautstark kritisieren. Da muss man sich folglich auskennen.

Wer Änderung vor Ort will, muss sich schlau machen und entsprechend wählen, bzw. für ein Amt kandidieren.

You can't vote a straight ticket for the school board or the city council, as the candidates for those offices have no stated party affiliation

I did state that in my post.

Also, I believe that which candiates are non-affiliated varies from state to state or even county to county. I have never voted in another state, but it is the states that ultimately decide these things. Education is a matter of the states and local governments. At any rate, that does not invalidate my point about straight ticketing, which is practiced by many citizens for precisely the reasons you stated. It's difficult to be well-informed about all the candidates personally on election day. Straight ticketing eliminates this need.

In order to work well, it needs (1) many voters to participate (2) well-informed voters.

I'd say those two points are true for any democracy.

bei jeder einzelnen für politisch weit auseinander liegende Dinge stimmen, eben nur alles im selben Moment.

Die zu treffenden Wahlentscheidungen sind von einander komplett unabhängig. Jeder zu Auswahl stehende Kandidat kann gewählt werden, man kann sogar oft selbst einen Kandidaten auf einer leeren Linie eintragen ("write-in candidate"). Bei Vorwahlen kann man natürlich nur für Kandidaten stimmen, die der Partei angehören, für die man registriert ist. Es sei denn, die Partei erlaubt auch anderen Wählern die Teilnahme ("open primary"). Ich selbst bin für keine Partei registriert.

At any rate, that does not invalidate my point about straight ticketing, which is practiced by many citizens for precisely the reasons you stated.

That may well be so in other states, agreed. It doesn't really help in a state that has effective one-party rule like California (both houses of the legislature and the entire executive are firmly in Democratic hands).

I'd say those two points are true for any democracy.

They are especially important in a system where many individual decisions are left to the voters, as is the case in California. Some really bad decisions were made (e.g. Three Strikes Law) because many voters failed to fully understand the ramifications of their decision. "Tough on crime sounds good, let's vote 'yes'."

https://time.com/5851499/police-unions-protests/

'We As Professionals Are Under Assault.' How the George Floyd Protests Are Shifting Power Away From Police Unions

For more than half a century, police unions have successfully protected laws favorable to their officers by courting local politicians and maintaining leverage through a strong member base willing to go on strike.

[...]

The most tangible influence of police unions is in city and state legislatures, experts say, since that’s where police departments are regulated.

[...]

The year before the DOJ investigation was published, Campaign Zero, a group formed to combat police brutality after the protests in Ferguson, Missouri, analyzed the police contracts in 81 U.S. cities. It identified six common measures in them that impeded accountability: limiting the time frame to submit a misconduct complaint; limiting when an officer can be interrogated; providing officers with information inaccessible to civilians; limiting oversight structures; and preventing previous misconduct from being retained in an officers’ file. In more than a dozen states, these contracts are reinforced by state laws, providing an extra layer of protection.

@Amy: Thanks so much for the info. It's hard for me to keep up with things politically in MI. The last shock I got was the gerrymandering proposal on the ballot in 2018 (? IIRC) I had no idea that my home state was one of the most gerrymandered in the nation. Everything is skewed toward keeping Republicans in power. After plans were announced for a ballot proposal to abolish the then current system and set up a new system that would draw voting districts in a non-partisan way (it was based on the CA model IIRC), Republicans then launched an extended court battle to keep the proposal from appearing on the ballot. They were aided by the Michigan Chamber of Commerce - a frequent, staunch, and well-funded ally of the Republican Party. The matter went all the way to the Michigan Supreme Court where the Republicans lost. MI voters were thus able to cast their vote on the matter in November. It's easy to see why Republicans fought so hard to keep the measure off the ballot - with over 60 percent approval it passed easily. The Republicans are now seeking to block its implementation in federal court. Now that's chutzpah! Because this new case will not be decided before the next election they are seeking an injunction against the implementation, without any luck so far. That's the latest I've read.

Apparently more voters in Michigan selected Democrats than Republicans on straight ticket voting,

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought that this would be a partisan preference. It makes me wonder about all sorts of things. Is this consistently the case or maybe just in the last couple of election cycles? What about other states? Does it have to do maybe with which party controls the state's legislature? Fragen über Fragen.

Wortwiederholungsangst (great word!)

OOT/ Yes, and I suggest "word-repetition-phobia" as a translation... ;-)

@wupper: Chutzpah isn't the word for it. Well, they got what they wanted. This is from a Detroit Free Press article from October 2019:

WASHINGTON – The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday officially overturned a ruling which had called for nearly three dozen congressional and legislative districts in Michigan to be redrawn because they unfairly helped one political party.

The decision — which vacated an earlier ruling made by a three-judge panel by the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati — had been widely expected since the Supreme Court decided in June that it would allow state courts to decide questions about political boundary lines rather than ruling on them itself. 

"Partisan gerrymandering claims present political questions beyond the reach of the federal courts," Chief Justice John Roberts wrote in that decision involving cases brought regarding political boundary lines drawn in Maryland and North Carolina...That decision split the court 5-4 as Roberts, along with conservative Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh, found that no test has yet been proposed which is precise and politically neutral enough to indicate when "political gerrymandering has gone too far." Liberal Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagen voted against. 

The rest of the article can be found here: https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michig...

Emphasis mine. So we are stuck with the current gerrymandering until 2022, when the new commission will come out with the redistricting.

In other, more encouraging matters, I just got back from my first Black Lives Matter protest. It started at noon in my little town of about 8,000 people, where 90% of the residents are white. There were somewhere between 150 and 200 people protesting at various times (I was there for about 3 hours, but got there about an hour late). I chanced upon the protest on my way to the grocery store. The protests have apparently been building, and spreading to smaller, rural towns and suburbs, as this report says. https://www.michiganradio.org/post/blm-protes... Our protest today went off without any on-site hecklers, other than a few people who drove by (a few repeatedly) and exchanged words or gestures with the protesters. Mask usage among the protesters was nearly 100%.

