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  • Betrifft

    Falsche Feinde

    Kommentar
    Unrelated words spelled alike in two languages could be called "False Enemies" (by analogy with False Friends which are something else). I have been collecting such "False Enemies" for fun, but also for a serious purpose--they need to be flagged as "noise words" for context analysis in a multi-lingual environment. Anyway, here's my German list so far, I wonder if you can help me come up with some more:

    also an as back bad bald boot die elf fall fast funk hat hell her hut kind laden lied links mach mag man minder not rad schmuck tier tripper

    From the example, you can probably see what I mean. The rules are that a word must be spelled identically in both English and German but have different derivations. "Bad" is on the list because it has two unrelated meanings, and really comes from two different origins. As far as the spelling, we'll make an exception for accented words--you can ignore umlauts and we'll still call it the same word, and you can also ignore capitalization of nouns.

    "Butter" is not a candidate for this list, because the word in each language has the same origin (and happens to mean the same thing).

    Words that have the same origin (not necessarily spelled identically) but which mean different things in two languages are often a source of problems for language learners and are called "False friends" (deceptive cognates). I can't think of a good German example of "False Friends" right now, but "exhibition", "plan", "lecture" and "agenda" are examples of English/French "Faux Amis" because they do have the same origin but mean different things. These are excluded from the "False Enemies".

    Now please put on your thinking caps, and help me find some more!
    VerfasserPeter02 Jul. 02, 06:11
    Kommentar
    Made, rot, rein, Teller, Bier, dick, bin, flog

    Als "false friends" fallen mir gerade eventuell - eventual, actual - aktuell ein.
    #1VerfasserIngrid02 Jul. 02, 08:31
    Kommentar
    Tag, Ton
    #2VerfasserStefan02 Jul. 02, 10:05
    Kommentar
    alter, art, herd, hose, mode, page, plane, rain, rest, sage, see, sense, tee, war, was, wider
    #3Verfasserstefan <at>02 Jul. 02, 10:26
    Kommentar
    gift, chef, will

    die fallen mir spontan ein, bin mir aber nicht sicher of F.F. oder F.E.
    #4VerfasserJulia02 Jul. 02, 10:37
    Kommentar
    gaffer, dose, ring, roman, toll
    #5VerfasserES02 Jul. 02, 19:52
    Kommentar
    angel, bake, bug, drum, glut, grab, gram, gut, herb, hold, lot, mist, mole, most, nun, rat, siege, sole, spur
    #6Verfasserstefan <at>02 Jul. 02, 21:03
    Kommentar
    after?
    #7VerfasserStefan03 Jul. 02, 07:31
    Kommentar
    spanner, brief
    #8VerfasserRonald03 Jul. 02, 08:41
    Kommentar
    These are great!! I never would've thought of most of them. Keep 'em coming!
    #9VerfasserPeter03 Jul. 02, 09:22
    Kommentar
    bang, fell, fetter, fink, last
    latte (for coffee, even though it is Italian)
    #10VerfasserES03 Jul. 02, 10:16
    Kommentar
    anger, born, email, fade, fee, first, fond, fund, hall, hub, kitten, list, lose, mitten, same, span, stern, summer, taste, tor
    #11Verfasserstefan <at>03 Jul. 02, 10:53
    Kommentar
    handy
    #12Verfassert.n.03 Jul. 02, 11:48
    Kommentar
    gehen auch:

    stab, band, brand, post, den, doll (as in "das is ja doll". ok eher Umgangssprache aber vielleicht geht es ja auch??), beet, null??
    #13Verfasserchrissiek03 Jul. 02, 12:26
    Kommentar
    tat, these, fort (?)
    #14VerfasserLinda03 Jul. 02, 13:09
    Kommentar
    bog, log, rang
    And how about the other word for a gorse bush, furze? (If I remember correctly; I won't comment on the German word)
    #15VerfasserLinda03 Jul. 02, 13:50
    Kommentar
    fern, fast, fasten, happen, mark, rock, sure, tick, turner, wade
    #16Verfasserstefan <at>03 Jul. 02, 14:19
    Kommentar
    Klosett - closet?!
    #17VerfasserIngrid03 Jul. 02, 15:38
    Kommentar
    I don't know who's having more fun: me reading the responses, or those of you unearthing these great examples!
    #18VerfasserPeter04 Jul. 02, 05:11
    Kommentar
    barren, turner, colt (?), boot, star (?), fix
    #19VerfasserMarc04 Jul. 02, 07:30
    Kommentar
    maul
    #20VerfasserMoritz04 Jul. 02, 09:03
    Kommentar
    am, an, bad, base, fug, gar, grind, hob, lade, liege, links, lob, not, spare
    #21VerfasserJulius04 Jul. 02, 09:15
    Kommentar
    moose,riff,pummel,rose,ire
    #22VerfasserIngrid04 Jul. 02, 10:22
    Kommentar
    #23VerfasserStefan04 Jul. 02, 11:14
    Kommentar
    gross
    #24VerfasserIngrid04 Jul. 02, 11:28
    Kommentar
    puff
    #25VerfasserIngrid04 Jul. 02, 12:42
    Kommentar
    muster, salve, spat, spring, stock, wort
    #26Verfasserstefan <at>04 Jul. 02, 13:24
    Kommentar
    posse
    #27VerfasserStefan04 Jul. 02, 13:29
    Kommentar
    pup(s)
    #28VerfasserIngrid04 Jul. 02, 13:51
    Kommentar
    link ("Das ist aber link!")

    von "jmdn. linken" (related discussion)
    #29VerfasserStefan04 Jul. 02, 14:37
    Kommentar
    spurt, falter, heller
    #30VerfasserIngrid04 Jul. 02, 15:00
    Kommentar
    boot, leer, nut
    #31Verfasserkarin05 Jul. 02, 09:51
    Kommentar
    Super! 174 words, and counting...

    And coming down the home stretch, the crowd is on its feet as the athletes enter the stadium! It's stefan <at> in the lead and closing in fast on the finish line with Ingrid in 2nd place and Julius and ES right behind her, followed by chrissiek, Linda, Marc and Stefan in the next group, and Julia, karin, Ronald, t.n. and Moritz rounding out the field. What an exciting finish, folks! These athletes are really going all-out, giving it every word they have, what an effort--let's have a round of applause!

    Here's the complete, unedited list so far, for your pleasure (and to make it easier to see if a word's been mentioned or not). More are always welcome!

    after also alter am an angel anger art as back bad bake bald band bang barren base beet Bier bin bog boot born brand brief bug chef colt den dick die doll dose drum elf email fade fall falter fast fasten fee fell fern fetter fink first fix flog fond fort fug fund funk furze gaffer gar gift glut grab gram grind gross gut hall handy happen hat hell heller her herb herd hob hold hose hub hut ire kind kitten lade laden last latte leer lied liege link links list lob log lose lot mach Made mag man mark maul minder mist mitten mode mole moose most muster not null nun nut page plane posse post puff pummel pup pups rad rain rang rat rein rest riff ring rock roman rose rot sage salve same schmuck see sense siege sole span spanner spare spat spring spur spurt stab star stark stern stock summer sure Tag taste tat tee Teller these tick tier toll Ton tor tripper turner wade war was wider will wort
    #32VerfasserPeter05 Jul. 02, 20:44
    Kommentar
    Great! It's the first time I'm the first in anything... ;o)
    #33Verfasserstefan &lt;at&gt;07 Jul. 02, 22:35
    Kommentar
    Ich fand die Beiträge in der "Falschen Feinde" List sehr amüsant. Vielen Dank, Peter, daß du diese Sache in Gang gebracht hast.

    Zuerst hatte ich Schwierigkeiten mit "gar" (hab ich inzwischen in meinem 2-Pfund schweren Webster's Dictionary gefunden), und "mag" - bis mir "girly mag" eingefallen ist.

    Hier ist meine Liste:

    brat, fang, hang, gab, gib (ein technischer Ausdruck im Englischen, Bolzen oder sowas), hole, limo (Limo im Deutschen kurz für Limonade, im Amerikanischen kurz für Limousine)
    mutter, singe, sold, talk, web, welt (wieder ein technischer Ausdruck, weiss nicht genau was es bedeutet, aber es steht im englischen Wörterbuch)

    "Limo" war eine Idee von meinen Kindern, die bis zum Kindergartenalter in Deutschland gelebt haben, seitdem in den USA.

    Noch ein lustige Beobachtung zum Thema "Falsche Feinde": Pizza Hut gibt es auch in vielen deutschen Städten. Der Name der amerikanischen Restaurant-Kette macht auch für deutsche Kinder Sinn: Fast jedes Pizza Hut Restaurant, in Deutschland wie in den USA, hat das charakteristische rote Dach, das aussieht wie - na klar, wie ein HUT !!
    #34VerfasserHans Wolff08 Jul. 02, 05:35
    Kommentar
    rand
    #35VerfasserMoritz08 Jul. 02, 11:56
    Kommentar
    dank
    #36VerfasserLinda08 Jul. 02, 12:00
    Kommentar
    Found two more:
    bat, ward ("er ward nie mehr gesehen")
    #37VerfasserLinda08 Jul. 02, 12:14
    Kommentar
    wetter, pike, ruck, brat, just
    #38VerfasserIngrid08 Jul. 02, 12:35
    Kommentar
    pate, store, blank, pulli (plural of "pullus" = young bird in the downy stage!)
    #39VerfasserIngrid08 Jul. 02, 14:28
    Kommentar
    fester, gilt, hag, hart, lunge, lurch, regal, stuck, tang
    #40VerfasserLinda08 Jul. 02, 16:41
    Kommentar
    trunk (The German version is rather old fashioned, but still in use: http://www.erbacher-brauhaus.de/trunk-1.htm)
    #41VerfasserStefan08 Jul. 02, 16:42
    Kommentar
    main (German side is a river, not sure if this counts.)
    #42VerfasserStefan08 Jul. 02, 16:49
    Kommentar
    lack

    And for easier reference, the words given by Mirko in the thread about false friends that I consider false enemies instead:

    artist(?), genial, labor, provision

    [http://www.leo.org/cgi-bin/dict/forum/forum.c...]
    #43VerfasserStefan12 Jul. 02, 12:31
    Kommentar
    wart (Wo wart ihr gestern?)
    #44VerfasserStefan16 Jul. 02, 12:40
    Kommentar
    Hamburger (as in opposite of Hamburgerin), stand, strafe, hummer (as in one who hums) - I'm digging deep now - that is the problem with reponding so late!
    #45VerfasserTerri16 Jul. 02, 20:45
    Kommentar
    held
    #46VerfasserDirkDUS18 Jul. 02, 10:43
    Kommentar
    Blase (OK, it's blasé in English, but close!)
    Fries
    Gang
    Glut
    Heck
    #47VerfasserSue18 Jul. 02, 12:16
    Kommentar
    wand, tot, lag
    #48VerfasserDirkDUS18 Jul. 02, 12:28
    Kommentar
    bratling (E: a little brat, D: vegetarische Frikadelle)
    #49VerfasserIngrid18 Jul. 02, 12:57
    Kommentar
    Thanks to all the returning contributors, as well as to newcomers Hans, Linda, Terri, DirkDUS and Sue.

    A note about accents, since Sue raised it: you definitely can include "blasé" or any word with an accent in either language, even if the other language doesn't have one (in your entry, please type the word that *does* have the accent).

    In the most recent entries, there were two duplicates, and a few entries which may be more "Falsche Freunde" than Feinde. I've removed the duplicates but except for that, here's the complete uncensored list of 229 words as it now stands:

    after also alter am an angel anger art artist as back bad bake bald band bang barren base bat beet Bier bin blank blasé bog boot born brand brat bratling brief bug chef colt dank den dick die doll dose drum elf email fade fall falter fang fast fasten fee fell fern fester fetter fink first fix flog fond fort fries fug fund funk furze gab gaffer gang gar genial gib gift gilt glut grab gram grind gross gut hag hall Hamburger handy hang happen hart hat heck held hell heller her herb herd hob hold hole hose hub hummer hut ire just kind kitten labor lack lade laden lag last latte leer lied liege limo link links list lob log lose lot lunge lurch mach Made mag main man mark maul minder mist mitten mode mole moose most muster mutter not null nun nut page pate pike plane posse post provision puff pulli pummel pup pups rad rain rand rang rat regal rein rest riff ring rock roman rose rot ruck sage salve same schmuck see sense siege singe sold sole span spanner spare spat spring spur spurt stab stand star stark stern stock store strafe stuck summer sure Tag talk tang taste tat tee Teller these tick tier toll Ton tor tot tripper trunk turner wade wand war ward wart was web welt wetter wider will wort

    I will monitor this list permanently, even months (or years) later (so Leo Team--please don't archive, or if you archive it, please allow replies indefinitely). So, keep 'em coming!
    #50VerfasserPeter19 Jul. 02, 04:46
    Kommentar
    strand
    #51VerfasserTerri19 Jul. 02, 06:59
    Kommentar
    It's funny, I start looking through every text I'm reading to find these enemies:
    blender, lobe
    #52VerfasserDirkDUS19 Jul. 02, 09:24
    Kommentar
    lager, loch, locker, lump.
    Yes, I am working my way through the dictionary! Work is so much fun!
    #53VerfasserSue19 Jul. 02, 11:38
    Kommentar
    mass/maß (does that count?), mode, moll, moos, mops, most, mull, muss.
    #54VerfasserSue19 Jul. 02, 12:08
    Kommentar
    I noticed there's no "Q" in the list yet, so you better enter "Qualm" as well.
    #55Verfasserweirdo19 Jul. 02, 13:27
    Kommentar
    natter, pest (false friend?), plump (false friend?), Po (OK, I'm really pushing it with river names, but we did have 'main' earlier!)
    #56VerfasserSue19 Jul. 02, 14:39
    Kommentar
    wie sieht's aus mit:
    Die Note - to note
    Das Ass/er, sie, es aß - the ass (sorry)
    #57Verfasserchrissiek19 Jul. 02, 14:39
    Kommentar
    It's OK, chrissiek, because an ass is also an animal like a donkey, not only a North American word for the posterior... Anyway, I have a couple more:
    quote (another Q!)
    raps
    Now it's time to go home. Tschussi!
    #58VerfasserSue19 Jul. 02, 15:34
    Kommentar
    Some more:
    male, bade, wage, met, turn, lore, leg, lager
    and, if it counts, spree (the river thru Berlin)
    #59VerfasserDirkDUS19 Jul. 02, 16:45
    Kommentar
    Probe, dies
    @Peter: Will you let us know when we've got'em all?
    #60VerfasserTerri22 Jul. 02, 08:20
    Kommentar
    They keep coming up: geld, lass, ding
    #61VerfasserDirkDUS22 Jul. 02, 09:12
    Kommentar
    They keep creeping up:
    geld, ding, lass
    #62VerfasserDirkDUS22 Jul. 02, 10:27
    Kommentar
    nicht witzig!
    #63VerfasserDer echte DirkDUS22 Jul. 02, 10:32
    Kommentar
    how about:

    source - der Quell / die Quelle
    to quell - bezwingen
    to quell sth. - etw. unterdrücken

    ? können diese zu der Liste der Q's hinzugefügt werden?
    #64Verfasserchrissiek22 Jul. 02, 14:17
    Kommentar
    funny, all those words!
    have another one: pro (dt->en per; en->dt der Profi)
    #65Verfasser22 Jul. 02, 14:55
    Kommentar
    speck, wink
    I think I'm out...
    #66VerfasserSue23 Jul. 02, 08:40
    Kommentar
    well, i think i found another one.....
    ...what about "routine"?!

    i think itŽs both, friend&enemy.

    ...and yeah, another one might be "cafeteria", again both.

    for now, bye...
    #67VerfasserDavid23 Jul. 02, 09:38
    Kommentar
    And a false friend: gymnasium
    #68VerfasserDirkDUS23 Jul. 02, 12:54
    Kommentar
    as - As
    duck - duck ("Duck Dich!")
    #69VerfasserRainer23 Jul. 02, 13:28
    Kommentar
    guck - der Glibber
    guck! - look! (umgangssprachlich, sueddeutsch)
    #70VerfasserRainer23 Jul. 02, 13:31
    Kommentar
    lore - Wissen, Kunde ...
    Lore - lorry
    #71VerfasserRainer23 Jul. 02, 14:56
    Kommentar
    rote (rote Bete / rote learning)
    #72VerfasserSue23 Jul. 02, 15:15
    Kommentar
    pro - per
    dafür - pro
    #73Verfassernik23 Jul. 02, 21:40
    Kommentar
    not sure if friend or enemy, a little special:
    !"moped"?
    till later, bye all :)
    #74Verfasserdavid24 Jul. 02, 09:37
    Kommentar
    yeah, my 3rd comment *s*

    and a "Q" word moreover:

    tadaaa: "queue"

    well, im getting "fond" of that :)
    #75Verfasserdavid24 Jul. 02, 12:26
    Kommentar
    hab' auch noch ein paar:
    dies, fuss, genie, jag, leg, male, pest, racker, tank, tote, wall, wetten
    #76Verfasserclaudia g.24 Jul. 02, 13:09
    Kommentar
    How many do we have by now?
    These don't seem to have been mentioned yet:
    braver
    eleven
    spleen
    glibber
    #77VerfasserLinda24 Jul. 02, 14:58
    Kommentar
    Since we've already had a few rivers: what about "Inn"?
    #78VerfasserReinhard II.24 Jul. 02, 15:19
    Kommentar
    ... and all of a sudden, the river Platte (in the USA) leaps to my mind.
    #79VerfasserReinhard II.24 Jul. 02, 15:33
    Kommentar
    range (=Reichweite etc)
    Range = minx etc (says LEO), german colloquial for not well behaved/wild young lady (Lauser...)
    #80VerfasserFlo24 Jul. 02, 16:23
    Kommentar
    ad - auch Freund UND Feind?

    ad - engl. advertisement
    ad - dt/lat. benutzt für "was ... angeht" (zB ad 3 - bezüglich Punkt 3 der Liste)
    Zählt das auch?
    (ok, ich suche noch nach besseren...)
    #81VerfasserAW25 Jul. 02, 18:36
    Kommentar
    griff, all, rind, mine, wink, frag, heft, grips, spiel, stile, fad
    außerdem, aber nicht ganz so schön:
    be (dt: Ton (Halbton unter "h"), engl. - ist mir gerade entfallen)
    mantel (gibt's das auf engl. auch ohne piece bzw. (laut LEO) clock?)
    kerb (dt. von kerben - to nick)
    traps (dt. von trapsen - to clump)
    Murks (dt. = botch, engl. von murk)
    So - genug für heute, zurück an die Arbeit!
    #82VerfasserAmelie25 Jul. 02, 19:18
    Kommentar
    PS: Auf deutsch gibt's die Silbe
    -bold (zB Trunkenbold, Saufbold)
    Weiß jemand, wo das herkommt? Hieß das mal so viel wie "Mann" oder ist das bloß Wortbildung?
    Tschüs
    #83VerfasserAmelie25 Jul. 02, 19:22
    Kommentar
    noch eins: nix
    de: coll. for nothing
    en: die Nixe
    #84Verfasserheller26 Jul. 02, 14:28
    Kommentar
    gut, lass, ...
    #85Verfasserwoody26 Jul. 02, 16:18
    Kommentar
    Every time I think we've got all of 'em, you guys continue to amaze me and come up with more!

    This time we had 7 duplicates within this group of additions since the last sort (dies, lass, leg, lore, male, pest, wink) and 3 duplicates of words already in the last sorted list (lager, mode, most) for a total of 81 unique contributions.

    Contributors since last sort: Amelie, AW, chrissiek, claudia g, david, DavidM, DirkDUS (der echte!), Flo, heller, Linda, nik, Rainer, Reinhard II, Sue, Terri, weirdo, woody (and anonymous)--hope I didn't miss anybody--thanks to all of you.

    To Terri: I won't know when we've got them all, I don't think anyone's ever compiled this list before! Maybe when Sue, who's working her way through the dictionary, gets to 'Z'!

    Sue: you're not out, you're just taking a break! Come back anytime.

    Linda: you're right, they haven't been. We're up to 311 now!

    Reinhard II, Sue, Dirk and others: rivers are okay, as long as in the other language it's not the same thing, so Platte is fine for example, and so are Po, and Spree and Inn (and Main).

    Thanks for the 'Q' words, weirdo (and Sue, and david).

    I won't worry too much about whether they're friends or enemies for now; if you're sure they're only friends then maybe better not to put them here, but if you're not sure, or if they're both, go ahead and list them.

    The complete list now stands at 311 (uncensored) words:

    ad after all also alter am an angel anger art artist as as Ass back bad bade bake bald band bang barren base bat be beet Bier bin blank blasé blender bog boot born brand brat bratling braver brief bug cafeteria chef colt dank den dick die dies ding doll dose drum duck eleven elf email fad fade fall falter fang fast fasten fee fell fern fester fetter fink first fix flog fond fort frag fries fug fund funk furze fuss gab gaffer gang gar geld genial genie gib gift gilt glibber glut grab gram griff grind grips gross guck gut gut gymnasium hag hall Hamburger handy hang happen hart hat heck heft held hell heller her herb herd hob hold hole hose hub hummer hut Inn ire jag just kerb kind kitten labor lack lade laden lag lager lass last latte leer leg lied liege limo link links list lob lobe loch locker log lore lose lot lump lunge lurch mach Made mag main male man mantel mark mass maul met minder mine mist mitten mode mole moll moos moose moped mops most mull Murks muss muster mutter natter nix not Note null nun nut page pate pest pike plane Platte plump Po posse post pro Probe provision puff pulli pummel pup pups Qualm quell queue quote racker rad rain rand rang range raps rat regal rein rest riff rind ring rock roman rose rot rote routine ruck sage salve same schmuck see sense siege singe sold sole span spanner spare spat speck spiel spleen spree spring spur spurt stab stand star stark stern stile stock store strafe strand stuck summer sure Tag talk tang tank taste tat tee Teller these tick tier toll Ton tor tot tote traps tripper trunk turn turner wade wage wall wand war ward wart was web welt wetten wetter wider will wink wort

    Your turn again!
    #86VerfasserPeter27 Jul. 02, 06:39
    Kommentar
    Bezirk
    #87VerfasserTerri27 Jul. 02, 12:40
    Kommentar
    Here are some contributions to the in meantime quite impressive list:

    quake (deutsch: Imp. singl von quaken);
    erst;
    else (deutsch: Frauenname);
    befall;
    gaby (engl. Trottel, Tropf; deutsch: Frauenname)
    gage;
    flatter (deutsch: Imp.singl. von flattern);
    walker (deutsch: einer der walkt - Verfilzen);
    lest (deutsch: Imp. pl. von lesen);
    lab (deutsch: bio, Enzym im Kälbermagen).
    #88VerfasserHeinz28 Jul. 02, 21:21
    Kommentar
    "brave".....
    ...von wegen "brave mädels kommen....";
    and "be brave!"....

    (ist viel leichter, wenn man ne geordnete liste sieht)
    #89Verfasserdavid29 Jul. 02, 09:24
    Kommentar
    haste, sud, such, teil, pack, tun, smoking, pump, welch, wen, werf, alm
    #90VerfasserLotti29 Jul. 02, 12:13
    Kommentar
    ...and we should not forget the amazing word "smoking".
    If somebody in the United States nowadays tells you with a firm uncompromising voice "No smoking, please", you better refrain from puffing up his apartment with tobacco clouds.
    On the other hand, if you receive an invitation to a party in Germany, saying "No smoking necessary", then you might come as you please. Provided it looks somehow decent of course. No formal wear required.
    "No smoking": I guess, man rather sollte zwei languages nicht durcheinanderputten...
    #91VerfasserHeinz29 Jul. 02, 21:28
    Kommentar
    Was für eine APARTe Liste das doch ist :)
    #92VerfasserLotti30 Jul. 02, 06:59
    Kommentar
    @Peter:

    Warum sollte man die Gross-/Kleinschreibung bei den deutschen Begriffen ignorieren? Anders als die Umlaute macht die G-/K-Schreibung einen grossen Teil der Unterscheidungsmoeglichkeiten im Deutschen aus und in diesem speziellen Fall koennte Sie zur Unterscheidung von den englischen Begriffen (die i.d.R. klein geschrieben werden) durchaus mit herangezogen werden. Sicherlich nicht fehlerfrei, aber zumindest hilfreich (IMHO).
    #93VerfasserRalph30 Jul. 02, 09:05
    Kommentar
    When river names are o.k., city names should be acceptable, too (always subject to the condition that the word has another meaning in the other language.

    I know a nice example: Worms

    (A couple of years ago, I read John Julius Norwich's "History of Venice". One of the chapters had the title THE TREATY OF WORMS (all in capital letters). At first, I didn't know what to make of this strange "Vertrag der Würmer" (in a history textbook!), and only when I read the chapter, I discovered that it was about a war which was terminated with a peace treaty made in the city of Worms.)
    #94VerfasserReinhard II.30 Jul. 02, 10:50
    Kommentar
    @ Reinhard II: You can't image the giggles that the 'Diet of Worms' produced in history class in high school...
    Anyway new words, including some dialect in both languages, some bad slang, and some 'scrabble words':
    Abo (is slang for Australian Aborigine, is derogitive, never use it!)
    Ab (11th civil or 5th ecclesiastical month of the Jewish calender)
    Em (in English, it is both a letter of the alphabet and a printer's measure; and I think it is Kölsch dialect for 'am', as in 'Em Telefonische' which is a 'Kneipe' around the corner)
    es (another letter in the alphabet)
    er (interjection expressing hesitation)
    horst (in German, it means eyrie; in English, it is a geological formation)
    reif (Scottish word for spoliation, plunder)
    #95VerfasserSue &lt;aus&gt;30 Jul. 02, 11:57
    Kommentar
    behalf, bitten, form, bunt, butt
    #96VerfasserLotti30 Jul. 02, 14:33
    Kommentar
    sack
    #97VerfasserDirkDUS30 Jul. 02, 14:56
    Kommentar
    lad, sag, half, grub
    #98VerfasserSue30 Jul. 02, 15:34
    Kommentar
    I don't want to spoil the party, but following our rules, I am afraid, we have to eliminate several words from the list, because they have the same origin. At least:
    artist,
    cafeteria,
    gymnasium,
    Hamburger,
    handy,...
    Those are really not more than "ordinary" False Friends.

    PS: What's "queue"?
    #99VerfasserSylvester30 Jul. 02, 16:51
    Kommentar
    @Sylvestor: I agree with you that artist and
    cafeteria don't belong here, but the others definitely do.
    queue up = Schlange stehen
    Queue = cue (Billard)
    #100VerfasserTerri30 Jul. 02, 17:23
    Kommentar
    bomber en=person (suicide bomber)
    Bomber de=plane (as far as I know)
    #101VerfasserFelix31 Jul. 02, 07:11
    Kommentar
    False false enemies?

    Sylvester is right - this party is a lot of fun, but what exactly are the rules of the game? It seems that some of the party guests (e.g. artist, handy, or gymnasium) are false friends, not enemies. They are at the wrong party, and should go to the "False Friends" party instead (which is right next door at http://www.leo.org/cgi-bin/dict/forum/forum.c...).

    What exactly are "Falsche Feinde", and what are "Falsche Freunde"? Let's look at the definitions given to us by Peter Czukor, the founder of this amazing discussion thread. Peter says:
    [Quote]
    The rules are that a word must be spelled identically in both English and German but have
    different derivations. "Bad" is on the list because it has two unrelated meanings, and really
    comes from two different origins. [....] Words that have the same origin [....] but which mean
    different things in two languages [....] are called "False friends" (deceptive cognates).
    [End of Quote]

    My paraphrased version of the rule: You find a German and an English word that have the same spelling. If they are cognates (i.e. have descended from a common ancestor), then they belong in the "Falsche Freunde" department. If, on the other hand, they derive from different ancestors, they are considered "Falsche Feinde".

    That seems to be a simple enough rule. The catch, of course, is: Who decides whether there is common ancestry or not? And how many generations / centuries / millennia do you want to go back? WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?

    Since DNA testing for words has not yet been invented, we need to turn to our Etymology Dictionaries (of which I always keep a few around - you never know when you need them). I spent an entertaining hour looking up various words from this thread (and yes, I do have a life).

    Consider the case of "gift" - which at first glance seems like the perfect "false friend". But English "gift" and German "Gift" do go back to the same Germanic root "gift", meaning "something that has been given". German "Gift" underwent a negative (pejorative) shift in meaning, whereas the English "gift" turned our more positive ("mejorative", not sure whether that's actually a word).

    Here are some more words found in this thread that have a common Germanic ancestor:
    after; blank; brand; fall; fang; gang; gift; hang; hose; laden; spring; stand; stark;
    web; will; wink
    A longer list of words have a common Latin derivation (sorry, Stefan):
    artist; braver; brief; fade (fatidus); fix; genial; genie; just; labor; mode; null; pest;
    post; pro; probe; provision; quote; roman; turn; turner; wall
    Here are words with common French ancestry: chef; queue; routine.

    Add to that the supposed "Falsche Freunde" where English words are borrowed directly from German: hamburger; lager; strafe. And the reverse list (German borrowing from English): handy; spleen.


    THE BOTTOM LINE:
    It turns out that more than 10 percent of all "Falsche Feinde" in this thread are cognates, and are therefore (according to Peter's rule) false "false enemies",

    Two more interesting examples of false false enemies (false enemies that should be in the false friends department):
    - English "kind" (both senses) and German "Kind" ultimately go back to the same
    Indo-European root *gen (and so does the -gn- part of the word cognate).
    - In a round-about way, the name of the American river "Platte" (see Reinhard's comment)
    is a cognate of German "Platte". French Trappers named the river Riviere de Plat,
    meaning "Flat River". French "plat" goes back to middle Latin "plattus", and so does
    German "Platte".
    #102VerfasserHans Wolff31 Jul. 02, 09:25
    Kommentar
    Hm, interesting. If it is the question "Where to draw the line?", one could as well ask "How to draw the line?" I mean: Is a identical spelling really a rule for a Falscher Freund/Feind? My favourite example is PREGNANT/PRÄGNANT. It's a real "false friend", like GIFT. This would mean that 100% identical spelling is not neccessary.

    And if so, I ask myself if GIRL and KERL are "false friends"... interesting connotation, btw.
    #103VerfasserJan31 Jul. 02, 11:03
    Kommentar
    Another interesting case:

    arm ==> poor
    to arm ==> bewaffnen

    But also "der Arm = arm". Don't have an etymological dictionary around to see if they derive from the same roots.
    #104VerfasserStefan02 Aug. 02, 10:04
    Kommentar
    arms (Waffen) <=> Arms (Eine der beiden möglichen Genitivschreibweisen von "der Arm")
    #105VerfasserStefan02 Aug. 02, 10:57
    Kommentar
    About the definition of False Enemies:

    Thanks for all the great comments. I have a precise definition prepared for you which should resolve all of the questions that have been raised, but I'm getting errors each time I've tried to submit it. I've saved it locally, and will retransmit it when this problem is resolved.
    #106VerfasserPeter &lt;us&gt;03 Aug. 02, 20:54
    Kommentar
    spinner - unless somebody shall dare to claim that these are cognates.
    #107Verfassernative speaker06 Aug. 02, 19:53
    Kommentar
    Of course they are, dear native speaker.
    English "spinner" is derived from spin (as in "spin goat's hair into wool"). German "Spinner" is derived from "spinnen", which has the same meaning, and is a cognate, one hundred percent.
    The meaning of "Spinner" (as in Verrueckter) goes back to "jemand spinnt Gedanken", d.h. "jemand gruebelt zuviel".
    #108VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;08 Aug. 02, 08:12
    Kommentar
    Vielleicht habe ich es ja tatsächlich überlesen, aber was ist z.B. mit Block/to block
    #109VerfasserClaudi08 Aug. 02, 09:01
    Kommentar
    Something which turned up in another query: Gaul.
    #110Verfasserweirdo08 Aug. 02, 09:06
    Kommentar
    Hans,you have shot me down,but how about this one: jammer.
    What can you do with that?
    #111Verfassernative speaker08 Aug. 02, 20:08
    Kommentar
    What about the word bob?

    Bob = bobsleigh

    bob = hängendes Gewicht
    #112VerfasserClaudia09 Aug. 02, 12:12
    Kommentar
    Born = fount

    born = geboren ?
    #113VerfasserClaudia09 Aug. 02, 12:14
    Kommentar
    old-timer = älterer Mensch / Oldtimer = veteran car
    Fusion = merger / fusion = Verschmelzung (allg.)

    hasten = hurry, hustle / to hasten = beschleunigen

    Helm = helmet / helm = Steuer(rad)

    Herd = cookind stove / herd = Herde

    Island = Iceland / island = Insel

    Kipper = tipping truck / kipper = Räucherhering

    Lake = pickle / lake = See

    (Rücken)Mark = marrow / mark = z.B. Marke

    nett = nice / nett = netto

    Police = policy / police = Polizei

    Pope = priest / pope = Papst

    Promotion = doctorate / promotion = Werbung; Beförderung

    Quark = curd (cheese) / quark = Atomteilchen








    #114VerfasserClaudia09 Aug. 02, 12:46
    Kommentar
    @native speaker (a few posts above): jammer is kosher. No cognate.
    #115VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;09 Aug. 02, 13:16
    Kommentar
    Former = moulder / former = früher

    Flame = Flemish; Fleming / flame = Flamme
    #116VerfasserClaudia10 Aug. 02, 11:44
    Kommentar
    fleck
    #117Verfasser15 Aug. 02, 13:07
    Kommentar
    There seems to be a size limit on comments now, which is why I couldn't post before. Unfortunately my comments are too long to post now due to this size limit. I'll try to add what I can in bits and pieces. (1 of ?)
    #118VerfasserPeter &lt;us&gt; 18 Aug. 02, 06:42
    Kommentar
    Interesting comments, Hans, and thanks for bringing them up.

    You're right, a certain percentage of the words offered here are indeed cognates, and so are not really false enemies. One reason I didn't want to get involved in that discussion before this point is that for some words it's debatable which category they fall into, and for others my German is simply not good enough and I don't have a German etymological dictionary handy. Plus, we could end up with endless side discussions or quibbles about this or that word, which would divert energy from the central point which is to concentrate on finding more new ones. Which is not to discourage anyone from pointing out that certain words don't belong according to the definition, as some have appropriately done, I'm just less competent to do so. (2/?)
    #119Verfasser18 Aug. 02, 06:42
    Kommentar
    Nevertheless, since as you point out there is an increasing number of questionable entries I would just like to make a few points about what belongs and what doesn't. You're right to go back to the original definition, and your paraphrase of it is a good one. The original definition is not arbitrary--as I alluded originally there is a serious purpose also to be served, though I admit that for me that is secondary to the fun I am having here reading all the responses and getting involved. (3/?)
    #120Verfasserp18 Aug. 02, 06:44
    Kommentar
    Be that as it may, some additional comments to clarify the definition, beyond what has already been said, may be in order. To respond to those asking questions about capitalization and umlauts: you can ignore capitalization, "false enemies" are not case-sensitive. Umlauts: you can use German words with umlauts, and they match an English word without one, so: German "Zzxüx" matches English "zzxux". You can also respell the umlaut using the -e- convention (is there a German word for this?) so: German "Zzxuex" but note: this now matches English "zzxuex" and NOT "zzxux" anymore. (4/?)
    #121Verfasserp18 Aug. 02, 06:44
    Kommentar
    So if I had to restate the rules very precisely, it would go like this:

    1. the German word and English word must have exactly the same length--the same number of characters. Characters are usually just letters: A-Z, but if a word requires a hyphen, then that occupies a character position all by itself (it is not an "accented character") and so there must be a hyphen in both G and E.

    2. in each character position, the characters in the two words must be identical, letter for letter, with the exception that any umlauts or other diacritics over either word may be ignored. So 'ü' matches 'u'; likewise accents over English letters (found only in loan-words from French or other languages) can be ignored in exactly the same manner. (5/?)
    #122Verfasserp18 Aug. 02, 06:45
    Kommentar
    3. The words must not be cognates--their origin must be different. They "accidentally" have the same spelling. Example: it's clear that G. "Lied" (song) has nothing to do with E. "lied" (past tense of lie = tell an untruth). These are true false enemies. A surprising (to me) example is "Gift" which I always thought to be accidental cognates, but it turns out they have a common origin so they must be considered "false friends" and not false enemies, and so do not belong here.
    (6/?)
    #123Verfasserp18 Aug. 02, 06:46
    Kommentar
    4. This isn't really a rule, but a clarification about respelling of German words with certain letters: since a convention of German orthography allows umlauts to be respelled using an -e- following the "de-umlauted" letter ("fuer", "Muenchen"--does this respelling convention have a name in German?) you can opt to spell your word either way--or both ways--in the search for false enemies. If "fuer" were a word in English, then we would have *two* pairs of False Enemies: one for "fur" and the other for "fuer". And I'm not sure exactly what the rules are in German about respelling words with ß as ss, but wherever this is allowed in German you can do it here.
    (7/?)
    #124Verfasserp18 Aug. 02, 06:46
    Kommentar
    I don't want to get into the rules for false friends here, they could well be different. Because of the umlaut and respelling rules for example, German prägnant could not be a false enemy, because neither 'pragnant' nor 'praegnant' is an English word. (If the English word were spelled this way, it would still not be a false enemy because it would fail the common origin test.) Whether this word is acceptable as a false friend is another question (in my opinion, yes it is).

    As several have pointed out, there is a separate forum for the "False friends"--and False Friends are much more important to the language learner, where "false enemies" are merely a curiosity (to the learner).
    (8/?)
    #125Verfasserp18 Aug. 02, 06:47
    Kommentar
    About place names: why are they allowed? Why not? They are words, people understand them, and use them to communicate. They simply must adhere to the rules of the definition, like any other word. "Worms" is a good example.