Here is a partial list of towns/cities in Michigan with protests that have been held or are scheduled from just this past Friday into next week: West Branch, Saginaw, Flint, Holly, Mt. Morris, Oxford, St. Clair Shores, Dexter, Detroit, Keego Harbor, Grosse Pointe, Brighton, Romeo, Belleville, Berkley, Howard City, Hazel Park, Southfield, Ann Arbor, Pleasant Ridge, Royal Oak, Clarkson, Westland, Trenton, Taylor, Dearborn, Ypsilanti, Pinckney, Dexter. I found these announced on news sites. I'm sure if I were on social media, I would know about more.

Re #105: Die Links zu Obama von Norbert. Die ersten 2 verstehe ich als Schutz für die Kinder auf der Flucht, Schutz vor Vergewaltigung, Entführung und Organraub.

I based my post on general public perception and media commentary, not on my personal opinions. By many in the United States, "kids in cages" were considered scandalous when the situation occured for the first time under Obama. There was even more of an uproar when the same situation occured again under Trump.

When the term of a president ends, he obviously ceases to be the Commander in Chief.

Constitution of the United States, Article 2

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term [...]

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;

Amendment XX

The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin.

George P. Bush

I thought he was perhaps someone analogous to P. D. Q. Bach:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._D._Q._Bach

So at the very top of the ballot, there can be an option to select by default (in e-voting or on paper) all candidates of a particular party below, provided that no overriding individual vote is cast in the case of a particular office.

In an a comparable case, when publicly-traded companies take a vote on the nominees for board of directors on the occasion of their annual meeting, they sometimes have an option at the top of that section of the proxy form that says: "Vote for All". This always prompts me to apply extra scrutiny to the list of nominees because it seems designed to hide bad apples, in the hopes that many shareholders take the easy option of clicking that button instead of working their way through a list of five to a dozen individuals.

For the past few years we have been trying to vote mainly for women or minority candidates. But the annual reports make little effort to identify those, should they even exist.

All nominees for board of directors are described in sufficient detail in the notice for the annual meeting, rather than in the annual report. Sometimes these two documents are combined, but usually they are separate. As shareholders we are limited to vote for or against each nominee, we don't get to propose nominees.

The power to vote against a nominee is the more important one, and generally companies do react when a particular director consistently attracts a significant percentage (say 15% to 20%) of no votes. Just this year I noticed such a case at one of the companies I have in my portfolio.

Most American companies seem to have already made significant progress in diversifying their boards, much more so than companies in other parts of the world including Europe.

Further diversification requires board refreshment. That means kicking out some of the current directors to make room for new ones. I generally evaluate according to the following criteria: (1) Too old, generally > 72 years of age (2) Excessive length of tenure on the board, generally > 10 years (3) Serves on too many boards in total, i.e. > 3 (4) Background suggests lack of relevant qualifications for the industry or size of business

Caveat: Criterion (3) regularly snags some female and minority nominees, which then causes head scratching on my part. Most companies make efforts to hire competent candidates, rather than padding their board with light-weight candidates to achieve a semblance of diversity. Because the pipeline of suitable female and minority candidates is still quite narrow at this time, many well-qualified candidates that would increase board diversity therefore get invited to serve on many boards.

As convenient as straight-ticket voting was (I confess I have used it), it doesn't always produce the best candidates.

Some candidates have exceedingly poor qualifications, yet are propelled forward by family and party connections.

Sorry, but I don't follow those arguments at all. Straight-ticketing has nothing to do with which candidates appear on the ballot. If a candidate's connections propel him or her forward they will do that regardless of whether straight-ticketing exists in a state or not. Likewise, a corrupt candidate will/can get on the ballot regardless of whether there is straight-ticketing in the state. Straight-ticketing only affects how voters mark their ballot.

I do vote straight ticket and then usually write in a name or vote for the other party if a candidate is involved in some horrible, unethical or illegal behaviour. It doesn't happen very often so it's not a big deal. If a person is uninformed about the candidates at election time they will do no better or worse if they vote straight-ticket or if they are forced to individually select each candidate. If a person is not well-informed there is no benefit one way or the other. I find it very convenient as the list of selections one has to make is quite daunting at first glance.

Most counties in rural Michigan are so thoroughly Republican that the Democrats don't even field candidates for most of the offices. This leaves Democratic voters in a bind come election day. The only option is writing in a candidate. Sometimes this works if there is a concerted effort and the people are well-informed, but usually it doesn't.

And again, which candidates are non-affiliated is up to the individual states. There may well be trends, but it is ultimately a state matter. The board of regents, for example, for the two major universities in the State of Michigan are partisan positions. The board of regents is akin to the local school board, but at the university (and state) level. So even within a state it varies as to whether offices overseeing education are partisan or non-affiliated.

So at the very top of the ballot, there can be an option to select by default (in e-voting or on paper)

On old voting machines (in Michigan) there was a separate lever to pull. I don't know whether that's still the case. Straight-ticket voting is a salient feature of the American voting system that has been with us for a very long time. If too many people split their vote between the parties then you will get gridlock in Washington - Republican controlled House and Democratic control of the Senate or vice versa, or a Repulican president and a Democratic House - like we have now. I've come to think that is how at least some people want things to be. Stagnation.

If people are focused on voting for the person and not the party then the issues end up going by the wayside* and the election turns into primarily mudslinging and scandal-mongering. There has definitely been an increase in that over the years in American elections as I have observed them and maybe that has something to with the doing away with straight-ticketing. It's much easier to convice a voter that Candidate A is a horrible choice because of Scandal Z that they are involved in. It all takes place on an emotional level where people are easily swayed. Convincing that same person on the basis of specific policies is a lot tougher slog.

*or if they don't completely fall by the wayside they get reduced to simple soundbytes like "Tough on crime". Yeah. Who isn't for that?

I do vote straight ticket and then usually leave the box blank if a candidate is involved in some horrible, unethical or illegal behaviour.

I have no practical experience with straight-ticket voting. My understanding is that it allows a lazy voter to vote for a party's pre-selected list of candidates without having to spend any time pondering particular candidates. If that is not so, I withdraw my criticism. I want voters to be required to consider every position individually so bad apples among their preferred party (if any) can be weeded out before they rise further.

Most counties in rural Michigan are so thoroughly Republican that the Democrats don't even field candidates for most of the offices.