    What about words with two separate meanings, where one of them is a cognate but the other isn't? These words are acceptable. I don't know if "Arm" is a good example because I'm not sure of the German etymology, but if "arm" (poor) is not etymologically related to "Arm" (body part) then it is a valid False Enemy because we can choose G. "Arm" (poor) not= E. "arm" (body part).
    (9/?)
    #126Verfasserp18 Aug. 02, 06:47
    Kommentar
    So, I hope this has helped to refocus on what exactly is a "False Enemy". (Yes, maybe "real enemy" would've been a better name, but then we would've lost the amusing alliteration as well as stealing some of the limelight and recognition value from "false friends"!)

    Here's a short version of the definition to test your word:

    Identical spelling letter for letter, ignoring umlauts, accents and capital letters on both sides; no common derivation.

    Thanks for all the great comments, and hope this helps!
    (10/11)
    #127Verfasserp18 Aug. 02, 06:47
    Kommentar
    Whew, what an ordeal! I'll keep my comments short next time, but I don't know if I'll be able to post the entire sorted list anymore, at least not all in one message.

    Claudia thanks for all the great posts, but watch the definition: surely "old-timer" has the same derivation, it's a loan-word from the English, right? so therefore has the same origin.

    An understandable confusion, in the absence of the precise definition; hopefully it'll be easier now for everyone to distinguish between what is and isn't a Falsche Feinde.
    (11/11!)
    #128VerfasserPeter &lt;us&gt;18 Aug. 02, 06:53
    Kommentar
    An Amelie (Beitrag vom 25. Juli)
    Deutsch -bold ist verwandt mit dem englischen bold. Beide gehen zurück auf ein germanisches Adjektiv "bold", welches "kühn" bedeutet. Das englische Wort hat diese Bedeutung bewahrt. Das deutsche -bold ist "verkommen" zu einem Suffix in Rauf-, Trunk-, oder Witzbold. (Kobold klingt so, als gehörte es auch zur selben Familie, aber hat eine andere Etymologie.
    Dieselbe Nachsilbe findet sich (in leicht veränderter Form) in Vornamen wie Theo-bald oder Leo-pold.

    So, "streng genommen", zählt "bold" damit nicht zu den Falschen Feinden - siehe die Diskussion über "cognates" (Wörter, die auf eine gemeinsame Wurzel zurückgehen).
    #129VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;22 Aug. 02, 05:37
    Kommentar
    ... and here, by popular demand, is the complete list sorted by alphabet, including EVERY WORD, weird or straight, obscure or obvious, and, yes, even the cognates. The total number (so far) is 380 !!

    to be continued
    #130VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;22 Aug. 02, 06:15
    Kommentar
    Part 1: A - G
    Ab, Abo, ad, after, all, alm, also, alter, am, an, angel, anger, apart, arm, arms, art, artist, as, as, Ass, back, bad, bade, bake, bald, band, bang, barren, base, bat, be, beet, befall, behalf, Bezirk, Bier, bin, bitten, blank, blasé, blender, block, bob, bog, bomber, boot, born, born, brand, brat, bratling, brave, braver, brief, bug, bunt, butt, cafeteria, chef, colt, dank, den, dick, die, dies, ding, doll, dose, drum, duck, eleven, elf, else, Em, email, er, erst, es, fad, fade, fall, falter, fang, fast, fasten, fee, fell, fern, fester, fetter, fink, first, fix, flame, flatter, fleck, flog, fond, form, former, fort, frag, fries, fug, fund, funk, furze, Fusion, fuss, gab, gaby, gaffer, gage, gang, gar, Gaul, geld, genial, genie, gib, gift, gilt, glibber, glut, grab, gram, griff, grind, grips, gross, grub, guck, gut, gut, gymnasium
    #131VerfasserHans22 Aug. 02, 06:18
    Kommentar
    Part 2: H - Q
    hag, half, hall, Hamburger, handy, hang, happen, hart, haste, hasten, hat, heck, heft, held, hell, heller, helm, her, herb, herd, herd, hob, hold, hole, horst, hose, hub, hummer, hut, Inn, ire, island, jag, jammer, just, kerb, kind, kipper, kitten, lab, labor, lack, lad, lade, laden, lag, lager, lake, lass, last, latte, leer, leg, lest, lied, liege, limo, link, links, list, lob, lobe, loch, locker, log, lore, lose, lot, lump, lunge, lurch, mach, Made, mag, main, male, man, mantel, mark, mark, mass, maul, met, minder, mine, mist, mitten, mode, mole, moll, moos, moose, moped, mops, most, mull, Murks, muss, muster, mutter, natter, nett, nix, not, Note, null, nun, nut, old-timer, pack, page, pate, pest, pike, plane, Platte, plump, Po, police, pope, posse, post, pro, Probe, promotion, provision, puff, pulli, pummel, pump, pup, pups, quake
    #132VerfasserHans22 Aug. 02, 06:18
    Kommentar
    Part 3: R - Z (including a few Q's that should have been in the previous post)
    Qualm, quark, quell, queue, quote, racker, rad, rain, rand, rang, range, raps, rat, regal, reif, rein, rest, riff, rind, ring, rock, roman, rose, rot, rote, routine, ruck, sack, sag, sage, salve, same, schmuck, see, sense, siege, singe, smoking, smoking, sold, sole, span, spanner, spare, spat, speck, spiel, spinner, spleen, spree, spring, spur, spurt, stab, stand, star, stark, stern, stile, stock, store, strafe, strand, stuck, such, sud, summer, sure, Tag, talk, tang, tank, taste, tat, tee, teil, Teller, these, tick, tier, toll, Ton, tor, tot, tote, traps, tripper, trunk, tun, turn, turner, wade, wage, walker, wall, wand, war, ward, wart, was, web, welch, welt, wen, werf, wetten, wetter, wider, will, wink, Worms, wort
    #133VerfasserHans22 Aug. 02, 06:19
    Kommentar
    OK, really there are only 374 entries in the list, I did not remove the duplicates !!
    #134VerfasserHans22 Aug. 02, 06:30
    Kommentar
    Hi,
    maybe it is a bit late to write it down now, but I canŽt resiste.
    Here I have some: common, van, in, ware, pass, tear, grass, mind, nase, loud, Lord, wind, iron, plaster, horny, fit, figure, ess ... ;)
    #135Verfasser22 Aug. 02, 09:17
    Kommentar
    ... and canŽt resesit again :)
    lust, listen, paste, bilge, safe, sake, kater, rate, bank ... :)
    #136VerfasserS.22 Aug. 02, 09:39
    Kommentar
    ... and again:
    trip, ball, sex, pole ...
    ;)
    #137VerfasserS.22 Aug. 02, 09:51
    Kommentar
    Wind /wind
    #138VerfasserV.22 Aug. 02, 11:13
    Kommentar
    "bilge" und "iron" sind auch deutsche wörter???
    kenne ich nicht...

    And what english word is "kater"???
    #139Verfasser22 Aug. 02, 13:02
    Kommentar
    Bilge ist auch deutsch, steht sogar im Leo.
    Ich muss leider "iron" (was mit Ironie zu tun hätte) und "kater" canceln, da ich die Notizen nicht mehr habe und im Internet finde ich es auch nicht mehr. Die Worte habe ich auch nicht früher gekannt, erst heute irgendwo in Net gefunden. Sorry, ich nehme es zurück.
    #140VerfasserS.22 Aug. 02, 13:48
    Kommentar
    But "nun!!" is German as well as English.
    Ich hoffe, habe es wieder gutgemacht.
    ;)
    #141VerfasserS.22 Aug. 02, 13:57
    Kommentar
    common, tear, grass, mind, loud, plaster, horny, figure

    German words? I don't think so...
    OK, I'll admit to 'grass' as the name of a writer
    #142Verfasser22 Aug. 02, 14:04
    Kommentar
    "van" a German word?

    If you thought of Ludwig van Beethoven: his grandfather came from the Netherlands, where the origin of the name lies. Thus, "van" is Dutch, not German.
    #143VerfasserReinhard II.22 Aug. 02, 16:21
    Kommentar
    proper names (grass) don't count. Neither do cognates (wind,trip,ball,sex,pole,bank,etc).Where do you get common,tear,mind,loud,plaster,horny,figure?

    nun looks good,but is already included.
    #144Verfasserns22 Aug. 02, 19:32
    Kommentar
    Voll GRASS, ej...
    #145VerfasserErkan22 Aug. 02, 19:41
    Kommentar
    tier = die Etage, Reihe, Lag, Rang, Sitz ... – im dt. das Tier
    grass = siehe Beitrag von Erkan – fand ich OK.
    horn = engl. Huppe, oder als Verb „to horn“
    figure = im engl. „to figure“ ein Verb, im dt. die Figure

    Why not wind, trip, ball, sex, pole, bank?
    wind and trip – are verbs in engl. but not in dt. so they have different meaning I think
    ball = im dt. der Tanz-Ball
    sex = im engl.„Geschlecht“ – im dt. heißt es „der Sex“
    pole = im engl. Pfahl, Stab, Stange und der (nord)Pol! – im dt. ist es der Pole/die Polin
    bank = dt. z.B. die Bank zum sitzen z.B. im Park (engl. = bench)

    Vielleicht habe ich dies missverstanden aus dem PeterŽs context:” Words that have the same origin (not necessarily spelled identically) …”
    plaster = heißt im engl. Steinbord oder Randstein, Parkplatz oder da wo Fußgänger laufen und ist (fast) identisch mit dem dt. Wort „Pflaster“
    loud = im deutschen laut
    Dann möchte ich mich dafür entschuldigen. Ebenso ein „Sorry“ for typing mistakes!
    ;)
    #146VerfasserS.23 Aug. 02, 08:32
    Kommentar
    "Words that have the same origin..." waren die Wörter, die nicht in die Liste gehören. NICHT! Was so ein kleines Wörtchen alles ausmachen kann. Mir ist außerdem noch nie ein deutsches Wort namens "Figure" begegnet.
    #147Verfasserweirdo23 Aug. 02, 09:10
    Kommentar
    was unser freund erkan meint, müsste eigentlich KRASS geschrieben werden
    #148Verfasser23 Aug. 02, 09:28
    Kommentar
    Nicht, wenn Freund Erkan aus bestimmten Regionen in unserem schoenen Lande kommt...
    #149VerfasserStefan23 Aug. 02, 11:34
    Kommentar
    egal, ob es GRASS ausgesprochen wird - das Wort heißt KRASS
    #150Verfasser23 Aug. 02, 12:02
    Kommentar
    I have wasted another half hour to come up with another 4 "Falsche Feinde":

    blast (German: 2nd person plural of blasen)
    dang (past tenst of dingen - I admit this one is rather obscure)
    lost (German: 3rd person singular of losen)
    tut (English tut-tut: the clicking sound of disapproval for which there is no letter in our alphabet)

    I must admit that my main motivation is to see how long we can keep this thread going.
    #151VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;27 Aug. 02, 05:56
    Kommentar
    @Hans Wolff: Eine Frage, die nichts mit dem gestellten Thema zu tun hat: Ich wundere mich nämlich des öfteren über die Präsenz von euch Amerikanern (speziell von Peter und dir) zu einer Zeit, in der ihr eigentlich in tiefstem Schlummer liegen solltet. Dein letzter Beitrag, um 6:56 registriert, bedeutet doch, dass es z.B. in New York City um diese Zeit 0:56 Eastern Standard Time war. Wann schlaft ihr eigentlich? Unabhängig davon finde ich es gut, dass es euch gibt...
    #152VerfasserHeinz27 Aug. 02, 06:25
    Kommentar
    die usa haben ja noch ein paar andere zeitzonen.
    6:56 hier wären 21:56 pacific - durchaus keine ungewöhnliche zeit...
    #153Verfasser27 Aug. 02, 10:34
    Kommentar
    Heinz, auf deine Frage "Wann schlaft ihr eignetlich?" - hast du schon einmal gehoert, dass New York den Beinamen hat "the city that doesn't sleep"? Wenn ich also in New York wohnte, waere meine Antwort auf deine Frage "we don't". :-)
    Ich wohne aber im Bundesstaat Indiana, und bin schlicht und einfach ein Nachtmensch - nachts kann ich am besten arbeiten. (Wenn man das Suchen nach "Falschen Feinden" Arbeit nennen will).
    Aber keine Angst, um 1:00 morgens war ich im Bett!!
    #154VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt; 27 Aug. 02, 13:04
    Kommentar
    yup, im still alive *s* and i bring along another enemy, where the hell do they all come from?!

    this time the enemy is called: "courage"

    any objections?
    (could somebody explain to me what a "spunk" really is, thx, bye, david :)
    #155Verfasserd.27 Aug. 02, 13:25
    Kommentar
    Hans, I should have remembered, since I used to live in the greater N.Y. metropolitan area for many years. Nun wohne ich übrigens ganz in der Nähe deiner alten Heimatstadt.
    #156VerfasserHeinz27 Aug. 02, 14:00
    Kommentar
    @Peter
    I didn't know that "old-timer" is a loan word, as you say.
    As far as I know it's a false friend like "dressman", "showmaster", "Chips", "Bowle", "Slip", Smoking" etc., so-called "pseudo-anglicisms" in German....
    #157VerfasserClaudia28 Aug. 02, 23:17
    Kommentar
    something funny concerning Žkrass&cool'...

    "1. Unterrichtsstunde im neuen Schuljahr.
    Der Lehrer sagt: És gibt 2 Wörter, die ich im Unterricht nicht hören will. Das eine ist krass und das andere ist cool..."
    Schweigen.
    Dann fragt ein Schüler: "Und - welche Wörter meinen Sie denn?"

    ...and @ Hans Wolff <us> and ALL OTHERS
    i wonder who makes the last constructive comment?! *smile*...go on : )
    #158Verfasserdavid01 Sep. 02, 10:40
    Kommentar
    great list - it was fun to read it!

    D: Beamer E: video projector
    E: beamer D: BMW

    I was asking an american customer for a "beamer" to give a presentation, but they said: You get them cheaper in Germany...
    LEO lists beamer as an english word, but (at least in the US) it's not used . Try to buy a beamer at ebay.com. No projectors among 164 offers.
    #159VerfasserStephan01 Sep. 02, 12:06
    Kommentar
    allen - Allen (key, screw, wrench)
    Not sure if this counts, as Allen looks like a name to me.
    Gruss
    #160VerfasserRainer11 Sep. 02, 08:23
    Kommentar
    I can't stand looking at this 160-mega-thread without having added anything. So I sat and wrenched my brain, but there was nothing CTRL-F couldn't find already o your lists. When I reached 'p', I was surprised to find 'prima' as an English expression. It has the same meaning as it has in German so doesn't really fit here, but I just wondered how you would spell it: "pree-mah" (as in German) or "prime-ai" or "prime-a"?
    #161VerfasserK.S.12 Sep. 02, 11:17
    Kommentar
    Found one! What about sprit?
    #162VerfasserK.S.12 Sep. 02, 13:51
    Kommentar
    Is the term "double-beamer" still around? I remember there was this fashion around 10 years ago. It means; "An IBM employee that drives a BMW" (In other words, a "double-B-M-er"), but was used as a sort of synonym for "yuppie", only applicable to yuppies in the computer industry. (Implication = "Young, rich computer nerd)
    #163VerfasserAW12 Sep. 02, 17:43
    Kommentar
    durst (archaic past tense of dare)
    #164VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;13 Sep. 02, 06:48
    Kommentar
    Und noch eins: pylon (deutscher Pylon = Verkehrshütchen)
    #165VerfasserK.S.13 Sep. 02, 13:14
    Kommentar
    K.S.: I'm not aware of Prima in English. I checked two desk dictionaries which have it only as part of the expression "prima ballerina" which is used. Md my Webster's New Int'l unabridged 2nd also has it as a printing and proofreading term. Thanks for Pylon, and welcome to the party!
    AW-I didn't understand your post, are you proposing "double-beamer" as a False Enemy? In this case it would have to be used in German, spelled exactly like that, and have no common origin with the English. This seems pretty unlikely.

    A reminder for anyone not familiar with earlier posts, here's a quick definition of "False Enemies":

    A word spelled identically in German and English letter for letter, ignoring umlauts, accents and capital letters on both sides and having no common origin; examples: "bald, fast, hell".

    Please refer to the long version of the definition at Aug 18 07:45:16.
    #166VerfasserPeter &lt;us&gt;13 Sep. 02, 17:51
    Kommentar
    here's an easy one (or do we have that already?):

    summer (=Sommer/buzzer)
    #167Verfasser23 Sep. 02, 15:57
    Kommentar
    >here's an easy one (or do we have that already?):
    >summer (=Sommer/buzzer)

    Try searching this page with the search function of your browser. "Summer" has been mentioned six times now :(
    #168VerfasserRalf24 Sep. 02, 12:23
    Kommentar
    Ich haette noch "floss" im Angebot.
    floss (Faser/float)
    #169VerfasserMarko24 Sep. 02, 15:07
    Kommentar
    firm gas lose roll war
    #170Verfasserorb &lt;de&gt;24 Sep. 02, 15:22
    Kommentar
    I am in awe at how long we have kept this thread going. For a while, I thought we were getting to the bottom of the barrell, and that only the very obscure "Falsche Feinde" are left (see my post "durst" from Sep. 13 which would fall into the "obscure" category).

    But "floss" and "firm" in the previous 2 posts demonstrate that there are still a lot of lucky finds to be made.

    By the way, "war" and "lose" were included in previous posts.
    #171VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;24 Sep. 02, 16:52
    Kommentar
    Let's push it.
    In vielen englischen Büchern findet man in wörtlichen Reden "er", was wohl soviel heißen soll wie "äh".
    er - äh
    he - er

    Und dann noch "bell". Einmal als bell=Glocke und dann noch in Aufforderung wie "Bell doch, du dummer Hund"
    the bell - die Glocke
    bark! - bell!
    #172Verfasserrlf &lt;de&gt;25 Sep. 02, 08:39
    Kommentar
    loss/löss(Gesteinsart)
    #173Verfasser25 Sep. 02, 09:17
    Kommentar
    Loß und Floß werden mit ß geschrieben, nicht mit ss...
    #174Verfasser25 Sep. 02, 10:15
    Kommentar
    Laut Definition sind aber Ersatz-Schreibweisen für Umlaute und ß erlaubt. Notfalls ist es eben ein schweizer "falscher Feind", da wird das abgeschaffte ß immer ss geschrieben.
    #175Verfasser25 Sep. 02, 10:52
    Kommentar
    (to) harken: to rake / lit: hören, horchen
    #176Verfasserrera (de)26 Sep. 02, 11:40
    Kommentar
    Rotten (verfaulen/routs)
    #177VerfasserMarko27 Sep. 02, 22:07
    Kommentar
    gilt (E: Vergoldung, D: es gilt)
    met (E: past participle of meet, D: Honigwein)
    Seen (E: past participle of see, D: Plural von See)
    Stolen (E: past participle of steal, D: Plural von Stola)
    #178VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;28 Sep. 02, 15:07
    Kommentar
    poller (E: Interviewer; D: dieses Ding an das Schiffe angebunden werden)
    #179VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;30 Sep. 02, 05:19
    Kommentar
    roller (E: Walze, Rolle, D: scooter)
    #180VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;30 Sep. 02, 05:22
    Kommentar
    Wie waers mit:
    cat - Katze
    Cat - Catamaran (ich weiss ist eine Abkuerzung, aber jeder Segler sagt er segelt einen Cat - wenn ers denn tut)

    Wo ist eigentlich Peter, der das ganze ins Rollen gebracht hat. Ich dachte du bleibst, Wochen Monate Jahre dran? Uebrigens eine sehr lustige Liste. Super Idee!!
    #181VerfasserSilke30 Sep. 02, 08:01
    Kommentar
    Sollte in 180 Beitraegen tatsaechlich das offensichtliche Wort "für" noch nicht erwähnt worden sein?

    für - for
    fur - Fell
    #182VerfasserMarko02 Okt. 02, 12:28
    Kommentar
    I am really impressed by this thread. Not only because of the great number of entries but because I find that I have less problems learning the english vocabulary by reading the "false friends" and the comments on them.