I used to be upset that the same is true, with the roles reversed, in most counties in California including the one I live in. That was when there were still sensible moderate Republicans left that I could vote for (and did vote for, in some cases). Now that virtually all Republican candidates are Trumpists the party might as well not exist, as far as I am concerned.

It all takes place on an emotional level where people are easily swayed.

I recall reading that most decisions at the polls are made at the emotional level, but don't have a paper handy to point to. Apparently most voters know little of the details of party programs or candidate's position statements.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/201...

In recent years, however, a growing body of evidence has shown that our political behaviour is governed more by emotions and less by rationality. The decision to go out and vote, for a start, is in itself an irrational decision.

straight-ticketing is not a strait-jacket

I understand that part. That why I likened it to a proxy's top-line choice of "For all candidates" vs. "Vote for nominees individually". I am always suspicious of companies that offer that selection (instead of just displaying the list of nominees straight), because I suspect they are counting on lazy shareholders to click "For all candidates", which makes it easier to hide questionable candidates among their nominees.

According to #113, most states do not offer straight-ticketing, so it seems we are flogging a horse that is near death :-)

I suspect our perspectives differ at least in part because I am an independent voter who has voted for Democratic, Republican, and third-party candidates. So I am very much a pick-and-chose kind of voter.

The decision to go out and vote, for a start, is in itself an irrational decision.

Ain't that the truth!

As a person that has been involved in a voter registration drive before, I can say that with some certainty. And I would like to add... as well-meaning as it all is in this forum, it is not very effective to keep harping on the need to vote and register to vote on an internet forum. If you want to motivate people to vote you need to do it in person, in real life. Motivating a person to do anything is difficult to begin with and you need real personal contact to be successful. If you really feel strongly about this and want to make a difference I'd suggest joining a registration drive group. Go out and press the flesh, talk to people face-to-face. Both of the major political parties have "ground games" and would be happy for all the help they can get. Or if you prefer to do it in a non-partisan manner there are many other independent groups that do this. The Internet and "social media" (I don't like the term, hence the quotes. A lot of it is anything but "social"!) may have had a greater effect in the beginning due to the novelty effect, but much of that has worn off in my opinion. I'm skeptical that you can convince many people to change over the internet. Sure it happens in some cases, but en masse? I'm skeptical. When you get down to it, human beings are sensual, analog creatures. That's what we respond to best. You can't undo tens of thousands of years of evolution. But this is way OT.

I used to be upset that the same is true, with the roles reversed, in most counties in California including the one I live in. That was when there were still sensible moderate Republicans left

I'm not sure if I made myself clear and I don't know what ballots look like in CA. By "not fielding candidates" it means they do not exist at all, they do not run - good, bad, or somewhere-in-between. On the ballot there is only one candidate and he or she is a Republican. There are no other choices except for write-in, which is a poor choice and pretty much throwing away your vote. AFAIK there are not any Democratic primary races for most offices in these counties. This is due to bad management and organization on the part of the DNC, in my opinion.The results of this can be seen in the 2016 election. DT swept rural counties in MI like they have never been swept before. Probably because the Democratic Party does not even have a presence in these places in the state. Poor organization and poor decisions. But I'm repeating myself.

@hm--us:

Yes, I understand that. My comment was aimed in general, not about the situation now. Sorry if it came across in the wrong way. On a personal level, a voter drive for expatriates in Berlin has unfortunately little effect. At the end of last year I was considering a longish trip to the U.S. to help in voter drive(s) in Michigan or possibly in some other swíng state. Those plans have been all but nixed now. :-(

My multiple mentions of the need to register and vote have nothing at all to do with a desire to convince any of the few American readers here to do that. I also suspect that would be carrying coal to Newcastle.

I have raised the issue with people in my neighborhood that I know and have learned that there are more non-voters among them than I had previously thought. Even there I am not trying to convince anybody, but just provide some information. People have to make their own decisions, plus I am spectacularly bad at "selling" anything. I am definitely the wrong guy for a voter registration drive.

I mentioned register&vote several times (FWIW, I object to characterizing this as "harping") to remind readers that polls, opinion pieces in the media, protests in streets, etc do not mean that things are going to change any time soon in the American political landscape, that nobody should assume that Trump will for sure be tossed onto the scrap heap of history come November, etc. Before any verbal statement of intention results in relevant action, there are two specific hurdles to cross.

[It's 4am and I am barely able to write a coherent sentence anymore, so I'll stop here]

I'm not sure if I made myself clear and I don't know what ballots look like in CA. By "not fielding candidates" it means they do not exist at all, they do not run

That is how I understood your earlier remarks. In this county, for some positions there is at times no Republican candidate on the ballot. Presumably in those cases, nobody wanted to step up to the plate, because there is no way they could win. Sometimes there is a Republican candidate, but they don't even have a website! And as I explained earlier, the top two vote getters advance from primaries if there is no clear majority, so now it is not unusual two have a pick of two Democrats (instead of a Democrat and a Republican, as in the olden days). Democrats have two-third majorities in assembly and senate, all of the elected state offices in the executive branch are occupied by Democrats. Effective one-party rule.

In einem neuen Kleinstaat in Amerika werden gerade Rassengesetze eingeführt:

https://twitter.com/ShawnG927/status/12717912...

@#99: Mich ... schockiert, dass bei den US-Bundeswahlen über Stadtverfassungen abgestimmt wird oder Anleihen des Schulbezirks.

Was schockiert dich daran, Reeva??

Ich glaube, man kann das getrost ignorieren.

Ohne belastbare Beweise, dass das auch umgesetzt wird, ist das heiße Luft ...

Ich bin nicht so sicher, ob Trump und die Justiz das ignorieren werden. Die sind manchmal etwas unentspannt. Falls Amerika das noch als ihr Staatsgebiet betrachtet, könnten sie das als extortion ansehen. So eine 100-fache extortion könnte beachtliche Bestrafung nach sich ziehen.

"Though states provide a wide range of penalties for extortion, the crime is most often punished as a felony offense. A felony is the most serious category of crime, one that is punishable by at least a year in prison and significant fines."

https://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-p...

Bin jetzt aber auch nicht der Jurist und schon gar kein amerikanischer, also, was weiss ich schon.