    Who did the effort to collect the list and to complete it by adding the english and/or the german meaning? This list would be a good aid for beginners and also experts. I would appreciate to get it.

    Thanks
    #183VerfasserHorst Schmitt02 Okt. 02, 16:06
    Kommentar
    I am really impressed by this thread. Not only because of the great number of entries but because I find that I have less problems learning the english vocabulary by reading the "false enemies" and the comments on them.

    Who did the effort to collect the list and to complete it by adding the english and/or the german meaning? This list would be a good aid for beginners and also experts. I would appreciate to get it.

    Thanks
    #184VerfasserHorst Schmitt02 Okt. 02, 16:07
    Kommentar
    to rappel, amerik.= abseilen
    Rappel, einen Rappel haben = to be completely cracked.
    (überprüft, beides in LEO)
    #185Verfassergfr02 Okt. 02, 22:30
    Kommentar
    einer geht noch:

    roster - Ro(e)ster

    (ich hab hier kein echtes Oe, hier ist aber das o mit den zwei Punkten gemeint!! Dann muesste es doch auch den Regeln ensprechen, oder ? :-))

    roster - Liste
    Ro(e)ster - roaster
    #186Verfassersilke03 Okt. 02, 04:20
    Kommentar
    @Silke--I'm always here, I just don't like to post too often unless I have something specific to share--this isn't "my" thread, it's ours, everybody's, it belongs to everyone who has contributed, and who will contribute.

    @Horst--everyone you see here is collecting the list, and LEO is kind enough to host the collection and thus give life to this mini-community, isn't it great? So far, we don't have a complete description of the English and German meanings, nor even a careful editing of the list to see which ones really are False Enemies. But for my part, I didn't want to get too involved in too many discussions about which words belong, because it might interfere with further collection of new words, unless a poster clearly misunderstood the definition.

    At work there's sometimes a saying of "he who suggests it, does it" so if you want to start compiling a complete list with meanings, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it!

    It's great if you're learning from it, but don't forget the "False Friends" which classically is much more important for language learners, there are whole books on the subject. Here's the LEO thread on False Friends: http://www.leo.org/cgi-bin/dict/forum/forum.c...

    Thanks to all the new posts, I DO read and enjoy them all. Keep 'em coming!
    #187VerfasserPeter &lt;us&gt;03 Okt. 02, 08:05
    Kommentar
    kohl
    #188VerfasserHeiner03 Okt. 02, 17:46
    Kommentar
    Germ - yeast
    germ - Keim
    #189VerfasserUrsula03 Okt. 02, 22:55
    Kommentar
    What about christendom? or sack? or ample/Ampel?
    Perhaps they're already old; I didn't read all these comments, because the list already quite long ;-) Greetings from a "false-friends-suffering" German exchange student in Dallas, Texas!
    #190VerfasserLuke/Lukas04 Okt. 02, 03:09
    Kommentar
    grate (E: what you do with cheese,
    G: plural of Grat = ridge or burr)
    #191VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;07 Okt. 02, 23:04
    Kommentar
    Almost a whole week has gone by, and no new "Falsche Feinde" have been posted. Are we reaching the point where we have captured all of them?
    I don't think so - but the specimens that are left in the wild are certainly becoming more elusive. So, LEO regulars and newcomers, may I challenge you to PUT ON YOUR THINKING CAPS ... I know there are more Falsche Feinde out there - let's catch them all!!

    The following is the beginning of a 19th century poem which contains TWO Falsche Feinde (both of which are new to this thread). Can you spot them?

    "Im tiefen Tale, am klaren Bache,
    da saß ich einsam auf weichem Moose"
    #192VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;14 Okt. 02, 22:04
    Kommentar
    I am not sure, but is "Springer" such a false friend?
    German: someone who jumps, and in particular the knight in chess.
    English: Main Entry: spring·er
    Pronunciation: 'spri[ng]-&r
    Function: noun
    Date: 1611
    1 : a stone or other solid laid at the impost of an arch -- see ARCH illustration
    2 : one that springs
    3 : SPRINGER SPANIEL
    4 : a cow nearly ready to calve
    Seems to be different. A new false enemy?
    #193VerfasserCyprinius15 Okt. 02, 11:04
    Kommentar
    Sorry, the first line must be "false enemy"
    #194Verfassercy15 Okt. 02, 11:05
    Kommentar
    Klar:
    Tale = tale (like in old wives' tale)
    Moose = the animal (thread about whether this is the German Elch or not....
    #195VerfasserAnne Bhx Fra15 Okt. 02, 15:24
    Kommentar
    Anne,
    da haste mitten ins Schwarze getroffen!!
    (and of course, this sentence contains another 2 Falsche Feinde)
    #196VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;15 Okt. 02, 17:26
    Kommentar
    The other 2 should be
    am = form of to be
    sass = informally for rude, but often harmless
    #197VerfasserKL16 Okt. 02, 11:59
    Kommentar
    @Hans... ha! that's

    mitten = fausthandschuh
    haste = die Eile
    #198VerfasserAnne Bhx Fra16 Okt. 02, 12:48
    Kommentar
    wie ist es mit wog (D. wiegen/ E. ...)
    #199Verfasserwebtraveller16 Okt. 02, 13:20
    Kommentar
    Holler: süddt. für Holunder (elder)
    to holler: brüllen (to scream)
    #200VerfasserES16 Okt. 02, 13:49
    Kommentar
    bass (fish) / Bass (music)
    #201VerfasserFrank16 Okt. 02, 13:54
    Kommentar
    Messing (D = brass)
    messing (E = verwirrend)

    LEO hat's in beide Richtungen.
    #202VerfasserReinhard II.16 Okt. 02, 14:04
    Kommentar
    Wale (D=Whales)
    wale (E=Barkholz, Dollbord, Strieme [naut.], says LEO...)
    #203Verfassersyl-de16 Okt. 02, 14:41
    Kommentar
    trier (E = Erprober, Prüfer, Prüfgerät, Sichter - s. LEO)
    Trier (D = a town in Germany, birthplace of Karl Marx)
    #204VerfasserReinhard II.16 Okt. 02, 14:47
    Kommentar
    Bär (D=bear)
    bar (E=Bar, Stange, Riegel...)

    Can't believe that all those animals are still missing...
    #205Verfassersyl-de16 Okt. 02, 14:53
    Kommentar
    Moor (D=swamp, moor; from Old High German 'muor' )
    Moor (E=Mohr; from Latin 'Maurus' inhabitant of Mauretania)
    #206Verfassersyl-de16 Okt. 02, 15:05
    Kommentar
    Wank (D = a mountain near Garmisch-Partenkirchen [we've had rivers and towns, so why not mountains])
    to wank (E = a foul-mouthed, very rude slang expression for "to masturbate" - don't use it!)
    #207VerfasserReinhard II.16 Okt. 02, 15:09
    Kommentar
    neck (D= Imperative of necken/to tease: Neck mich nicht!)
    neck (E= Genick, Nacken)

    Beck (D= south-German for baker)
    beck (E: "at one's beck and call")
    #208Verfassersyl-de16 Okt. 02, 15:28
    Kommentar
    Bäcker (D= baker)
    backer (E= Beistand u.ä.)
    #209Verfassersyl-de16 Okt. 02, 15:40
    Kommentar
    die Muse/to muse
    #210Verfasserheller16 Okt. 02, 15:46
    Kommentar
    hock (D= imperative of 'hocken'= to crouch)
    hock (E= Rheinwein, Gefängnis u.a.m. ask MW)
    #211Verfassersyl's last for today16 Okt. 02, 15:48
    Kommentar
    D: Mute (Dativ von Mut)
    E: to mute
    #212VerfasserFrank16 Okt. 02, 18:03
    Kommentar
    lock (D= imperative of 'locken'=to allure)
    lock (E= verschließen)

    Göre (D= brat)
    gore (E= Blut)

    bück (D= imperative of 'bücken'=to stoop)
    buck (E= Bock, Hase, $)
    #213Verfassersyl-de17 Okt. 02, 15:43
    Kommentar
    Mure (D=mudflow)
    mure (E=einmauern)
    Reuse (D=bow net)
    reuse (E=wiederverwenden)
    Stall(D=barn)
    stall(E=überziehen [aero])
    Lech (D=river in southern Germany)
    lech (E=Lustmolch)
    matte (D=mst)
    Matte (E=Rohstein [Hüttemwesen])
    #214Verfassersyl-de17 Okt. 02, 17:53
    Kommentar
    loser (D: form of adj. 'lose', i.e loser Flansch; E: Verlierer)
    loses (D: form of adj. 'lose', i.e loses Mundwerk; E: form of 'to lose')
    lies (D: imperative of 'lesen'=read; E: Lügen)
    hinge (D: subjunctive of 'hängen'=to hang; E: Scharnier)
    tags (D: during the day E: Schilder)
    #215Verfassersyl-de18 Okt. 02, 15:01
    Kommentar
    matter (D: form of adj 'matt'=dull; E: ...)
    belle(D: imperative of 'bellen'=bark; E: Schöne)
    lug (D: lie - as in 'Lug und Trug'; E: Anschlußstück u.ä. - cf. LEO)
    mast (D: pylon - from lat. 'malus'; E: Mastfutter - from Old High German 'mast'/Old English 'mete')
    tellers (D: genitive of 'Teller'=plate; E: Erzähler, pl.)
    Lüge/luge/(D: lie; E: rodeln)
    #216Verfassersyl-de18 Okt. 02, 15:53
    Kommentar
    Congratulations, we have reached 450 entries by now. Maybe it is time to get into the discussion about questionable entries that do not meet the "Falsche Feinde" definition. For the time being I have updated the "complete and uncensored list" and subdivided it into two sections. [Only some entries of 22 Aug., which were based on a fundamental misunderstanding are not included.] Words, that have been considered as questionable or obscure in previous posts are now compiled in a separate paragraph. But let’s start with the (so far) undisputed and doubtless False Enemies (386 in number!).
    #217Verfasser(#1 of 6)18 Okt. 02, 15:56
    Kommentar
    Undisputed entries (A-G):
    ab, abo, ad, all, alm, also, alter, am, an, angel, anger, apart, arm, arms, art, as, ass, back, backer, bad, bade, bake, bald, band, bang, Bär, barren, base, bass, bat, be, beck, beet, befall, behalf, bell, belle, bezirk, bier, bilge, bin, bitten, blasé, blast, blender, block, bob, bog, boot, born, brat, bratling, bück, bug, bunt, butt, christendom, dang, dank, den, dick, die, dies, ding, doll, dose, drum, duck, durst, eleven, elf, else, em, email, er, erst, es, fad, falter, fast, fasten, fee, fell, fern, fester, fetter, fink, firm, first, flame, flatter, fleck, flog, floss, fond, form, former, fort, frag, fries, fug, fund, funk, für, furze, fuss, gab, gaby, gaffer, gage, gar, gas, Gaul, geld, genie, germ, gib, gilt, gilt, glut, Göre, grab, gram, grate, griff, grind, grips, gross, grub, guck, gut, gut.
    #218Verfasser(#2/6)18 Okt. 02, 15:56
    Kommentar
    Undisputed entries (H-O):
    hag, half, hall, happen, harken, hart, haste, hasten, hat, heck, heft, held, hell, heller, helm, her, herb, herd, hinge, hob, hock, hold, hole, holler, horst, hub, hummer, hut, inn, ire, island, jag, jammer, kerb, kind, kipper, kitten, kohl, lab, lack, lad, lade, laden, lag, lake, lass, last, latte, lech, leer, leg, lest, lied, liege, lies, limo, link, links, list, listen, lob, lobe, loch, lock, locker, log, lore, lose, loser, loses, Löss, lost, lot, lug, lüge, lump, lunge, lurch, mach, made, mag, main, male, man, mantel, mark, mass, mast, matte, matter, maul, messing, met, minder, mine, mist, mitten, mole, moll, Moor, moos, moose, moped, mops, most, mull, mure, murks, muse, muss, muster, mute, mutter, natter, neck, nett, nix, not, note, nun, nut.
    #219Verfasser(#3/6)18 Okt. 02, 15:56
    Kommentar
    Undisputed entries (P-Z):
    pack, page, pate, pike, plane, plump, Po, pole, police, poller, posse, pro, puff, pulli, pummel, pump, pup, pups, quake, qualm, quark, quell, quote, racker, rad, rain, rand, rang, range, rappel, raps, rat, rate, regal, reif, rein, rest, reuse, riff, rind, ring, rock, roll, rose, Röster, rot, rote, rotten, ruck, sack, sag, sage, sake, salve, same, sass, schmuck, see, seen, sense, siege, singe, smoking, smoking, sold, sole, span, spanner, spare, spat, speck, spiel, spree, spur, spurt, stab, stall, star, stern, stile, stock, stolen, store, strand, stuck, such, sud, summer, sure, tag, tags, talk, tang, tank, taste, tat, tee, teil, teller, tellers, these, tick, tier, toll, ton, tor, tot, tote, traps, trier, trunk, tun, tut, wade, wage, wale, walker, wand, wank, war, ward, wart, was, welch, welt, wen, werf, wetten, wetter, wider, wog, worms, wort.
    #220Verfasser(#4/6)18 Okt. 02, 15:56
    Kommentar
    Questionable entries (64 in number):
    after, Allen, artist, beamer, blank, bomber, brand, brave, braver, brief, cafeteria, chef, chef, colt, courage, fade, fall, fang, fix, fusion, gang, genial, genie, gift, glibber, gymnasium, hamburger, handy, hang, haste, hose, just, lager, labor, mode, null, old-timer, pest, Platte, pope, post, probe, promotion, provision, pylon, queue, quote, roller, roman, routine, spinner, spleen, spring, springer, stand, stark, strafe, tripper, turn, turner, wall, web, will, wink.
    #221Verfasser(#5/6)18 Okt. 02, 15:56
    Kommentar
    This is of course no final verdict. In fact, everybody is invited to argue and prove that a certain word belongs in one or the other category i.e. whether a word is a real False Enemy or not (cf. Peter's definition of 18 Aug). All the same the FE-community and all newcomers are still called upon to hunt the remaining Enemies. As Hans said earlier, "Let's catch them all!"
    #222VerfasserSyl-de (#6/6)18 Okt. 02, 15:57
    Kommentar
    Syl-de,
    a big thank you from me and the rest of the FE-community for compiling the latest list of False Enemies. I was thinking last week that it's about time that we had a complete list again. I was even considering doing it myself, wasting an hour or two on False Enemies, instead of painting the porch, and cleaning up the basement.

    But you have already done the job!! I especially like the way you divided the list into undisputed and questionable entries.
    Thanks again.
    #223VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;21 Okt. 02, 01:01
    Kommentar
    Many thanks at syl. I am sorry to say it's only 448 entries as "smoking" and "gut" are included twice ;-)Btw, I'd like to dispute the status of "smoking". The German and the Englisch word clearly have the same (English) origin and are therefore no False Enemies.
    #224VerfasserPA21 Okt. 02, 09:23
    Kommentar
    I'm so sorry, but I have to reduce the total amount once more: "chef" is contained twice in the list of questionable entries.

    In order to make good, I have a new one:
    D: Fürther (an inhabitant of Fürth, a city close to Nuremberg)
    E: further
    (Umlauts may be ignored - see Peter's original posting, which started this thread.)
    #225VerfasserReinhard II.21 Okt. 02, 15:53
    Kommentar
    It was a very rainy sunday afternoon, when I noticed how many of those Falsche Feinde are still around. It was much fun to catch some more of them...

    angle (D: imperative of ‚angeln‘=to fish; E: Winkel)
    bark (D: barque; E: bellen)
    berate (D: imperative of ‚beraten=to counsel; E: beschimpfen)
    bücket/bucket (D: form [arch.] of ‚bücken‘=to bow ; E: Eimer)
    dankest (D: form [arch.] of ‚danken"=to thank ; E: am feuchtesten)
    diene (E: imperative of "dienen"=to serve; E: Dien=chem. Sybstanzgruppe)
    fastest (D: form of ‚fasten‘=to fast ; E: am schnellsten)
    flick (D: imperative of ‘flicken’=to patch; E: schnalzen)
    flicker (D: patcher; E: flackern)
    grant (D: south German for grumpiness; E: gewähren)
    haute (D: past tense of "hauen"=to beat; E: hochklassig)
    heller (D: brighter ; E: cf. M-W)
    herein (D: hierin ; E: come in!)
    hocker (D: stool; E: cf. M-W)
    hotter (D: Austrian for parish boundary; E: heißer)
    latten (D: laths; E: Messinglegierung)
    lief (form of ‘laufen’=to run ; E: [arch.] geliebt, froh)
    löge/loge (D: subjunctive II of ‚lügen‘=to lie; E: Loge)
    #226Verfassersyl-de21 Okt. 02, 16:32
    Kommentar
    some more:
    mâche (D: imperative of ‚machen"=to do ; E: cf. M-W)
    malt (D: imperative of ‘malen’=to paint; E: Malz)
    Männer/manner (D: men; E: Art)
    Mär/mar (D: fairy tale; E: schädigen)
    marge (D: margin; E: Margarine)
    mate (D: south american holly; E: Kumpel u.a.)
    mint (D: teal; E: prägen)
    Miß/miss (D: miss; E: vermissen)
    modern (D: to moulder; E: modern)
    müd/mud (D: tired; E: Schlamm)
    muff (D: frowst; E: Flansch)
    netter (D: nattier; E: Netzmacher)
    racker (D: rascal; E: cf. M-W)
    ret (D: reed; E: rösten)
    rick (D: central German for rack; E: verdrehen)
    rums (D: bang!; E: Mz. Rum)
    säger/sager (D: merganser [zool.]; E: klüger)
    sagest (D: you say [arch.]; E: am klügsten)
    sarge (D: coffin; E: Sergeant)
    seine (D: his; E: Schleppnetz)
    seines (D: his; E: Schleppnetze)
    sole (D: brine; E: alleinig/Sohle)
    span (D: sliver; E: Spanne)
    spelt (D: a wheat; E: Partizip von ‚to spell‘)
    Spötter/spotter (D: mocker; E: Aufklärer)
    stare (D: starlings; E: starren)
    süß/suss (D: sweet ; E: spitzkriegen)
    #227Verfassersyl-de21 Okt. 02, 16:33
    Kommentar
    and the last bunch:
    tang (D: seaweed; E: Zinken/Geruch)
    tarn (D: imperative of ‚tarnen‘=to camouflage; E: Bergsee)
    taut (D: form of ‘tauen’=to thaw; E: gespannt)
    tod (D: death; E: "on one’s tod" [BE sl.]=allein)
    tore (D: gates; E: form of ‘to tear’=zerreißen)
    Törn/torn (D: boat trip; E: zerrissen)
    totes (D: form of adj. ‘tot’=dead; E: form of ‘to tote’=schleppen)
    trans (D: genitive of ‚Tran‘=whale oil; E: transständig [chem.])
    Tülle/tulle (D: grommet; E: Tüll)
    unreel (D: unfair; E: abwickeln)
    wag (D: imperative of ‚wagen‘=to dare; E: wedeln)
    wallet (D: form of ‚wallen‘=to make a pilgrimage/to flow [arch.]; E: Brieftasche)
    want (D: shroud; E: wollen)
    watt (D: tideland; E: physik. Einheit)

    and some additional relatives of already known Enemies:
    bezirks, fells, finks, limos, lurches, puffs, qualms, rappels, rinds, rings, rocks

    sorry that one balance has to be re-drawn ;-)
    #228Verfassersyl-de21 Okt. 02, 16:33
    Kommentar
    syl-de,
    you are incredible. How did you find all these? It must have been a very long and very rainy Sunday ...