Im Wikipedia-Artikel steht jedenfalls nichts von einem solchen Gesetz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Au...

Ich habe den Link zu Twitter auch nicht geöffnet.

Re: Wahlen

Es schockiert mich, weil man sich in der kommunalen Politik um etwas völlig anderes kümmert als in der regionalen und nationalen. Es ist schon keine einfache Angelegenheit, sich über die jeweiligen Programme auf den verschiedenen Ebenen umfassend zu informieren, wenn die Wahlen zu unterschiedlichen Zeitpunkten stattfinden. Zusätzliche zwanzig bis fünfundzwanzig direkte Wahlentscheidungen bei eier Präsidentenwahl machen die Sache nicht leichter.

Ich habe auf den Link geklickt, und dann sieht die Sache schon völlig anders aus. Es ist kein Gesetz, es wird auch niemand bedroht, der Sprecher sagt ungefähr:

I want every white person who leaves this zone to give 10 dollars to a person of colour, especially a black person. Because if you can't do that, if you struggle with doing that, then I doubt you're ready to give up power and influence to a black person.

Der Tonfall ist auch so semi-ernst. Man kann das machen, aber man muss keinerlei Konsequenzen fürchten, wenn nicht. (Außer ein Heuchler zu sein.)

Es ist also eine symbolische Geste und ein (recht geschickter, wie ich finde) Hinweis darauf, dass echte Gleichberechtigung für eine Menge Weißer bedeuten würde, dass sie etwas verlieren. Wenn man sich also dieser Bewegung anschließt, sollte man bereit sein, einen Teil seiner Privilegien ab- bzw. aufzugeben und sich der Änderung der Verhältnisse für beide Gruppen bewusst sein.

Soviel zu "In einem neuen Kleinstaat in Amerika werden gerade Rassengesetze eingeführt:"

Es ist schon keine einfache Angelegenheit, sich über die jeweiligen Programme auf den verschiedenen Ebenen umfassend zu informieren, wenn die Wahlen zu unterschiedlichen Zeitpunkten stattfinden.

Das ist richtig. Das erste Mal, das ich gewählt habe, war ich auch schon zuerst überwältigt. Glücklicherweise habe ich per Briefwahl gewählt, sonst hätte ich das überhaupt nicht geschafft, glaub ich. Ich hatte Zeit, ein bisschen zu recherchieren und mich schlau zu machen. Es ist kein Wunder dann, dass die Schlangen da vor den Urnen so lange sind.

Zusätzliche zwanzig bis fünfundzwanzig direkte Wahlentscheidungen

Sind das dasselbe wie Volksentschiede bzw. Referenden? Wenn Du sowas meinst, sind diese Zahlen nicht typisch i.A. Im Bundesstaat Michigan gibt es z.B. meistens ungefähr vier bis fünf, würde ich schätzen. Manchmal ein paar mehr. Kalifornien ist da wahrscheinlich sowas wie Spitzenreiter, wenn es um die Anzahl von Propositions auf dem Wahlzettel geht. Es ist aber in jedem Zyklus anders. Nach meiner Erfahrung ist es nicht unbedingt die Anzahl von direkten Wahlentscheidungen, die es so schwierig macht, sondern wie sie verfasst sind. Die Sprache ist sehr schwer für einen Laien zu verstehen. Es liest sich eher wie Juristensprache oder ein Gesetzestext und enthält oft doppelte und dreifache Verneinungen, dass man am Ende überhaupt nicht versteht, um was es eigentlich geht. Will man nun eine Verhinderung blockieren oder die Verhinderung einer Blockierung stoppen? Wenn man sich nicht gut auskennt und nicht darauf vorbereitet ist, versteht man am Ende nur Bahnhof. :-(

EDIT:

Hinweis darauf, dass echte Gleichberechtigung für eine Menge Weißer bedeuten würde, dass sie etwas verlieren.

Exactly. That's what some African-American columnists have been pointing out these days. The protesters in Seattle are just acting it out. Everyone there - black, white, yellow or whatever - is there of their own free will.

Der Tonfall ist auch so semi-ernst. Man kann das machen, aber man muss keinerlei Konsequenzen fürchten, wenn nicht.

Ich hoffe, du hast Recht.

Es ist also eine symbolische Geste und ein (recht geschickter, wie ich finde) Hinweis darauf, dass echte Gleichberechtigung für eine Menge Weißer bedeuten würde, dass sie etwas verlieren. Wenn man sich also dieser Bewegung anschließt, sollte man bereit sein, einen Teil seiner Privilegien ab- bzw. aufzugeben und sich der Änderung der Verhältnisse für beide Gruppen bewusst sein.

Ja, rhetorisch recht geschickt. Ja, eine Menge Weißer, aber längst nicht alle Weissen sind privilegiert. Das ist die intersektionalistische Theorie, dass Privilegien und Benachteiligungen ausreichend durch Hautfarbe, Geschlecht, Herkunftsland, sexuelle Orientierung etc erklärt werden und deshalb durch Förderungen und Benachteiligungen gruppenweise ausgeglichen werden müssen. Deshalb die Forderung, dass alle Weissen allen Schwarzen Geld geben müssen, egal, wie arm der Weisse und wie reich der Schwarze ist.

Everyone there - black, white, yellow or whatever - is there of their own free will.

Das klingt etwas wie victim blaming. Wer freiwillig dorthin geht, wird rechtlos und muss alles über sich ergehen lassen. Selber schuld. Abgesehen davon, ist tatsächlich jeder freiwillig dort? Hat es dort auch Wohnungen und Arbeitsplätze?

Deshalb die Forderung, dass alle Weissen allen Schwarzen Geld geben müssen, egal, wie arm der Weisse und wie reich der Schwarze ist.

No. He's asking the people inside the zone to give 10 Dollars to a black person to make a point. He is not forcing all white people to give money to all black people. Did you actually watch the video? What you're saying is frankly absurd.

to make a point.

Der point ist Intersektionalismus und falsch. Nicht alle Weissen sind privilegiert und nicht alle Schwarzen unterdrückt.

Ja,  all white people to give money aber nicht to all black people.

Wie hätte ich es beschreiben können, wenn ich es nicht gesehen hätte? What you're implying is frankly absurd.