    Peter, it seems that you have created a new medical condition - the False Enemy Syndrome. It's highly contagious, and addictive, too. Once you are hooked, you spend endless hours catching False Enemies, when you should be painting the porch, eating, or sleeping.
    Maybe we need to start a therapy group ...
    #229VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;21 Okt. 02, 19:01
    Kommentar
    Count me in!
    #230VerfasserPeter &lt;us&gt;22 Okt. 02, 05:55
    Kommentar
    whow! einen hab ich noch:
    bap (D: kölsch für Vater, Papa, E: brit. für Brötchen)
    #231VerfasserPA22 Okt. 02, 09:54
    Kommentar
    Wie wäre es denn mit DOING:
    im deutschen das lautmalerische Wort aus der Comicsprache (vgl. E.J. Havlik: Lexikon der Onomatopöien. Die lautimitierenden Wörter im Comic, Frankfurt am Main 1981) und im engl. die bekannte Verlaufsform von to do
    #232Verfassermerluzzo22 Okt. 02, 11:39
    Kommentar
    just found one in one of the other threads:
    placket (D: imperative of placken=to travail, E= Leiste)
    #233VerfasserPA22 Okt. 02, 14:32
    Kommentar
    hast (E: e.g. Shakespeare, Sonnet 42: "That thou hast her, it is not all my grief")
    Hast (D: hurry)
    #234VerfasserReinhard II.22 Okt. 02, 15:46
    Kommentar
    dost (E: e.g. Shakespeare, Sonnet 4: "Unthrifty loveliness, why dost thou spend")
    Dost (D: a medical plant, it. Oregano, scientific name "Origanum vulgare")

    Sorry that I didn't include this one into my last (and similar) posting, but the idea came to me during the night.
    #235VerfasserReinhard II.23 Okt. 02, 07:22
    Kommentar
    @Hans Wolff: Well, I think it's time to paint the porch... :-))
    #236VerfasserHeinz H.23 Okt. 02, 08:37
    Kommentar
    I forgot to ask before :-( ....
    PA mentioned that "smoking" in English and in German looks back at the same origin, which is most likely. But does anybody know the reason for developing a totally different meaning in the German language? Unfortunately I do have no source to look it up, yet would be interested to know how the different meanings developed. Or can somebody tell me where I might be able to look it up? Thanks in advance!
    #237VerfasserHeinz H.23 Okt. 02, 12:06
    Kommentar
    Heinz H, I have finished the first coat of paint on my porch. Thanks for reminding me. Since I have to wait for the paint to dry, I have some time to look up "smoking" (Etymologie-Duden):
    Smoking ist die Kurzform von smoking-suit oder smoking-jacket. Gemeint ist ein Jackett, das man in England nach dem Mittagsmahl zum "Rauchen" anzog, um den Frack zu schonen.
    #238VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;23 Okt. 02, 12:37
    Kommentar
    Vielen Dank, Hans! Even so it originated in English, smoking is - as far as I know - in respect of a garment not used or known anymore in this language. Quite interesting that the Germans picked it up and saved this meaning from extinction. Obviously our flair for Anglicisms has a long history.
    By the way: I hope your paint has dried up; it looks pretty much like rain is just around the corner. :-)
    #239VerfasserHeinz H.23 Okt. 02, 14:11
    Kommentar
    @Heinz H.: As far as I know, "smoking jacket" is still used in the English language. Interestingly, the German "Smoking" or "Smokingjackett" denotes a prim dinner jacket, while the English "smoking jacket" is much more casual, sort of a "Hausjacke".
    #240Verfassersyl-de23 Okt. 02, 14:35
    Kommentar
    Neither do I own a porch nor am I obliged to paint one. Thus, I could luckily hunt down another gang of Enemies. Btw, there is not a scrap of an addictive "False Enemy Syndrome" (FES). I could stop easily catching those f****ing words, if I only wanted to...

    dicker (D: thicker; E: feilschen)
    junker (D: donzel, squire; E: [sl.] Schrottkarre)
    knack (D: snap; E: Kniff)
    knacker. (D: kind of sausage; E: Abdecker)
    knacks (D: crack; E: Tricks)
    knicker (D: niggard; E: Schlüpfer)
    linker (D: left, leftie; E: Verknüpfer)
    pule (D: imperative of ‘pulen’=to pick; E: piepsen)
    puller (D: piddle, cf. Puller-Alarm!; E: Abzieher)
    racker (D: varmints; E: cf- MW)
    sicken (D: to welt; E: erkranken)
    trinket (D: form of ‘trinken’=to drink; E: Schmuckstück)
    tucker (D: chug; E: [austr.] Essen)
    #241Verfassersyl-de23 Okt. 02, 18:52
    Kommentar

    Syl-de,
    don't you know that this "I could stop any time" attitude is one of the typical symptoms of FES addiction? You are deluding yourself. I implore you: Please, please, seek help!! Find the nearest chapter of FES Anonymous. Don't get sucked into the maelstrom any deeper.
    #242VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;24 Okt. 02, 02:15
    Kommentar
    Ich will syl das Feld nicht ganz alleine überlassen, doch habe ich das Gefühl, dass nicht mehr viel übrig ist... Ist "well" ein deutsches Wort? Z.B: die Aufforderung an das Blech oder das Haupthaar: "Well dich!" ;-)
    #243Verfassermerluzzo24 Okt. 02, 13:12
    Kommentar
    Grille (D: cricket, E: Grillrestaurant, cf. "bar & grille")
    #244VerfasserES24 Okt. 02, 13:19
    Kommentar
    Got another one!

    Fes (D: the musical note F-flat)
    FES (E: False-Enemy Syndrom)

    ;-)
    #245VerfasserReinhard II.24 Okt. 02, 13:35
    Kommentar
    Schreibt man bar&grille wirklich mit e am Ende oder nur bar&grill, oder gibts beides?
    Ich will ES nicht den Punkt streitig machen, es kommt mir nur komisch vor...
    #246VerfasserK.S.24 Okt. 02, 14:30
    Kommentar
    @ K.S.: keine Ahnung ob in UK, aber in USA auf jeden Fall sehr geläufige Schreibweise (s. Link)
    http://45701.com/skippers/skip-lo-sm.GIF
    #247VerfasserES24 Okt. 02, 15:25
    Kommentar
    Merriam-Webster kennt zwar nicht das Grillrestaurant aber:
    grille (or grill) /'gril/
    Etymology: French grille, alteration of Old French greille, from Latin craticula, diminutive of cratis wickerwork Date: 1686
    1 : a grating forming a barrier or screen; especially : an ornamental one at the front end of an automobile
    2 : an opening covered with a grille
    Der Punkt geht eindeutig an ES!
    #248Verfassermerluzzo24 Okt. 02, 15:26
    Kommentar
    Bar & Grille bringt mich noch auf einen anderen Falschen Feind:
    bar (D: wie in "Bargeld" cash, E: Stange)
    #249VerfasserES24 Okt. 02, 15:44
    Kommentar
    @Reinhard II: Thanks for the hint! I always thought f-flat in German is simply "e". Therefore I checked a website on musical notes, low and behold what did I find?

    fes (D: the musical note F-flat; E: Fez, die Kopfbeeckung)
    his (D: the musical note B-sharp; E: sein
    und wie ich so über den Noten brüte...
    brüte/brute (D: form of 'brüten'=to brood; E: brutal)
    guts (D: genitive of 'Gut'=manor; E: Mut)
    #250Verfassersyl-de (MFESA)24 Okt. 02, 16:00
    Kommentar
    ES, "bar" was already posted on Oct 16 by our chief False-Enemy catcher, syl-de.
    #251VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;us&gt;24 Okt. 02, 16:02
    Kommentar
    Hans, syl-de hat es aber als Bär/bar gepostet, nicht als bar/bar. Ist doch ein Unterschied, oder?
    #252VerfasserES24 Okt. 02, 16:14
    Kommentar
    @syl-de: f-flat is enharmonically equivalent to e. It is the same key on a piano, but when a very careful violinist plays the two notes, then e is a little bit higher than f-flat.

    Another one:
    as (D: musical note a-flat, E: als)
    #253VerfasserReinhard II.24 Okt. 02, 16:34
    Kommentar
    @Reinhard II: that's what I also learnt from that website. Thanks for explaining. I am sorry to say, but "as" was already included in Peter's very first posting (albeit he meant the German 'as' as the note or the ace).
    #254Verfassersyl-de24 Okt. 02, 16:56
    Kommentar
    flies (E: fly/ Dt: fliesen)
    #255VerfasserGhol- ‹GB›24 Okt. 02, 17:20
    Kommentar
    Sorry guys, there's no scoring for "fes". Believing syl-de, it's a turkish sort of hat (like a small upside-down bucket, dark red, with a piece of black string fixed on top) in English. I'm afraid it's the same in German: "der Fes". Have a look at LEOs Karl-May-Server, especially "von Bagdad nach Stambul" or another one out of that series, go into the text, press alt-f and search for Fes...

    @Ghol: You are right, but may I add that the imperative sing. of "fliesen" is not very common in German ;-)
    #256VerfasserK.S.25 Okt. 02, 09:16
    Kommentar
    @K.S.: Althogh 'Fes' (sometimes: Fés) is the same in English and German (the hat as well as the Moroccan city) there is also a completely different word in German: fes, the musical note (f-flat). According to Peter's Definition of 18 Aug, #9, it does not matter if words have two separate meanings, where one of them is only a cognate.
    Cf. the resp. entries in dictionaries
    http://mr-check.xipolis.net/1849f11f27d285e35...
    http://www.bartleby.com/61/71/F0097100.html
    #257Verfassersyl-de (MFESA)25 Okt. 02, 09:44
    Kommentar
    This would be absolutely boring! There are tons of words that have the same pronounciation and the same meaning in English and in German and then also some other meanings. There is nothing special about that, just look LEO up and down. I always looked for words that have definitely different meanings - and most of those listed above do. But they are those really hard to find...
    #258VerfasserK.S.25 Okt. 02, 11:32
    Kommentar
    @K.S. definitely quite an artificial suggestion (not the only one): Reminds me of the linguists' famous sentence "John runs" -- quite evidently perfect English, but no-one could think of a convincing situation when anyone would *ever* say that... Is that worth a new thread?
    #259VerfasserGhol- ‹GB›25 Okt. 02, 13:17
    Kommentar
    @K.S.: I am quite curious where to find the „tons of words" you mentioned that would meet our False Enemy definition. May I once more refer you to Peter's definition of 18 Aug (esp. No. 9). It is not about „some other meaning", but about words that are spelled identically and have completely different origins in both languages. It is the unrelated origin not the differing meaning that make those words False Enemies. In cases where a word in one language has more than one meaning/origin - according to our rules - it is enough, if _one_ of these meanings/origins corresponds with a unrelated False Enemy in the other language. The second meaning/origin that might be identical in both languages can be ignored. Peter has cited „arm" as an example. Although the word in German and English denotes the same part of the body and has the same etymological root it nevertheless is a False Enemy: the second German meaning „arm" (poor) has a completely different etymology and is therefore a real False Enemy to the English "arm" (body part). Same applies to a number of our entries - and the „fes". The German word for the musical note and the Morrocan hat/city have definitely unrelated meanings and different deriviations.
    @Ghol: What's so artificial about a hat and a note? Google proves that both words are really being used. At least, used more often than the imperative of 'fliesen' ;-)
    #260Verfassersyl-de25 Okt. 02, 15:21
    Kommentar
    @syl-de: I wasn't taking a swipe at your latest words. "Hut ab" to your many contributions. As a child I wanted a fes, and I've played weird things like Fes or Eis before.
    #261VerfasserGhol- ‹GB›25 Okt. 02, 22:58
    Kommentar
    prise (D: eine Prise Salz, E: prize sth. open)
    holder (D: holder Frühling, E: Halter, Griff)
    wedding (D: Stadtteil von Berlin, E: Hochzeit)
    #262VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;28 Okt. 02, 13:08
    Kommentar
    This weekend being astonishingly warm and sunny has kept me from my favourite leisure activity most of the time. In the end, sunday evening’s storm has allowed me to collect at least some new suspects:

    abate (D: Italian or Spanish secular priest; E: vermindern)
    aids (D: immunodeficency disease; E: Hilfen)
    bärge/barge (D: form of „bergen"=to salvage"; E: Lastkahn)
    bäte/bate (D: form of „bitten"=to beg; E: vermindern)
    blade (D: Austrian for fatso ; E: Schneide)
    bürg/burg (D: imperative of „bürgen"=to vouch; E: Stadt, Burg)
    büß/buss (D: imperative of „büßen"=to expiate; E: Kuss)
    düst/dust (D: imperative of „düsen"=to dash; E: Staub)
    gaff (D: imperative of „gaffen"=to gape; E: Fischhaken)
    gaffe (D: imperative of „gaffen"=to gape; E: Fauxpas)
    grade (D: straight; E: Grad)
    Mäster/master (D: one who is fattening animals; E: Meister)
    mess (D: imperative of „messen"=to measure; E: Unordnung)
    möve/move (D: seagull [old Bavarian spelling - does that count?]; E: bewegen)
    paps (D: daddy; E: Breie)
    rage (D: form of „ragen"=to protrude; E: Zorn)
    rüst/rust (D: imperative of „rüsten"=to arm; E: Rost)
    säle/sale (D: halls; E: Verkauf)
    säte/sate (D: past form of „säen"=to seed; E: sättigen)
    Sünder/sunder (D: sinner; E: trennen)
    wäre/ware (D: form of „sein"=to be; E: Ware)

    and again some relatives of already known Enemies:
    funds, grinds, ranges, stabs, stalls
    #263Verfassersyl-de (MFESA)28 Okt. 02, 17:36
    Kommentar
    Amazing, syl! May I add this one:

    rank (D: rank und schlank=lite and lissom, E: Rang)
    #264Verfassermerluzzo28 Okt. 02, 17:51
    Kommentar
    "wider" (as opposed to "wieder"),given by stefan i think, is arguably not a word but a morpheme since "wider" needs an additional element to form a complete word: "widerspruch", "erwidern" and so on, so i wouldn't include it. Going by the rules, anyway...
    #265VerfasserMarc29 Okt. 02, 00:30
    Kommentar
    Marc, schon mal die Redensart "Für und Wider" (pros and cons) gehört? Oder "wider besseren Willens"? Oder "Wider den tierischen Ernst"?
    Wider ist noch quicklebendig !!
    #266VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;29 Okt. 02, 01:01
    Kommentar
    hm wolf hast wohl recht gell? sorry, didn't want to clog the thread.
    #267VerfasserMarc29 Okt. 02, 02:12
    Kommentar
    @syl-de: sorry, but I object against "mess". The imperative of "messen" is "miss" (new spelling) or "miß" (old spelling), but definitely not "mess".