Zusätzliche zwanzig bis fünfundzwanzig direkte Wahlentscheidungen

Ich hatte bei LEO mal eine genauere Aufschlüsselung eines meiner Wahlzettel eingestellt, finde das jetzt aber auf die Schnelle nicht.

Wie wupper sagt, ist die genaue Anzahl der Entscheidungen von Wahlzyklus zu Wahlzyklus verschieden, je nach dem welche Ämter gerade zur Wahl anstehen. Die Anzahl der zu wählenden Ämter auf Bundes-, Bundesstaat-, County-, Stadt-, und Schulbezirksebene ist aber viel größer als in Deutschland.

Zum Beispiel sind auf der Bundesstaatebene nicht nur der Gouverneur und der Vizegouverneur zu wählen, sondern (zumindestens in Kalifornien) auch der Secretary of State, der Attorney General, der Treasurer, der Controller, der Insurance Commissioner, der Superintendent of Public Instruction. Und natürlich ein Assemblymember und ein Senator für die Legislative. Wir wählen Richter (ab). Wir wählen den Sheriff, den Supervisor für das County Board, den Vertreter beim County Board of Education, den Bürgermeister, den Stadtverordneten, den Vertreter für den Grundschulbezirk, den Vertreter für den Highschoolbezirk.

Bestimmt habe ich da noch einige Ämter vergessen. Zusätzlich zu den vielen Ämtern kommen dann noch die Propositions auf Bundesstaatebene (z.B. Todesstrafe, Legalisierung von Marihuana, Steuern, Anleihen) und die Measures auf kommunaler Ebene, also County und Stadt (Steuern, Anleihen, Änderungen der City Charter).

[Später:]

Add to the list of elected officials the following two tax-related positions: county assessor, member state board of equalization

From the "White people behaving badly" department:

https://abc7news.com/society/woman-who-called...

'I am deeply sorry': Woman who called police on San Francisco man stenciling 'Black Lives Matter' on his property apologizes

A San Francisco man said a white couple called the police after they saw him stenciling "Black Lives Matter" in chalk onto his own property. James Juanillo, who identifies as a person of color, posted a video to Twitter Friday showing his encounter with the man and woman, identified only as Lisa and Robert.

Re #147: I don't know. As far as I recall this took place in Pacific Heights, which I believe is one of the more affluent parts of San Francisco [*]. That may also mean a higher percentage of Whites among residents. I just found it remarkable that this happened in supposedly progressive deep-blue San Francisco after all that has transpired in the past two weeks. Apparently some people didn't get the memo.

[*] Google says: "Pacific Heights is a posh residential enclave known for its architecturally significant homes, including the opulent Spreckels Mansion and the 1886 Haas-Lilienthal house, a Queen Anne Victorian that’s open to the public. A pair of grassy hilltop parks, Lafayette and Alta Plaza, and the Lyon Street Stairs provide sweeping views of the bay."

Muss ich denjenigen wirklich ansprechen?

There is a reason why minding other people's business is an important part of the "Karen" stereotype.

wupper & Norbert

Danke für die Informationen zu den Wahlen.

Der Vorfall in San Francisco - dieses fix die Polizei rufen, wenn ein Schwarzer etwas tut, was mir nicht gefällt - erinnert mich daran, wie im Mai eine weiße Frau die Polizei rief, weil ein schwarzer Mann sie gebeten hatte, ihren Hund anzuleinen, so wie es in dem Teil des Central Parks, wo sie sich befanden, Vorschrift ist.

""Ich werde die Cops rufen und ich werde ihnen sagen, dass ein afroamerikanischer Mann mein Leben bedroht" – Amy Cooper steht mit ihrem Hund im New Yorker Central Park, als ihr diese Worte über die Lippen kommen. Gerichtet sind sie an Christian Cooper (der gleiche Name ist Zufall), einem Afroamerikaner, der ihr im Park gegenübersteht. Bedroht hat er die jedoch Frau nicht, sondern lediglich gebeten, ihren Hund an die Leine zu nehmen – so wie es Vorschrift in diesem Teil des Parks ist. Die Frau bekommt schließlich jemanden ans Telefon und behauptet erneut, dass ein afroamerikanischer Mann sie im Park sie und ihren Hund bedrohe – am Ende schreit sie fast. Das Wort "afroamerikanisch" betont sie sehr deutlich.

https://www.rtl.de/cms/rassistischer-vorfall-...

Was ist der "Karen" stereotype?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_(slang)

related discussion: Karens

Re #151: We also had "Permit Patty", a middle-aged White woman in San Francisco calling the cops on a black child selling water, and "BBQ Becky", a middle-aged White woman in Oakland calling the cops on African-Americans barbequeing in a park. And probably additional cases I don't recall right now.

Re #153: Just a few weeks ago an African-American man was handcuffed and held by five officers in Alameda (next to Oakland) for an hour after a woman called the cops because she saw him dancing in the street. In a video clip of the encounter taken by neighbor one can hear other neighbors shouting from their windows (or porches) that the man lives in the neighborhood, regularly exercises this way, and hasn't done anything wrong.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Ala...

Alameda police have released body camera footage of a confrontation with a black man who was toppled and handcuffed by officers after they approached him for dancing in the street. City officials are starting an independent investigation of the 7:45 a.m. May 23 incident that began after a woman called to report “an African American person in the middle of the street ... dancing and turning all around — obviously something’s very wrong, and I’m just afraid.”

obviously something’s very wrong, and I’m just afraid.

What? Dancing? In the street? Obviously something is very wrong, but the problem is with the woman, not the man dancing in the street.

The Puritans didn't/don't just want to ban drinking, they didn't like dancing either. Who knows what nefarious things that might lead to.

Early opposition to dancing in America came primarily from the Puritans, who equated the favored pastime with promiscuity and sinfulness. They did not go so far as to condemn all dancing as evil, but pointed out that "mixt" dancing, which included both men and women, led to temptation, especially the temptation to commit adultery.

https://www.americanantiquarian.org/Exhibitio...

Wurde dieser Artikel hier schon verlinkt?

https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2020-06/l...

Ein Interview der Zeit mit Lawrence Douglas. Hier ein paar Auszüge.