    "Miss" was contained in your posting of Oct. 21, 17:33:04 alreadfy.
    #268VerfasserReinhard II.29 Okt. 02, 08:07
    Kommentar
    Reinhard, I am afraid you are right. In my south German idiom I tend to use 'meß' instead of 'miß' (and I tend to stick to the old spelling). Nevertheless 'meß' is no proper word. I'll try to find ersatz...
    #269Verfassersyl-de (MFESA)29 Okt. 02, 10:31
    Kommentar
    Just came across
    unbar (D: cashless; E: aufsperren)
    hope that will make up for the 'mess' ;-)
    #270Verfassersyl29 Okt. 02, 14:11
    Kommentar
    plumps (D: bump?; E: Lote)
    #271VerfasserPA29 Okt. 02, 21:56
    Kommentar
    Könne mess im Deutschen vielleicht "Mess"' sein in einem Gedicht, in dem jemand zwar etwas für sein Seelenheil tut, aber aus rhythmischen Gründen das e nicht brauchen kann?
    #272VerfasserDonjo30 Okt. 02, 23:05
    Kommentar
    Arrgrgrg -- this thread is driving me nuts! No matter how hard I try, I cannot think of any false enemies. But this morning, with the help of the last entry, I found one!

    messer (DE:knife, E: apparently a purveyor of meat for ships or one who makes a mess, a muddler)
    #273VerfasserDoris L31 Okt. 02, 08:40
    Kommentar
    Well, congratulations to Doris for joining the ranks of people with FES
    #274Verfasser;-)31 Okt. 02, 10:44
    Kommentar
    Donjo, that's it! Indeed "Meß/Mess" is used frequently for "heilige Messe" in catholic areas. Try for example a Google-check of "Kölsche Mess". I found various attempts to assure one's Seelenheil like this: "Ich, Georg Laiminger zu Oettling und Angatha, meine eheliche Hausfrau, stiften eine ewige Meß in St. Andreas Capellen auf dem Berg..." ( http://www.ettling.de/kirche.htm )

    @Doris: congratulations and welcome! I was really surprised at your complete abstinence so far. However, be careful, this sport is highly addictive...
    #275Verfassersyl-de31 Okt. 02, 11:05
    Kommentar
    still d: leise, e: immer noch
    #276Verfasserds31 Okt. 02, 14:33
    Kommentar
    can't believe it! Cheers to dg!
    #277VerfasserPA31 Okt. 02, 16:16
    Kommentar
    Sorry that I have to object to dg's "still". The English adverb/function word (immer noch) has the same origin as the adjective "still" (still, leise). This English "still" and the German "still" are going back to the same Germanic roots. Nevertheless "still" is a true false enemy:
    STILL (D: still, quiet; E: destillieren, Destillerie (short for to distill/distillery)
    #278Verfassersyl-de31 Okt. 02, 16:41
    Kommentar
    Before syl is going to deliver one of his enormous weekend-posts, I‘m adding my humble contribution by now.
    Gras (D: grass - E: Mardi Gras)
    rats (D: des Rats =advice, council - E: Ratten)
    #279VerfasserPA03 Nov. 02, 00:28
    Kommentar
    Abort?? Don't know if it has the same origin.
    #280VerfasserGabrielle03 Nov. 02, 07:04
    Kommentar
    Bingo, Gabrielle! Although 'abort' means the same in both languages (Fehlgeburt/miscarriage) and has the same origin (from Latin 'abortus', past participle of 'aboriri'=to miscarry) it is still a False Enemy: In German there is a second word 'Abort' derived from the lower German 'af-ort' (remote place) meaning toilet.
    #281VerfasserPA03 Nov. 02, 14:30
    Kommentar
    PA, you seem to have waited for it ;-) Here we go:

    Bärs/bars (D: genitive of Bär=bear; E: Bars, Schranken)
    baste (D: trump card, raffias; E: heften, begießen)
    bäte/bate (D: form of "bitten"=to beg; E: nachlassen)
    brook (D: sailor's knot; E: Bach)
    bode (D: river, confluent of river Saale; E: to bode ill/well)
    dinge (D: things; E: schmuddelig)
    düster/duster (D: gloomy; E: Staublappen)
    ewe (D: west-African people and language; E: Mutterschaf)
    flüster/fluster (D: imperative of "flüstern"=to whisper; E: aufregen)
    gable (D: form of "gabeln"=to bifurcate; E: Giebel)
    grabs (D: cf. to be up for grabs; E genitive of "Grab"=grave)
    grad (D: graduiert, Grad; E: just)
    grams (D: genitive of "Gram"=grief; E: Großmütter u.a.)
    gran (D: grain; E: Oma)
    grünt/grunt (D: es grünt so grün~it turns green; E: grunzen)
    hades (D: Hades; E: Neigungswinkel [pl.])
    hake (D; form of "haken"=to hook; E: Seehecht)
    Häme/hame (D: malice; E: Teil des Zaumzeugs, or: Scottish: Heim)
    hiss (D: imperative of "hissen"=to hoist; zischen)
    #282Verfasser#1/303 Nov. 02, 17:44
    Kommentar
    kibble (D: form of "kibbeln"=to be angry; E: mahlen)
    kor (D: past of "küren"=to choose; E: antike Maßeinheit)
    köre/kore (D: form of "küren"=to choose; E: Kore, antike Frauenstatue)
    läse/lase (D: form of "lesen"=to read; E: lasern)
    lode (D: bot.: "umgepflanzter Schößling"; E: Erzader)
    loden (D: Berlin: too long hair; E: Lodenstoff)
    magen (D: stomach; E: Magen David=Davidsstern)
    marl (D: Westphalian city; E: mergel)
    mars (D: the planet M.; E: schädigt)
    mögen/mogen (D: to like; E: Mogen David=Davidsstern)
    murre (D: form of "murren"=to grumble; E: Trottellumme, der Vogel)
    rase (D: form of "rasen"=to rush; E: vernichten)
    ratter (D: imperative of "rattern"=to clatter; E: Rattenfänger)
    rennet (D: imperative of "rennen"=to run; E: Kälbermagen, Lab)
    rode (D: form of "roden"=to stub; E: past of to ride)
    Rübe/rube (D: turnip; E: "an awkward unsophisticated person", M-W)
    rubble (D: form of "rubbeln"=to judder; E: Schutt)
    ruder (D: rudder; E: ungehobelter)
    rumple (D: form of "rumpeln"=to rumble; E: zerknittern)
    #283Verfasser#2/303 Nov. 02, 17:44
    Kommentar
    sät/sat (D: imp of "säen"=to sow; E: past of to sit)
    sauté (D: form of "sauen"=to mess up; E: sautiert)
    spar (D: imperative of "sparen"=to save; E: Holm)
    späte/spate (D: form of "spät"=late; E: Hochwasser)
    spätes/spates (D: form of "spät"=late; E: große Summen)
    spats (D: spavin's; E: Gamaschen)
    tales (D: genitive of "Tal"=valley; E: Erzählungen)
    talks (D: genitive of "Talk"= talcum; E: spricht)
    taster (D: calliper, scanner; E: Vorkoster)
    Täter/tater (D: committer; E: coll. für Kartoffel)
    tatter (D: imperative of "tattern"=to tremble; E: Lumpen)
    trug (D: past of "tragen"=to carry, or: deception; E: Gartenkorb)

    Yes, I do have a life! : ) Have a nice week all!
    #284Verfassersyl-de (MFESA)03 Nov. 02, 17:44
    Kommentar
    I knew it! How are you doing that? And when do you have your 'other' life?
    #285VerfasserPA03 Nov. 02, 18:17
    Kommentar
    Kann es sein, dass ich trotz der bereits vorhandenen phaenomenalen Liste auch eins gefunden habe?

    red (D: Imp. von reden(zumind. umgangssparchlich) - E:rot)
    #286VerfasserSilke04 Nov. 02, 03:14
    Kommentar
    und noch eins:
    well (D: Imp. von sich wellen; to wave, E: gut oder Brunnen)
    #287VerfasserSilke04 Nov. 02, 05:17
    Kommentar
    splint D: cotter pin E: der Span
    ... und hier einer, der die Spielregel etwas ausdehnt:
    RAF D: Rote Armee Fraktion E: Royal Air Force
    #288Verfasserds04 Nov. 02, 09:13
    Kommentar
    Well done, Silke! even if 'well' has already been proposed - by myself ; )
    #289Verfassermerluzzo04 Nov. 02, 12:35
    Kommentar
    syl-de, honestly, how in the world are you doing that? What's your secret recipe for False Enemy catching? I am happy if I find one or two, but you produce them by the dozens !!
    #290VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt; (MFESA) 04 Nov. 02, 15:04
    Kommentar
    I am setting snares for them - and they are trapped before you can say FES... To be honest, my secret recipe contains rainy weekends, two good dictionaries, LEO, and the latest edition of "Golden Rules for the Funny False Enemy Hunt. 10 Successful Hunting Strategies Based on Recognisable Patterns in False Enemy Behaviour". This valuable little booklet can be ordered from me for only 100 USD/EUR.

    Btw, I have to correct the very first entry of my weekend posting. The English tranlation of 'Bär/Bärs' should read 'ram, pile-driver' instead of 'bear'. Of course, the genitive of the animal would be 'des Bären', while the genitive of the ramming device of the same name is "des Bärs".
    #291Verfassersyl-de04 Nov. 02, 17:28
    Kommentar
    syl-de, about your Bär troubles - don't feel bad, I had some of these myself. See

    http://www.leo.org/cgi-bin/dict/forum/forum.c...

    Where I got the accusative of Bär wrong (as Ingrid was quick to point out).
    #292VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt; (MFESA) 04 Nov. 02, 18:40
    Kommentar
    Glad that I could correct myself before Ingrid got wind of the mistake ;-) Your Bär troubles might have to do with your last name...
    #293Verfassersyl-de (MFESA)04 Nov. 02, 19:35
    Kommentar
    Sums:
    D= unnoetiges Gerede
    E= amounts
    #294Verfasserdg04 Nov. 02, 20:35
    Kommentar
    lunger
    D: imperative of lungern=to loaf
    E: Lungenkranker
    #295VerfasserPA04 Nov. 02, 20:51
    Kommentar
    are: sind - Mz. von Ar
    most: Saft - höchst, größt
    plant: to map - Anlage
    Stag: stay - Hirsch
    Stage: stays - Bühne
    #296Verfasserds05 Nov. 02, 15:19
    Kommentar
    ds, kommst du aus der schweiz? wegen der merkwürdigen Stag-Wörter ; )
    übrigens, 'most' hatten wir schon. : (
    #297VerfasserPA05 Nov. 02, 15:50
    Kommentar
    sg, du hast mich auf ein paar weitere 'merkwürdige Wörter' gebracht ;-)

    rag (D: imperative of "ragen"= to protrude; E: Lumpen)
    vag (D: vaque; E: slang für Landstreicher u.anderes)
    zag (D: imperative of "zagen"=to hesitate; E: in etwa: Haken vgl. M-W)
    prang (D: imperative of "prangen"= to flaunt; E: brit: Unfall)
    stages (D: genitive of "stage"= Swiss for work placement or so...; E: Bühnen)
    #298Verfassersyl-de (MFESA)05 Nov. 02, 17:31
    Kommentar
    Holt schon mal den Schampus aus dem Kühlschrank...
    Get the bubbly from the fridge...
    #299Verfasser297...298...299...05 Nov. 02, 17:51
     Beitrag #300­ wurde gelöscht.
    Kommentar
    Zum "Jubiläum" spendiere ich eine aktualisierte Liste. Gesamtumfang 640 Wörter!

    Undisputed entries (575):

    A-F:
    ab, abate, abo, abort, ad, aids, all, alm, also, alter, am, an, angel, anger, angle, apart, are, arm, arms, art, as, ass, back, backer, bad, bade, bake, bald, band, bang, bap, bär, bärge, bark, barren, bärs, base, bass, baste, bat, bäte, bäte, be, beck, beet, befall, behalf, bell, belle, berate, bezirk, bezirks, bier, bilge, bin, bitten, blade, blasé, blast, blender, block, bob, bode, bog, boot, born, brat, bratling, brook, brüte, bück, bücket, bug, bunt, bürg, büss, butt, christendom, dang, dank, dankest, den, dick, dicker, die, diene, dies, ding, dinge, doing, doll, dose, dost, drum, duck, durst, düst, düster, eleven, elf, else, em, email, er, erst, es, ewe, fad, falter, fast, fasten, fastest, fee, fell, fells, fern, fes, fester, fetter, fink, finks, firm, first, flame, flatter, fleck, flick, flicker, flies, flog, floss, flüster, fond, form, former, fort, frag, fries, fug, fund, funds, funk, für, fürther, furze, fuss, gab

    G-L:
    gable, gaby, gaff, gaffe, gaffer, gage, gar, gas, Gaul, geld, genie, germ, gib, gilt, glut, göre, grab, grabs, grad, grade, gram, grams, gran, grant, Gras, grate, griff, grille, grind, grinds, grips, gross, grub, grünt, guck, gut, guts, hades, hag, hake, half, hall, häme, happen, harken, hart, hast, haste, hasten, hat, haute, heck, heft, held, hell, heller, heller, helm, her, herb, herd, herein, hinge, his, hiss, hob, hock, hocker, hold, holder, hole, holler, horst, hotter, hub, hummer, hut, inn, ire, island, jag, jammer, junker, kerb, kibble, kind, kipper, kitten, knack, knacker, knacks, knicker, kohl, kor, köre, lab, lack, lad, lade, laden, lag, lake, läse, lass, last, latte, latten, lech, leer, leg, lest, lied, lief, liege, lies, limo, limos, link, linker, links, list, listen, lob, lobe, loch, lock, locker, lode, loden, log, löge, lore, lose, loser, loses, löss, lost, lot, lug, lüge, lump, lunge, lunger, lurch, lurches
    #301Verfassersyl-de05 Nov. 02, 19:49
    Kommentar
    M-R:
    mach, mâche, made, mag, magen, main, male, malt, man, männer, mantel, mär, marge, mark, marl, mars, mass, mast, mäster, mate, matte, matter, maul, mess, messer, messing, met, minder, mine, mint, miss, mist, mitten, modern, mögen, mole, moll, Moor, moos, moose, moped, mops, most, möve, müd, muff, mull, mure, murks, murre, muse, muss, muster, mute, mutter, natter, neck, nett, netter, nix, not, note, nun, nut, pack, page, paps, pate, pike, placket, plane, plant, plump, plumps, Po, pole, police, poller, posse, prang, prise, pro, puff, puffs, pule, puller, pulli, pummel, pump, pup, pups, quake, qualm, qualms, quark, quell, quote, racker, rad, rag, rage, rain, rand, rang, range, ranges, rank, rappel, rappels, raps, rase, rat, rate, rats, ratter, red, regal, reif, rein, rennet, rest, ret, reuse, rick, riff, rind, rinds, ring, rings, rock, rocks, rode, roll, rose, röster, rot, rote, rotten, rubble, rübe, ruck, ruder, rumple, rums, rüst

    S-Z:
    sack, sag, sage, säger, sagest, sake, säle, salve, same, sarge, sass, sät, säte, sauté, schmuck, schnalzen, see, seen, seine, seines, sense, sicken, siege, singe, sold, sole, span, spanner, spar, spare, spat, späte, spätes, spats, speck, spelt, spiel, splint, spötter, spree, spur, spurt, stab, stabs, stag, stage, stages, stall, stalls, star, stare, stern, stile, still, stock, stolen, store, strand, stuck, such, sud, summer, sums, sünder, sure, süss, tag, tags, tale, tales, talk, talks, tang, tank, tarn, taste, taster, tat, täter, tatter, taut, tee, teil, teller, tellers, these, tick, tier, tod, toll, ton, tor, tore, törn, tot, tote, totes, trans, traps, trier, trinket, trug, trunk, tucker, tülle, tun, tut, unbar, unreel, vag, wade, wag, wage, wale, walker, wallet, wand, wank, want, war, ward, wäre, wart, was, watt, wedding, welch, well, welt, wen, werf, wetten, wetter, wider, wog, worms, wort, zag
    #302Verfassersyl-de05 Nov. 02, 19:51
    Kommentar
    Disputed entries (65):

    after, Allen, artist, beamer, blank, bomber, brand, brave, braver, brief, cafeteria, chef, colt, courage, fade, fall, fang, fix, fusion, gang, genial, genie, gift, glibber, gymnasium, hamburger, handy, hang, haste, hose, just, labor, lager, mode, null, old-timer, pest, Platte, pope, post, probe, promotion, provision, pylon, queue, quote, RAF, roller, roman, routine, smoking, spinner, spleen, spring, springer, stand, stark, strafe, tripper, turn, turner, wall, web, will, wink
    #303Verfassersyl-de05 Nov. 02, 19:52
    Kommentar
    speaking of AR :)
    #304Verfasservi05 Nov. 02, 19:58
    Kommentar
    what are you doing *here*? go and stick with your 'derogative terms'...
    #305Verfasser; )05 Nov. 02, 20:10
    Kommentar
    1) Pütt-putt
    D=Grube
    E=a golf swing

    2)Putz
    D=plaster or imperative of putzen
    E=idiot(slang)
    #306Verfasserdg06 Nov. 02, 01:03
    Kommentar
    fest:
    D= bestaendig,zaeh,stark,usw.
    E= occasion,gathering (from German Fest)(found
    in several online dictionaries as an inde-
    pendent word)
    #307Verfasserdg06 Nov. 02, 05:49
    Kommentar
    zig:
    D=many(seit zig Jahren)
    E=to zig (I zigged when I should have zagged)
    #308Verfasserdg06 Nov. 02, 06:13
    Kommentar
    um:
    D= (preposition)
    E= (hesitation word)
    #309Verfasserdg06 Nov. 02, 06:49
    Kommentar
    @ PA: Ich komme aus Hamburg, lebe jetzt in Bayern. Ein Stag spannt den Mast eines Segelbootes in Längsrichtung ab (Wanten quer).
    Vermutlich bedeutet das Wort in der Schweiz etwas anderes?
    Sorry für most.

    dös (Imperativ von to doze) - does (es tut)
    Müll (garbage) als Ergänzung zu dem bereits genannten mull
    #310Verfasserds06 Nov. 02, 07:39
    Kommentar
    Skull (D) = rudder for sport boats
    skull (E) = Schaedel

    I don't know the origin of the German word Skull and have no idea whether it is in any way connceted to "Schaedel".
    #311VerfasserPiet06 Nov. 02, 10:59
    Kommentar
    Deck (D) = same word in English
    deck (E) = Spielkartenstapel

    I Don't know if this counts if the english word also has the same meaning, among others
    #312VerfasserPiet06 Nov. 02, 11:16
    Kommentar
    gaze (E) = bestaunen, anstarren
    Gaze (D) = gauze
    #313VerfasserPiet06 Nov. 02, 11:20
    Kommentar
    plan D: die Platte ist plan/eben E: Entwurf etc.
    Fleet D: schiffbarer Kanal in Städten E: Flotte
    drops D: saure Drops E: to drop
    Rom D: Hauptstadt von Italien E: read only memory
    Term D: math. Ausdruck E: Amtszeit
    #314Verfasserds06 Nov. 02, 11:23
    Kommentar
    Whith this URL, a decent English dictionary (word list) an a bit of scripting it would be possible to automate the search
    http://mr-check.xipolis.net/1849f11f27d285e35...
    simply feed the wordlist into wget and replace the XXX by the words from the list. This will produce a rather comprehensive list of F.E.s and F.F.s. But it would also blow the fun.
    #315VerfasserPiet06 Nov. 02, 11:44
    Kommentar
    Finally I had the time to go through all the given definitions of false enemies. And I dare to say that right now I have understood. Considering that, I have to admit that most of the "tons of words" I mentioned above don't really fit and can be thrown away immediately. By the way, anyone who is looking for some interesting new words may be interested to have a look at Douglas Adams' "The Meaning Of Liff" and "The Deeper Meaning Of Liff". Read and enjoy (the concept's not a bad one - we might pick it up here when some day this thread has run out).
    #316VerfasserK.S.06 Nov. 02, 14:24
    Kommentar
    for Peter or Thread-Polizei: do acronyms count(ROM--Read Only Memory)?

    drop - probably cognate
    deck - probably cognate
    fest-Fest - are these cognates im deutschen?