Professor Douglas, noch sind es fünf Monate bis zur US-Präsidentschaftswahl und niemand weiß, wie die ausgehen wird. Trotzdem haben Sie schon ein ganzes Buch über ein mögliches Wahlergebnis geschrieben. Es stellt die Frage, was eigentlich passieren würde, wenn Donald Trump knapp verliert, sich aber weigert, seine Niederlage anzuerkennen und das Weiße Haus zu räumen.

...

Die Verfassung und die Gesetze der Vereinigten Staaten sichern nicht die friedliche Machtübergabe von einem Präsidenten zum anderen, sie setzen sie einfach voraus. Sie gehen davon aus, dass es gut läuft.

...

Wenn wir das alles in Gedanken durchspielen, müssen wir auch berücksichtigen, dass Trump währenddessen ununterbrochen wütend twittern würde, die radikalen Demokraten und die linken Mainstreammedien versuchten ihn um seinen Wahlsieg zu betrügen, das Ganze sei ein Putsch, er allein sei der legitime Präsident der Vereinigten Staaten. Und er würde seine Anhänger aufrufen, zu protestieren, es würde vermutlich Gegendemonstrationen geben, Gewalt ist denkbar, sogar wahrscheinlich, und wir haben gerade erst in den vergangenen Tagen gesehen, wie dieser Präsident auf Proteste und Unruhen reagiert. Mit Gewalt, mit dem Militär. Das ist beängstigend.

Ich weiß nicht was erschreckender ist... das jemand ein Buch zu dem Thema schreibt oder das man sich die beschriebenen Dinge absolut vorstellen kann. Nicht in einem 'Schurkenstaat' sondern in den USA.

Wenn ich das Video richtig verstanden habe, gehört das Haus aber nicht Juanillo, sondern seinem Nachbarn,

Nein, das geht nicht aus dem Bericht hervor. Jaunillo wohnt aber in dem Haus. Die Frau (Alexander), die die Polizei gerufen hat, war eine Nachbarin.

Warum muss ich die Polizei rufen, wenn jemand im Auto schläft? Kann man nicht ans Fenster klopfen?

As far as I heard on the news, the driver had fallen asleep at the wheel, blocking the drive-thru lane of a Wendy's restaurant. Whether employees tried knocking on the window, I don't know. This is speculation, but the company may provide guidelines what employees are supposed to do in such a case. I saw footage showing the police knocking on the driver-side window, without any immediate reaction from the driver. The entire incident seemed to be very much routine up to the point at which police officers wanted to take Mr. Brooks into custody after he failed a sobriety test.

... dass Trump währenddessen ununterbrochen wütend twittern würde

Mir scheint, das kann man auf sich zukommen lassen? Wütend getwittert hat er ja während der gesamten Amtszeit und vorher auch schon. Ob die Spinner auf Twitter wirklich den Schritt vom Smartphone zur Gewalttat vollziehen, ist auch fraglich -- ein paar vielleicht...

I also don't see any overall benefit to tasers.

That's what I've been trying to find out. Reports say that Officer Rolfe fired his taser at Brooks (at close range). But did the taser work? There isn't any information about that. I have read that these tasers often don't work. It would be amazing if a drunken man who was tased on top of it, would be able to successfully wrestle himself free from two trained policeman. I'd also like to know the blood alcohol level of Brooks. That hasn't been released yet. The officers talked to him for 30 minutes before trying to arrest him.

I haven't seen any video, just some stills taken from them.

Re #162: This is tricky. In the Bundeswehr, I got some rudimentary training based on UZwGBw (Unmittelbarer-Zwang-Gesetz der Bundeswehr) and some other laws when being instructed for guard duty.

As I recall the rules of engagement, the person acting on behalf of the state (which has the "Gewaltmonopol") is allowed to exceed the level of violence by an attacker by one level. For example, when attacked with fists, the soldier on guard duty may fight back with a baton. When attacked with an iron bar, they may respond by use of their firearm.

Of course, that doesn't mean you have to respond in this way. Use good judgement, because you could be in serious trouble if you misjudge: "Der Wachsoldat steht immer mit einem Bein im Gefägnis".

I would assume that the rules of engagement are similar for American police, but based on observation accountability is notably lower.

It would be amazing if a drunken man who was tased on top of it, would be able to successfully wrestle himself free from two trained policeman. I'd also like to know the blood alcohol level of Brooks. That hasn't been released yet.

I saw most of the footage. Brooks wrestled himself free from the two officers. One of the officers reached for his taser, but wasn't able deploy it because of the narrow range (two feet maybe). Brooks managed to snatch the taser from this officer, then ran away. a few seconds int that, he pointed the taser backwards dirctly at the pursuing officer, who then shot Brooks multiple times at a range of maybe 15 feet. According to the news the breathalyzer test administered had shown that Brooks was slightly over the 0.08 limit at 0.1, thus unfit to drive.

"Der Wachsoldat steht immer mit einem Bein im Gefägnis".

No, I don't think American policemen ever hear anything like that in their training. They should, though.

Clarification #165: Brooks wrestled himself free from the two officers at the moment they wanted to put the cuffs on.

Also, please excuse the numerous embarrassing typos. Edith was interrupted by #166.

No, I don't think American policemen ever hear anything like that in their training.

I don't recall whether this is something that was part of official training. We were however instructed not to shoot to kill (by aiming for the center of gravity) unless absolutely necessary to preserve our own life or that of a fellow soldier. And given the amount of firepower we were carrying on our person while walking patrols and the very rudimentary training we received, it was kind of scary.

OK. Thanks for the info. What I read (last night) is that Rolfe did fire his taser at Brooks who then managed to grab the taser of the other officer (Brosnan) and run with it. Apparently both officers had tasers with them.

Brooks was slightly over the 0.08 limit at 0.1, thus unfit to drive.

That's what I was thinking... that it was probably borderline. They probably tried to ascertain how drunk (and dangerous) he was by talking to him. After 30 minutes they weren't sure and did a breathalyzer test. For an arrest they probably need concrete proof, esp. if it's not obvious.

What I read (last night) is that Rolfe did fire his taser at Brooks who then managed to grab the taser of the other officer (Brosnan)

Maybe I got that mixed up in my recollection, and what you read is likely the more accurate description. The whole thing happened very fast.

#167: center of gravity --> body center-of-mass

Found an article from roughly the time I served:

https://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-135188...

In der Vorschrift "Der Wachdienst in der Bundeswehr" werden die Soldaten zwar angewiesen, "nicht mit Kanonen auf Spatzen" zu schießen. Angreifer zunächst mit Fausthieb oder Gewehrstoß abzuwehren. Doch wenn ein Wachsoldat "nach pflichtmäßiger Prüfung der erkennbaren Umstände" scharf schießt, weil er sich von einem Unbekannten bedroht fühlt, der "zur Nachtzeit einen Stock wie ein Gewehr" auf ihn richtet, gilt das als "rechtmäßig". Vor solchen Situationen fürchten sich viele Soldaten, weil sie in Sekundenbruchteilen entscheiden müssen und deshalb der Gefahr von Fehleinschätzungen ausgesetzt sind.

Here. This belongs to #141. I couldn't find a link last night. It's from a week ago. There have been other, similar articles written expressing the same thought. This is the concept that the protesters in Seattle are vividly acting out. Blow's opinion pieces usually contain perceptive comments.

...

How will our white allies respond when this summer has passed? How will they respond when civil rights gets personal and it’s about them and not just punishing the white man who pressed his knee into George Floyd’s neck? How will they respond when true equality threatens their privilege, when it actually starts to cost them something? [wupper's bold]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/opinion/wh...

How will they respond when true equality threatens their privilege, when it actually starts to cost them something?

That's a very interesting point, and something that was clear to me in the context of climate change, but, I admit, had not occurred to me in respect of structural racism. I fear that many well-meaning supporters of progressive causes will quietly disappear when push comes to shove.

How will they respond when true equality threatens their privilege, when it actually starts to cost them something?

Ich habe so im Hinterkopf, dass man bei vielen glühenden Feministen irgendwann gehört hat, dass sie sich besonders dreckig gegenüber Frauen verhielten. Als drittklassiger Hinterhofpsychologe vermute ich einen Kompensationsmechanismus: Man weiss um die dreckige Realität, die man nicht ändern kann, also baut man eine umso schönere Fassade auf, um das psychisch aushalten zu können. Bei der Unterstützung Schwarzer wird es nicht viel anders sein.

und eine Frau weiter hinter in der Schlange verlangt lautstark, dass der Mann die Schlange verlässt, weil ja nicht sein kann, dass ein Farbiger First class-Passagier ist.

eineing, laut dem Link, den du unten angibst, ist auch das nicht ganz richtig. Er postet die Begegnung auf FB und schreibt:

Sie [versucht sich vorzudrängeln]: Excuse me, I believe you may be in the wrong place. You need to let us through. This line is for priority boarding.

Er zeigt dann sein Ticket, und sie sagt:

He must be military or something, but we paid for our seats so he still should have to wait

Daraufhin sagt er lakonisch: Nope, to big to ever be in anybody's military. I'm just a nigga with money

Da es nur transkribiert ist, fehlt natürlich jeglicher Tonfall, aber ich würde das jedenfalls nicht unter 'verlangt lautstark, dass er die Schlange verlässt' zusammenfassen.

Nicht, dass ich die Frau nicht für blöde, rassistisch und ohne Manieren halte, aber ich finde es schon wichtig, dass solche Vorfälle so genau wie möglich wiedergegeben werden. Immer alles möglichst dramatisch aufbereiten hilft weder der Sache noch dem allgemeinen Diskurs.

62 Tage hatte der US-Amerikaner Michael Flor in einem Krankenhaus in Issaquah, Washington, ums Überleben gekämpft./.../ Sein Herz, seine Nieren und auch die Lunge drohten zu versagen.Doch Flor, 70 Jahre alt, überlebte. Als er das Krankenhaus im Rollstuhl verlassen konnte, standen die Mitarbeiter der Klinik Spalier um ihm zu applaudieren.

Seitdem erholt sich der Familienvater in seinem Haus in West Seattle. Dort erhielt er kürzlich einen Brief, wie die "Seattle Times" berichtet. Das Schreiben enthielt seine Krankenhausrechnung - 181 Seiten lang./.../Für seine Behandlung hatte die Klinik mehr als 1,1 Million US-Dollar berechnet./...

/Unklar ist derzeit aber, ob und wie viel Geld der 70-Jährige aus eigener Tasche zahlen muss. Laut "Seattle Times" ist Flor über "Medicare", eine Krankenversicherung für ältere oder behinderte Menschen in den USA, abgesichert. Möglicherweise greift bei Flor auch der Beschluss des US-Kongresses, wonach die Krankenhäuser für die Behandlung von Covid-19-Patienten zu entschädigen sind. Um die enormen Kosten für die Gesundheitsversorgung abzufedern, stehen rund 100 Milliarden US-Dollar bereit.

https://www.stern.de/gesundheit/usa--corona-u...

Hat dieses Krankenhaus in Seattle außergewöhnlich hohe Preise oder sind sie repräsentativ? Wenn letzteres zutrifft, wird mir bei den Gesamtkosten für die Pandemie bei zur Zeit fast 2,2 Millionen Infizierten ganz schwindlig. Zwar müssen bei Weitem nicht alle überhaupt ins KH, doch die Zahl der Intensivpatienten liegt auch heute noch bei 16716.

Laut Stern stehen 100 Milliarden Dollar bereit, um die Kosten abzufedern. Aber die sind ja auch nicht vom Himmel geregnet. Ebenso werden die Krankenversicherungen versuchen, ihre enormen Kosten wieder einzuholen.

Hat dieses Krankenhaus in Seattle außergewöhnlich hohe Preise oder sind sie repräsentativ?

Ob das repräsentativ ist, lässt sich schwer sagen, da amerikanische Krankenhäuser Weltmeister der Geheimhaltung sind, wenn es um ihre internen Preislisten geht. Das ist wie Einkaufen im Supermarkt, wo einem die Preise der Waren erst an der Kasse mitgeteilt werden.