    That:
    D= in der That!
    E= demonstrative
    (do old spellings count?
    #317Verfasserdg06 Nov. 02, 19:59
    Kommentar
    Do names count?
    Till-till (D. männl. Vorname; E: until)
    #318VerfasserKaren06 Nov. 02, 20:40
    Kommentar
    1)Bums
    D="thud"
    E=Penner

    2)Dings
    D=variant of Ding
    E=plural of ding

    3)Tippet
    D=subjunctive 1 2nd person plural of tippen(ihr tippet)
    E=shoulder covering or cape

    4)Mucks
    D=keinen Mucks sagen
    E=3rd person singular of to muck

    5)Mucker
    D=Schleicher
    E=someone who mucks

    6)Muckers
    D= genetive of Mucker
    E= plural of mucker


    #319Verfasserdg07 Nov. 02, 02:22
     Beitrag #320­ wurde gelöscht.
    Kommentar
    lustige Idee...

    tube(auf deutsch nur "tube" auf eglisch aber (neben "Tube")fast unzählig viele bedeutungen)
    nick, brut (trocknen/brood), soda (?),
    alt ("alt"-key??),
    he (not really a german word),
    fallen, germane (auf den bin ich ganz stolz),
    agent, nag, teenager :-) (Auch wenn "Teenager" nicht wirklich ein deutsches Wort ist, denke ich es ist ein "falscher Feind", da man "Teenager" auch auf deutsch lesen kann, obwohl es nicht wirklich Sinn macht)
    pause, bit, reservoir,
    #321VerfasserClaude Martin07 Nov. 02, 15:48
    Kommentar
    toller:
    D=toller Kerl
    E= ringer of bells;toll collector

    Holders
    D=genitive of Holder
    E=plural of holder

    Pollers:
    D=genitive of Poller
    E=plural of poller

    Hollers
    D=genitive of Holler
    E=3rd person singular of to holler
    #322Verfasserdg07 Nov. 02, 21:21
    Kommentar
    amid D: Amid (chem.) E: inmitten

    kommt es mir nur so vor oder wird es allmählich zäh? Na, hoffen wir darauf, das bei Syl am Wochenende schlechtes Wetter ist ;-)
    #323Verfasserds08 Nov. 02, 09:10
    Kommentar
    WhatŽs about "relief"?
    E: Erleichterung
    D: Relief (structured painting)
    #324VerfasserKati09 Nov. 02, 12:43
    Kommentar
    Unhold:
    D=Ungeheuer
    E=to unhand

    Brand - this seems to be a true enemy.
    Relief - probably cognate (both from French relever)

    We need a referee. There are false friends and loanwords sneaking in here. Where is Peter?
    #325Verfasserdg11 Nov. 02, 02:18
    Kommentar
    Golf:
    D=Meeresbucht
    E=Sportart

    Stuemper-stumper
    D=Pfuscher
    E=Raetsel

    Puffer
    D=Stossdaempfer
    E=Zigarettenraucher

    Stob:
    D=past of stieben
    E=wood stake (regional US)
    #326Verfasserdg13 Nov. 02, 03:45
    Kommentar
    Funny excursion, my ideas:

    null
    äh, excursion
    ? zig
    e: zig-zag
    d: zig "Zehner im Ganzen"
    best (das best Mögliche)
    #327VerfasserAlex13 Nov. 02, 09:37
    Kommentar
    i missed:
    Auto
    limit

    sorry about zig, I've posted it twice, but it isn't in syl's list.
    #328VerfasserAlex13 Nov. 02, 09:47
    Kommentar
    ...
    Gold
    Imitation
    ...
    #329VerfasserAlex13 Nov. 02, 09:53
    Kommentar
    Kern
    fern
    horn
    #330VerfasserAlex13 Nov. 02, 13:34
    Kommentar
    Alex, why are horn, imitation, gold, and limit "false enemies"? Am I missing something?
    #331VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;13 Nov. 02, 15:32
    Kommentar
    OK Hans Wolff,
    I also take back excursion and auto. Next time I will read the 1st posting of the thread a little more accurate. I will try to find words fitting the requirements.
    #332VerfasserAlex13 Nov. 02, 17:10
    Kommentar
    This is a re-post of "kerb", initially posted by Amelie on Jul 25: (G: imperative of kerben). It occurred to me that Kerb is also a dialect word for "Kirchweih, Kirmes", for those of us (like myself) who grew up speaking Rheinhessisch. I am not sure whether Duden lists it.
    #333VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;13 Nov. 02, 18:03
    Kommentar
    auf die Gefahr hin, dass es auch in die Liste der disputed entries kommt:

    falls (E: Mehrzahl Herbst(gibts das ueberhaupt?, oder 3. Person Sing. von to fall)
    falls (D: in case, if)

    und noch einen zweiten, der wahrsch. diskusionwuerdig ist:

    des (in "des res": Abkuerzung fuer desireable residence, attraktiver Wohnsitz)
    des (Genetivartikel)

    Das ist ganz schoen schwierig inzwischen. Immer wenn ich ueber einen Falschen Feind stolpere, schaue ich in der Liste nach und muss feststellen, da war schon jemand schneller. Aber ich gebe nicht auf!
    #334VerfasserSilke14 Nov. 02, 03:54
    Kommentar
    Banger:
    D=in banger Erwartung
    E=Wurst

    Fall/Falls - may be cognate
    Might i suggest some rules to prevent things from getting out of hand?
    1) check all previous entries before posting (fern,zig)
    2)no acronyms or abbreviations (ROM,alt,des)
    3)no proper names or geographic place names(till
    4)no loan words or false friends (teenager) Check the rules!
    just a suggestion.
    #335Verfasserdg14 Nov. 02, 05:11
    Kommentar
    @Silke's "falls" can also mean "Faellen" as in Waterfalls.
    #336VerfasserGabrielle, Canada14 Nov. 02, 08:16
    Kommentar
    I think I found another one. What about "stricken"?
    D: to knit
    E: past participle of "to strike" (betroffen)
    #337VerfasserGabrielle, Canada14 Nov. 02, 08:18
    Kommentar
    @dg - you state "no proper names or geographic place names" as one of the rules of the False Enemy game. I think you are going too far here - place names ARE allowed - according to Peter Czukor who started this thread, and made the rules (see his post from Sun Aug 18 07:47:27).

    So: Worms is a true False Enemy. (I was born in Worms, and that is always a source of amusement to my American friends.)

    What about proper names of people (or "given names")? You give the example of Till, as in Eulenspiegel. Dick would be another nice one.

    Peter's rules don't really say anything about given names. My personal feeling is that we would be opening the flood gates too wide if we allowed given names, with all their nickname varieties (Bob), short forms, etc.

    Oh Peter, great old man on the mountain, can we have a verdict about given names?
    #338VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;14 Nov. 02, 12:46
    Kommentar
    ... and about acronyms!
    (I'd suggest that acronyms that are spoken as words (e.g. ROM ['rom] instead of [ar'ou'em]) do count; often those are also no longer spelled in capitals and treated like normal words (laser, to laser etc.- though not a FE). To allow other acronyms IMO would "open the flood gates too wide", as almost any combination of (2-4) letters is used as an akronym in one or more specific fields. The proposed RAF for example has (according to Acronym Finder) ten different meanings in English, German and French.
    #339Verfassersyl-de (who's still addicted but quite busy at t… 14 Nov. 02, 13:12
    Kommentar
    @dg: I DID check the rules for "till", but I could not find a satisfying answer. That's why I asked for clarification (and posted only one name... ;-) ).
    I agree with Hans Wolff: allowing them would flood the list with names. I hope Peter will enlighten us soon.
    BTW, if those names are ruled out, those already on the list should be removed as well, right?
    #340VerfasserKaren14 Nov. 02, 16:55
    Kommentar
    @Karen: are there proper names on the list? can't see any.
    #341Verfassersyl-de14 Nov. 02, 20:24
    Kommentar
    @syl: I came across "else". Maybe I'm wrong and "else" is something else than a female name in German (I admit, I haven't checked the Duden or else for that matter and this is the only first name I came across on the list).
    #342VerfasserKaren14 Nov. 02, 23:06
    Kommentar
    @Karen & syl-de and proper names: What about Gaby?
    #343VerfasserGabrielle, Canada15 Nov. 02, 00:16
    Kommentar
    Rum:
    D=man sitzt rum
    E=der Rum
    (is 'rum' considered a true word im Deutschen?)

    Knitter:
    D=Falte
    E=someone who knits
    (are these cognates?)

    stricken-to strike -possible cognates?
    #344Verfasserdg15 Nov. 02, 02:36
    Kommentar
    I make the following points on today's comments:
    1) There seems to be a consensus for excluding proper names - so let's just do it!
    2) No consensus for excluding geographic names, but my case (at the risk of opening up a can of 'Worms') is the following: Anyone can open up a German or English atlas of the world and pick out some odd word from some odd country that is not a real German/English word (Po-not a real English word)and get a lucky match. This should be excluded.
    #345Verfasser1/215 Nov. 02, 02:46
    Kommentar
    3)Abbreviations - I hear no objections to excluding them, so I hereby declare them excluded.
    4)Acronyms - there are some that have become true words(laser),but most,even those that are spoken as words(ROM-spelled with capitals) must be excluded or the game will implode.
    #346Verfasserdg15 Nov. 02, 02:58
    Kommentar
    Question for Muttersprachler: Are words like 'drum', 'rum', considered Abkuerzungen or true words ?
    #347Verfasserdg15 Nov. 02, 03:13
    Kommentar
    @dg: 'drum', 'rum', 'wir ham' würden jedenfalls nicht in geschriebenem Text verwendet, da hieße es 'darum', 'herum', 'wir haben'.
    Vielleicht sollten wir als Regel die Beschränkung auf Schriftsprache aufnehmen.
    Dann müssen wir uns allerdings auch über die Befehlsformen ohne das 'e' am Ende einigen (rag', zag', sag', dös').

    Falls wir uns nicht auf Schriftsprache beschränken:
    ham (s.o)
    #348Verfasserds15 Nov. 02, 08:23
    Kommentar
    #1/2
    @ds: Zur Frage, ob der Imperativ Singular in Deutschen mit oder ohne -e Endung gebildet wird (und ob deswegen "sag" ein legitimer Falscher Feind ist oder nicht): Rein gefühlsmäßig würde ich sagen: Auf jeden Fall ist "sag" erlaubt, neben "sage". Aber mit dem Sprachgefühl ist das so eine Sache ...

    Nach kurzer Google-Suche fand ich folgende Seite:
    http://www.uni-leipzig.de/~rotheh/verbf2.htm
    Hier (in Abschnitt 2.2.6. Formen des Imperativs) definiert Horst Rothe, Fachmann für Computerlinguistik, die Imperativ-Regeln mit einer Genauigkeit, die nichts zu wünschen übrig läßt. Schau (oder schaue) dir den Absatz an, der beginnt mit "Zusätzlich ist die Imperativform ohne die Endung -e erlaubt, wenn...".

    Also: "Geig mir ein Lied" ist kosher, und somit auch "Sag die Wahrheit", ohne Apostroph.
    #349VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;15 Nov. 02, 16:01
    Kommentar
    #2/2
    ine ganz andere Frage ist, ob einige der hier als Falsche Feinde angeführten Imperativ-Formen sinnvoll sind, d.h. ob sie jemals von einem vernünftigen Menschen tatsächlich gesagt werden. syl-de hat in ihrem Beitrag vom Nov 5 17:31:40 2002 ein paar "Hämmer" dieser Art:
    - zag (na gut, "zag nicht" ist in einem Gedicht denkbar)
    - rag (auch hier könnte man einen Fall konstruieren)
    - prang (ehrlich, syl-de, sag mir eine Situation, wo jemand diesen Imperativ verwendet).

    Ob solche Imperative korrekt sind, ist eine ähnliche Frage wie: Ist "er gebiert" korrekt? Die 3. Person Singular von "gebären" ist bekanntlich "gebiert". Aber gebären kann nun einmal nur eine "sie", nicht ein "er".
    #350VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;15 Nov. 02, 16:02
    Kommentar
    @dg: I'm not familiar with alot of language resources... Where could one check if two words are cognates before adding them to this posting?
    #351VerfasserGabrielle, Canada15 Nov. 02, 17:58
    Kommentar
    'bot'

    Salut Gabrielle,

    Not sure if you meant on-line resources or not. In any case, I'm not aware of any single resource that attempts to directly match inflected forms of German and English to determine if they're cognates or not. But if you have a knowledge of how German words and inflected, then armed with that knowledge and a good monolingual English dictionary with etymological information (there are many) should do the trick. To be 100% sure you'd need a German one as well, but for many words you can do without.

    Take your candidate word, 'bat' for example. My desk-size Webster's Collegiate tells me that Engl. 'bat' (club) comes from ME. < OE 'batt' probably of Celt origin, akin to Gaulish 'andabatta' meaning gladiator. We can pretty safely assume that the inflected German past tense form 'bat' is not related to that, but could check a German dictionary under 'bitten' just to make sure.

    One way to try to find new ones is to look at a conjugated verb table of German verbs, and find verb forms that look like they might be English words, and then check them in a dictionary.

    I just found a new False Enemy 'bot' that nobody seems to have mentioned; it's a form of 'bieten' (don't ask me I don't know which one) and of course is used these days in internet lingo. We could probably find a whole lot more this way.

    T'es pas francophone par hasard? Je me sens moins perdu en français qu'en allemand...
    #352VerfasserPeter &lt;us&gt;17 Nov. 02, 08:39
    Kommentar
    Hi everybody, just wanted to jump in to respond to some of the questions that have started piling up.

    Who ever thought this would go on this long and that we'd need to think about the rules so carefully?

    But since behind all the fun there is a useful purpose, if I don't know the "rule" myself because I never thought of the situation before, I can go back to the "noise word" situation myself to think if there's any help to be found there.

    In general, there wouldn't really be any reason to exclude anything that is understood by a speaker of the language encountering the word. Thus from that standpoint, you could include practically all of the categories mentioned.

    On the other hand, I do tend to agree with Hans who said, that it seems to be opening the floodgates too wide. Probably we should relegate geographical names to the same category, for now.

    Shall we agree to do this? But as ultimately those too could be useful, shall we agree that it's just a moratorium, and if the current flood turns to a trickle someday, we will "reserve the right to reopen the floodgate" at a later time if we need to?

    Same thing with acronyms, although to make the game interesting, should we keep acronyms, as long as the FE is ALSO an acronym, and must be totally unrelated? This should be fun, too, so I'd almost like to just take a vote and see what people want, but I also realize the value of having a referee, so there's not endless dickering about it.

    Those would be my suggestions, but if there's a strong consensus for a different viewpoint, I can be convinced, so make your case!

    Finally, dg to your point about being a referee, I'd love to be a perfect bilingual with encyclopedic knowledge of both English and German etymology, but alas I'm very far from it; if I were, maybe I'd even rate being called the great old man on the mountain. But until then, I'm afraid we'll either just have to fight it out individually, unless someone comes along who is willing to take up that crown.
    #353VerfasserPeter &lt;us&gt;17 Nov. 02, 08:57
    Kommentar
    I THINK these words have different origins!

    wrack: D: wreck
    E: Variation of rack = floating vapors (different origin as the wrack which means shipwreck)

    wind: D: wind
    E: aufziehen (also pronounced differently than the wind which is a movement of air)
    #354VerfasserGabrielle, Canada18 Nov. 02, 08:02
    Kommentar
    Gabrielle,
    I have checked with my etymological dictionaries, and you have passed the congnate test.
    #355VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;18 Nov. 02, 13:21
    Kommentar
    This thread has now reached 356 follow-ups. This is more than any reader, given the period of time equal to the length of his/her lunch break, can be expected to survey and understand.
    Therefore we ask you to consider the use of adding any more posting.
    Thanks for your attention and have a nice day.
    #356VerfasserThe Very Serious Association Against Wasted Lunc… 18 Nov. 02, 14:08
    Kommentar
    Bagger - D: Excavator, E: he works as a bagger at WalMart

    Is it really possible that, after all these months, we have missed such an easy False Enemy?
    And a quick word of explanation about "bagger" for the folks back in the Fatherland: Wenn ich bei WalMart (oder sonst einem großen Einkaufsmarkt) an der Kasse bezahlt habe, muss ich meine Einkäufe nicht selber in Plastiktüten einpacken - nein, dafür gibt's Baggers, meistens Teenager, die mir diese Arbeit abnehmen.
    #357VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;19 Nov. 02, 01:40
    Kommentar
    ... und wenn besagte Bagger besonders freundlich sind, schaufeln sie einem die Sachen sogar ins Auto. ;-)
    #358VerfasserKaren19 Nov. 02, 01:47
    Kommentar
    Sorry to TVSAAWLBT for ruining your lunch hour, but as long as there are FEs out there to be corralled, the postings have to keep happening! (maybe we need a check of recent entries and a compilation, then people need only read from the latest list onward!)

    Thanks, Hans, for your help in etymology, what resources do you use? I searched the internet for an on-line German Dictionary like Duden which would give me roots of German words, but can you believe I didn't find any?

    So I'll need your help with a couple more:

    1. Tip: D -- Hint; E -- to overturn, possibly different origin

    2. Halter: D -- Holder/Keeper; E -- some weird bug part, check a dictionary, comes from the Greek "halteres"

    3. Halt??: D -- Stop; E -- Walk with a limp (may also come from "halten"???)

    Peter, pas francophone, mais bilingue (c'est-a-dire trilingue) avec moins de peine en Allemand qu'en Francais. Ce qui me manque, surement, c'est la pratique!

    By the way, I vote for no proper names at all. They can get so unusual with the most arbitrary spellings. Like our famous Canadian figure skater "Toller" Cranston. There's a good FE, but how would you check the etymology?
    #359VerfasserGabrielle, Canada19 Nov. 02, 03:24
    Kommentar
    Gabrielle, I mainly use two reference sources (and I mean the kind where you can flip pages made of actual paper, commonly called BOOK): Etymologie Duden, and the Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology.

    I have not found a really good online source yet. If you want to buy a book, here is a good list of etymology books: http://www.takeourword.com/strictlyEtymology.html. BTW, if you are interested in etymology, the takeourword site is a blast !!

    All 3 of your False Enemies have passed the cognate test. "Halt" as in "walk with a limp" has a different etymology than German "halten" (which surprised me). About "halter" - you don't even have to resort to Greek bug words. "halter" as in "rope for leading a horse" would have done just fine, and, again surprisingly, is not a cognate of German "Halter" (it is, however, related to "Halfter").

    @Peter: I do not have "encyclopedic knowledge of English and German etymology", but I do have a few good dictionaries, and, more importantly, I really love researching the etymology of words. Therefore (twist my arm ...) I will volunteer to be the Cognate Police of the False Enemy Thread. It has been said that "in every German, there is a little policeman". So here is my big chance to live out my German policeman fantasies !!
    #360VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;19 Nov. 02, 05:57
    Kommentar
    Could it be that syl-de missed the following:

    sock (E=slang: to hit)
    stern (E=severe, or the aft part of a boat)
    refrain (G=refrain, E=abstain from action)
    Rüde/rude (D=male dog, E= not polite)
    sprit: (D=gasoline or alcohol, E=part of a sailboat)
    brut: (D=Brood, E=dry, said of wines)

    Also, I don't know if this counts as an English word, but it's in my dictionary:

    Tau: (G=dew, E=nineteenth letter in the Greek alphabet)

    Does "stick" work, or does the "sticky" kind of stick have the same origin as "sticken" in German? I'll let Hans be the judge (of all these entries). Wow, judge AND police!
    #361VerfasserGabrielle, Canada20 Nov. 02, 08:36
    Kommentar
    Gabrielle, your list is cognate-free, with one exception: stick (rod) and stick (as in sticky) and German stick (von sticken) all go back to the same Indo-European root. I would have guessed that "refrain" is a cognate, but refrain (song) and refrain (abstain) actually go back to different French/Latin verbs. What does "sock" mean in German?
    #362VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;20 Nov. 02, 13:07
    Kommentar
    If we count Gabrielle's "Tau", we should keep in mind that the twelfth letter in the Greek alphabet is "My". (The advantage of these Greek letters is that they can serve as either part of a False Enemy pair.)