Die Spannbreite für die gleiche Leistung zwischen verschiedenen Einrichtungen und Landesteilen kann schon mal Faktor drei zwischen billigsten und teuersten Anbieter betragen. Ganz grob kann man wohl für einen Tag in einer Intensivstation mit maschineller Beatmung 5.000 Dollar Listenpreis ansetzen. Wieviel Rabatt die Versicherung heraushandelt, wird verschieden sein. Als ich in der Vergangenheit eine sehr gute Versicherung hatte, waren es ziemlich genau 50%, und vom Rest hat die Versicherung auch fast alles übernommen. Warum 181 Seiten? Jede Pille, jeder Beutel Kochsalzlösung für Infusion, jeder Slice einer Tomographie wird einzeln in Rechnung gestellt.

62 Tage hatte der US-Amerikaner Michael Flor in einem Krankenhaus in Issaquah, Washington, ums Überleben gekämpft./.../Für seine Behandlung hatte die Klinik mehr als 1,1 Million US-Dollar berechnet./...

Das sind 17'742 USD pro Tag. Was kostet ein Tag auf der Intensivstation?

Ziele dieser Studie waren die Bestimmung der tatsächlichen Kosten pro Intensivbehandlungstag in Deutschland auf der Basis von Routinedaten eines computergestützten Patienten-Daten-Management-Systems sowie die Analyse der hauptsächlichen Kostenverursacher. Dabei sollte zwischen Tagen mit und ohne maschineller Beatmung differenziert werden. ...

Die durchschnittlichen Kosten/ITS-Tag betrugen 1265 EUR, für ITS-Tage ohne maschinelle Beatmung 1145 EUR und 1426 EUR für ITS-Tage mit maschineller Beatmung. 

https://www.springermedizin.de/kosten-der-int...

Die Studie ist mit Daten von 2006, anderes Land, andere Währung, war wohl auch ein besonders schwerer Fall, aber ich wüsste nicht, warum das in den USA zehnmal so teuer sein sollte.

People wearing masks during a protest last month in Tulsa, Okla. The number of active coronavirus cases in Tulsa County reached record levels this week.

[...]

That spike has local officials and public health experts concerned about welcoming the nation’s first indoor mass gathering since Mr. Trump declared a national emergency in mid-March, an influx of thousands of people interacting inside and outside, amounting to a sprawling coronavirus petri dish.

“There’s just nothing good about this, and particularly in an enclosed arena,” said Karen Keith, a Tulsa County commissioner who oversees the area where the rally is supposed to take place.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/16/us/politic...

It looks like this big DT rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, is going to be a doozy. But participators all have to sign a liability waiver if they want to attend so what does DT care if a couple dozen of them contract the disease? The campaign will be handing out masks and hand sanitizer, which is a good thing, but no one is actually required to wear the masks or use the sanitizer. We'll see how that works out.

“That virus, I guarantee you, will be present at the event — someone will bring it,” said Dr. William Schaffner, an infectious disease expert at Vanderbilt University Medical Center. “The Covid virus knows no political affiliation. What it does love is large groups, indoors, close to each other for prolonged periods of time chanting and yelling.”

QdW: Was verbieten? Einem König kann man nichts verbieten. Jetzt versuchen sie ihn umzustimmen bzw. anzuflehen.

Das Gesundheitsamt Bottrop-Nord könnte jedenfalls eine Parteiversammlung der CDU

Das ist aber keine Parteiversammlung in Tulsa. Zu dieser Veranstaltung kommen nur DT und seine Anhänger - ganz intim. Die SZ nennt es eine "Wahlkampfveranstaltung", auch eine "Kundgebung". Ich kenne Kundgebungen hauptsächlich in Verbindung mit Demonstrationen. DT veranstaltet aber keine Demos, es sei denn, man betrachtet seine ganze Amtszeit als eine Art Dauerdemonstration.

Ich halte die Wortwahl Kundgebung nicht für falsch. Gerade als Parteiveranstaltung mit auswärtigen Rednern (z.B. Spitzenkandidat) findet man die Kundgebung ohne Demo. Und während eine Kundgebung meist unter freiem Himmel stattfindet, gibt es auch solche, die in einem Saal oder einer Halle stattfinden, je nach Wetter, Größe der Partei und des Veranstaltungsortes.

Das Trump die Führung seiner Amtsgeschäfte auch als permanente Wahlkampagne versteht, wird schon dadurch deutlich, dass er direkt nach der Amtseinführung ganz offiziell die Kampagne für seine Wiederwahl gestartet hat. Wikipedia: "He began spending his reelection effort within weeks of his election and officially filed his campaign with the Federal Election Commission on the day of his inauguration."

Re Tulsa:

Ich hatte in der französischen Ausgabe der Huffington Post gelesen, dass DT nicht nur die Bitten der Gesundheitsbehörden abgewiesen hat, sondern nun statt 22000 Teilnehmern 62000 zulassen möchte, indem er eine Nachbarhalle dazu nimmt. Jeder sei schließlich selbst für seine Gesundheit verantwortlich und eine Million Fans hätten sich um eine Eintrittskarte bemüht.

"Donald Trump, qui compte sur un grand meeting électoral à Tulsa, dans l’Oklahoma, pour lancer réellement sa campagne de réélection, a rejeté ce lundi 16 juin les appels à son annulation à cause des risques de Covid-19, annonçant même vouloir en tripler la taille.

“Nous avons une scène de 22.000 places, mais je pense que nous allons aussi utiliser la salle des congrès voisine et elle pourra contenir 40.000 personnes”, a indiqué le président américain à des journalistes à la Maison Blanche."

https://www.huffingtonpost.fr/entry/coronavir...

Ich verlinke einfach auf Reeva Beitrag zur Situation in Brasilien aus dem Corona-Faden.

Siehe auch: Corona die 25. - Informationsaustausch, Erfah... - #179

So allmählich vermengulieren sich Trump, Brextit und Corona ;-)

... ein Aufruf an das amerikanische Volk, keinen geriebenen Käse mehr zu kaufen.

Eine andere Interpretation: “Make America grate again” = Lass es in Amerika wieder knirschen (wie die Zahnräder bei einem schlecht ausgeführten Gangwechsel). Irgendwie passt das schon.

Ein ganz fieser Seitenhieb vom Konkurennten Biden könnte es sein, wenn er dem Volk versprechen würde: Make America Great Again!