    Another one: the Rhine has two tributaries called Ill (the first one in Vorarlberg, Austria, the second one in Alsace).
    #363VerfasserReinhard II.20 Nov. 02, 15:01
    Kommentar
    @ Reinhard II - the latest ruling is that geographical names are out (see Peter's post from Sun Nov 17 08:57:29 2002). Place names are a "can of Worms" (pun intended).
    #364VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;20 Nov. 02, 22:53
    Kommentar
    Oh, sorry. I was thinking "Socke" and too tired to realize "sock" is english too! So don't add this one to the list.
    What about "passage" instead?
    D: Passage (from the french "passer")
    E: To cause a horse to move sideways (comes from L "passus": a step)
    #365VerfasserGabrielle21 Nov. 02, 03:48
    Kommentar
    Gabrielle, both passage (E) and Passage (D) go back to Latin passus. Sorry ...
    #366VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;22 Nov. 02, 00:49
    Kommentar
    It's time to bring this thread to the top of the list again. Today, I stumbled across the following False Enemy:
    Drilling (G: triplet; E: Bohren)
    #367VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;27 Nov. 02, 06:06
    Kommentar
    sofern hier auch das folgende passt:

    sued (e: verklagt)
    sued (vorsilbe, falls der umlaut umschrieben wird für d: south)
    #368VerfasserFelix27 Nov. 02, 08:55
    Kommentar
    pore - (G: pore; E: etwas genau studieren)

    I am going to post any new False Enemies one by one, so we can catch up with the CHAT thread.
    #369VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;28 Nov. 02, 00:31
    Kommentar
    This thread at least has some intelligence value!...

    Oede/Ode: D- Waste, E- Lyric Poem
    #370VerfasserGabrielle, Canada28 Nov. 02, 01:14
    Kommentar
    Hans, you could also do a new list, incorporating all the words added since the last list. You could post the list in several boxes, that would increase the length of the thread. Plus for the rest of us still trying to find those few elusive FE's, an updated list makes it easier to prevent duplication.
    #371VerfasserGabrielle, Canada28 Nov. 02, 01:25
    Kommentar
    couldn't find it in the thread, therefore:

    sticker - G: embroiderer, E: tag or label

    could you check the etymology?
    #372Verfassersarl01 Dez. 02, 18:04
    Kommentar
    sarl, sorry, but both G "sticken" and E "stick" are derived from Germanic *stik, pierce, be sharp. Another cognate in the same family is E "stitch".
    #373VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;02 Dez. 02, 00:58
    Kommentar
    OK all you turkeys,I'm back from Thanksgiving vacation with more FEs. I could list them one to a post to raise the thread count, but that would be LAME.
    1)Lame
    D=Lamé(textil)
    E=lahm;doof
    2)Suds
    D=genitive of der Sud
    E=Seifenschaum
    3)Flitter
    D=Flitterschmuck
    E=someone who flits
    4)Rüffle-ruffle
    D=1st person of rüffeln
    E=Rüsche
    5)Butte
    D=flounders
    E=Spitzkuppe
    6)Hicks
    D=Schluckauf
    E=Hinterwäldler
    7)Hack
    D=imperative of hacken
    E=trite;horse for hire
    8)Flaps
    D=Flegel
    E=Klappen
    9)Mall
    D=crazy
    E=Einkaufzentrum
    10)Wacker
    D=tapfer
    E=stupid person(slang)
    #374Verfasserdg02 Dez. 02, 03:40
    Kommentar
    11) mither
    D=(seems to mean the same as 'mithin')
    E=Nervi(BE slang,found in online dictionary)
    12)öde-ode
    D=verlassen
    E=Gedicht
    13)Walk
    D=imperative of walken
    E=spazieren
    14)Banner
    D=das Banner
    E=someone who bans something
    15)Bürst-burst
    D=imperative of bürsten
    E=Bruch
    16)Pol
    D=der Pol
    E=Politiker(slang)
    17)Blend
    D=imperative of blenden
    E=Mischung
    18)Bins
    D= 'ich bins'
    E=Behaelter
    19)Ran
    D='ran an die Arbeit!'
    E=past of to run
    20)Wollmilchsau
    D=eierlegende Wollmilchsau
    E=just kidding
    (corrections and comments welcome)
    #375Verfasserdg02 Dez. 02, 03:52
    Kommentar
    sorry Gabrielle,I missed your oede/ode. Scratch number 12.
    #376Verfasserdg02 Dez. 02, 04:11
    Kommentar
    Wow, dg, you are outdoing yourself. I especially like "butte".
    I have reservations about "bins" - for the very reason that you give in your post from Fri Nov 15, where you asked:
    Question for Muttersprachler: Are words like 'drum', 'rum', considered Abkuerzungen or true words ?
    And the answer is: 'drum' and 'rum' may be OK, but definitely not "bins". Because really there should be an apostrophe in that word: "bin's".

    Keep 'em coming !!
    #377VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;02 Dez. 02, 04:54
    Kommentar
    If we're still taking Greek Letters, there's
    "Nu"
    #378VerfasserGabrielle, Canada02 Dez. 02, 05:32
    Kommentar
    pries: D-past tense of "preisen"; E-3rd person singular of "pry"
    mir: E- a Russian local community
    meter: D-meter (unit of length) E- A person or thing that measures (from my dictionary, it looks like these come from different roots, although they both have something to do with "measure")

    Does "pony" count? Or are the German "bangs" similar to the pony's hair?
    #379VerfasserGabrielle, Canada02 Dez. 02, 05:42
    Kommentar
    Gabrielle- greek letters?,russian villages? - you've got to be kidding? Meter- surely this is the same word, what does your dictionary say? Pony - isn't this just a loanword from ponytail? Pries - I like it; how could i have missed it?
    Hans- I'm glad you liked butte - it was a beaut. I guess the distinction between 'bins' and 'rum','drum', and 'ran' is that the former is a contraction of two words and the latter are contractions of just one word.
    #380Verfasserdg02 Dez. 02, 19:52
    Kommentar
    @dg: we had a couple of Greek letters before (Tau and My) and Hans (self-appointed cognate policeman) has not yet given the verdict on those, so just in case they're in, we'll add "Nu". It turns out these are perfectly acceptable English words (or German, in the case of "My")
    As for "mir", it's in my English dictionary, definition is "a Russian local community, with common land apportioned by lot" (Funk & Wagnalls). Of course the origin is Russian, but I would use this word in English in the same way I would speak of "Kibbutz", I guess.

    As for meter, I have two definitions. One comes from Latin "metrum", a measure, which comes from Greek "metron" (this would be the German "meter"). The other one comes from the English word "mete" which means "to apportion" and comes from the Old English "metan", which may or may not have the same root as "metron"... I put this out for Hans to judge.

    As for "pony", maybe it should be listed in False Friends (if it isn't already). I've always found this a strange expression in German because it means the fringe of hair on the forehead, whereas the ponytail is the back hair pulled together.
    And no, I'm not kidding, I'm trying to find ones which have slipped through the cracks. The easy ones have been done already by other people when the going was easy....
    #381VerfasserGabrielle03 Dez. 02, 02:28
    Kommentar
    Gabrielle, sorry to be such a downer, but Latin "metrum", Greek "metron", Old English "metan" (and German "messen") all go back to the same root - if you dig deep enough. In this case, this means going back to the Indo-European root *med, which means "measure".

    As for the letters of the Greek alphabet - I see no rule in this thread that speaks against them. They are regular entries in all dictionaries, not proper names.

    I have another False Enemy for you which is based on the Greek alphabet:
    gamma (E: 3rd letter in the Greek alphabet)
    gamma (Bavarian for "let's go")

    Too bad the rules say that a FE has to be Hochdeutsch.
    #382VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;03 Dez. 02, 06:19
    Kommentar
    Leider hab ich im Moment gar keine Zeit, dennoch ganz schnell folgendes zu Protokoll: Mit der 'indogermanischen Verwandschaft' bin ich überhaupt nicht glücklich. Soll heißen, daß ich vorschlage, nur solche Wörter auszuschließen, die über *tatsächliche* Sprachen miteinander verwandt sind. Diese sog. indogermanischen Wurzeln sind eben keine Sprache sondern ein sprachwissenschaftliches Konstrukt. Recht eigentlich sind sie wenig mehr als eine These, die Vermutung eines Verwandschaftsverhältnisses und im Einzelfall oft umstritten. Ceterum censeo, in dubio pro FEo.
    #383Verfassersyl-de03 Dez. 02, 11:19
    Kommentar
    wert (past of "thou art")
    #384VerfasserMr B03 Dez. 02, 16:38
    Kommentar
    Dünk-dunk
    D=imperative of dünken
    E=eintauchen,-tunken

    Quill
    D=imperative of quellen
    E=Federkiel,Stachel

    you are right gabrielle,it's getting more difficult,but to allow foreign words is to get into that old can of worms. Ideally, this thread should gradually self-destruct.

    Hans- i forgot to ask, what was it like being on a diet of Worms when you were growing up?
    #385Verfasserdg03 Dez. 02, 20:19
    Kommentar
    der Stint (Fisch)/ stint (bird)
    Blinker / blinker
    Motte / motte
    Infusion / infusion
    Mist / mist
    Qualm / qualm
    Stapler / stapler
    Star / star
    der Kerf (Tier)/ kerv
    Chef / chef
    blank / blank
    #386Verfasservinzenz03 Dez. 02, 21:55
    Kommentar
    Gaffer / gaffer
    der Kipper / kipper
    Gully / gully
    Glut / glut
    die Flex / flex
    der Clinch / to clinch
    der Blitz / blitz
    Billion / billion
    #387Verfasservinzenz03 Dez. 02, 22:17
    Kommentar
    @vinzenz: bitte schau dir nochmal die Grundregeln der Falsche-Feinde-Jagd an (ganz oben oder vom 18. Aug.: wir suchen *keine* Lehn- u. Fremdwörterwörter u.ä.) und überprüf bitte per Browser-Suchbefehl, ob die vermeintlich neuen Wörter, die Du vorschlagen willst nicht schon lange vorgeschlagen/diskutiert sind.
    #388VerfasserPA04 Dez. 02, 16:30
    Kommentar
    1)Crack
    D=Meister
    E=Riss
    2)Cracks
    D=Meister-plural
    E=Risse
    3)Penner
    D=Stadtstreicher
    E=writer
    4)Kinder
    D=children
    E=more kind

    I am not sure if crack/cracks are false friends or enemies. I need a volunteer with a good dictionary to check the etymology.

    vinzenz- your list has one false enemy - stint - that is not yet listed. Congratulations and don't give up.
    #389Verfasserdg04 Dez. 02, 19:24
    Kommentar
    @syl-de -
    concerning your comment about my "dig deep enough" Indo-European root argument: OK, I admit it, I am being over-zealous. The etymology judge will no longer call hypothetical "Ur"-Languages to the witness stand. Gabrielle, your "meter" FE is re-instated.

    @dg -
    your question about a diet of Worms could not have been more timely. Believe it or not, my 10-year-old son came home from a field trip to the entymology department of Purdue University (and yes, I mean e*n*tymology - one letter makes the difference). He brought me a little bag full of roasted mealworms. They are really quite tasty!!

    Talking FE again, your "Kinder" (children / more kind) actually goes back to the same Indo-European root *kin. No kidding. But since I have just told syl-de that this argument is no longer permissible in court, "Kinder" is legitimate.


    On the constructive side, here is a new FE (which, admittedly, is a little lame):
    fest - D: tight, E: festival (borrowed from German Fest)
    #390VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;05 Dez. 02, 05:53
    Kommentar
    ... and before anybody else points it out: Yes, I remember now, it's ent*o*mology when you talk about bugs, etymology when you talk about words. I got this wrong in my previous post (and so did, by the way, 1670 websites - do a Google search on "entymology"!!).
    #391VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;05 Dez. 02, 07:12
    Kommentar
    @all FE-freaks: Wow, you did good work so far, I'm quite impressed. Never thought that anyone might keep at this for so long.
    Anyway, no chance to beat the Chatroom-thread again, even posting some new FEs one by one I bet. But just don't think you will stay unwatched for the future...
    #392VerfasserK.S.05 Dez. 02, 16:00
    Kommentar
    Käme-kame
    D=subjunctiveII of kommen
    E="glacially deposited ridge or mound of stratified drift"

    (not awe-inspiring, but legitimate)

    Hans - entomology or etymology, what about crack/cracks? Regarding fest, please check my post of Nov 6 5:49

    KS- this thread cannot continue much longer, but the chitter-chatter thread will endure.
    #393Verfasserdg05 Dez. 02, 21:37
    Kommentar
    @Hans Wolff: Wer hodn dir verzäid, daas "let's go" auf boarsich "gamma" hoassad? Duad ma leid, awa des miass ma schdreicha. "Let's go" hoassd "gemma".
    #394VerfasserRobert05 Dez. 02, 21:52
    Kommentar
    ...boarisch, of course. I'll mind the spelling.
    #395VerfasserRobert05 Dez. 02, 21:55
    Kommentar
    Hans: and I always thought entymology was the study of the origin of bugs... (wink) Thanks for all your many contributions. One question for you: I don't get what you don't like about 'bins'? To me it's a simple plural whose singular goes all the way back to OE (also a more recent verb).

    dg: you're right about the thread eventually self-destructing. On the other hand, it just makes it more fun and challenging to find new ones. I still think there's a class of words out there derived from inflected verb forms in German that may be FE's.

    As far as "competition" for longest thread, it's inevitable that a chat thread will win out in that category, and I see no reason we should try and inflate this thread just for that. For those who are interested in biggest/longest and so on, we could say this is the longest thread (so far) that is really about a single topic.

    Speaking of length, are people okay about the length and load time of this thread? I don't mind breaking it in two if there seems to be a consensus for that (I'd like to be the originator of the new thread if that's what we all agree should be done). On the other hand, if people feel it is already winding down, maybe it won't be necessary to start a new one.
    #396VerfasserPeter &lt;us&gt;06 Dez. 02, 05:39
    Kommentar
    Are all the words in the last compilation really FEs? Where did "Christendom" come from? Is that really a German word?

    @dg, if the "non-english" words are not to be included, then "latte" should also not be on the list.

    I have two more:

    Blende: D- diaphragm (photography)
    E- zinc sulphide
    Lande: D- first person singular of "landen"
    E- Level sandy region unfit for cultivation etc., same root as "lawn"

    I think this thread should be kept going at least until we have another compilation of all submitted words which actually prove to be real words and real cognates; and proper names such as Gaby and Po be removed (never heard of Gaby as an english word anyway).
    #397VerfasserGabrielle, Canada06 Dez. 02, 08:47
    Kommentar
    besiege (G: imperative of conquer, E: belagern)
    #398VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;12 Dez. 02, 00:55
    Kommentar
    Nachdem die FF-Quelle anscheinend versiegt ist: Peter, könntest du abschließend alle Wörter zusammen fassen, "for the record"?
    #399VerfasserLukas17 Dez. 02, 00:08
    Kommentar
    Not yet finished!:
    hops
    gips
    haft
    Forgive me if they've been mentioned already.
    #400VerfasserGabrielle, Canada17 Dez. 02, 08:04
    Kommentar
    Bravo, Gabrielle! You proved Lukas wrong, and found 3 more FEs. I had to think hard about each of these, since they are not obvious. Here is what I found:

    hops
    - G: imperative of hopsen, or slang expression "hops gehen" (to die).
    - E: plural of hop (Hopfen)

    gips
    - G: plaster, gypsum
    - E: plural of gip (a variant of gyp), "Nepp"
    . . . Gyp, by the way, has a racist past, because it comes from gypsy

    haft
    - G: arrest
    - E: handle of a sword, dagger (G "Heft")

    This last one is (you know what I'm going to say) a remote cognate - both words derive from Indo-european *kap (hold, grasp). But since I am no longer allowed to play the Indo-European card, it's a go!
    #401VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de&gt;17 Dez. 02, 12:20
    Kommentar
    totem:
    D='aus totem Winkel'
    E=Talisman

    Hold on. I said 'would gradually self-destruct'. I didn't say it was imminent. Yes,400 posts takes too long to load,but it would be a shame to stop it now. There do seem to be some dodgy entries on the main list: gras,gaul,bezirks,werf,worms, and some others I'm not sure about either.
    #402Verfasserdg18 Dez. 02, 05:12
    Kommentar
    Just when you thought we had reached the bottom of the barrel, I found 3 more False Enemies:

    ringer - (E) bell ringer, (G) wrestler

    strange - (E) peculiar, (G) dative of Strang, as in
    . . . . . . Schön wäre es, wenn sie nicht lögen
    . . . . . . und mal am selben Strange zögen"

    faultier - (G) sloth, (E) comparative of faulty

    I admit "faultier" is kind of shaky - you would probably form the comparative saying "more faulty".
    #403VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de/us&gt;30 Dez. 02, 07:21
    Kommentar
    Wind:
    D=(noun)der Wind
    E=(verb)winden,aufziehen

    This is also bottom of the barrel but according to m-w online the words have different origins.
    #404Verfasserdg31 Dez. 02, 01:34
    Kommentar
    sorry on 'wind'. It's been mentioned several times but i got lazy and didn't do a full search first.
    #405Verfasserdg31 Dez. 02, 05:46
    Kommentar
    2003! A new year has arrived,and with it new false enemies, though these may be towards the lower end of the barrel:

    Wack:
    D='das ist wack gut'(slang)
    E= Kumpel(BE)
    Buff:
    D=imperative of buffen-marihuana rauchen(slang)
    E=polieren
    Knicks:
    D=norddeutsche Wallhecken
    E=NYer Basketballteam
    Düpe-dupe:
    D=Wassertiefe im Hamburger Hafen
    E=betruegen
    Duff:
    D=glanzlos
    E=Hintern
    Duffer:
    D='mehr glanzlos'
    E=Trottel,unfaehiger alter Mann
    #406Verfasserdg03 Jan. 03, 02:53
    Kommentar
    still holding down the fort-
    Flute:
    D=1st person or imperative of fluten
    E=Floete
    Eh:
    D=sowieso
    E=interjection(listed in all the online dictionaries)
    #407Verfasserdg10 Jan. 03, 04:36
    Kommentar
    Go, dg, go!!! I particularly like your "flute" posting - it's such a simple and obvious False Friend (unlike your "Knicks - norddeutsche Wallhecken), that it's hard to believe nobody had found it earlier.
    #408VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de/us&gt;10 Jan. 03, 16:56
    Kommentar
    German "Knicks" can also mean "curtsy"
    #409VerfasserFE10 Jan. 03, 17:16
    Kommentar
    Yes, but I am a guy, and guys don't do Knickses. Guys "machen einen Diener" (gibt's das heute noch?)
    #410VerfasserHans Wolff &lt;de/us&gt;10 Jan. 03, 19:09
    Kommentar
    The term "False Enemies", while clever as an analogy to "False Friends" and, to some extent, "faux frères" [mots à ne pas confondre entre eux (mère/mer)] , strikes me as ambiguous. Why should there be in the first place an enmity between "Kind" and "kind", between "verging (vergehen)" and "verging (verge)? Is the enemy false (not worthy) or has the enemy been recognized as not being the right or real enemy? - May I suggest that we continue to use the traditional tripartite aspects of the word cognate, a word descended from a common ancestral language, namely genuine, deceptive, and accidental. Accidental cognates such as "bin", "flog", "berate" also have their etyma.
    #411VerfasserHajo17 Jan. 03, 18:32
    Die Diskussion zu diesem Artikel ist geschlossen.
     
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