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  • Topic

    euro vs Euro

    Hi! Is euro in a continous text written like this or is the capitalised "Euro" used?
    Authorcurrency14 May 08, 14:55
    In German it is "Euro".
    #1Authordodothegoof (237112) 14 May 08, 15:06
    "Die Gebühren sind in Euro zu entrichten"
    "The fees must be paid in euros"
    #2AuthorFranzM (251719) 14 May 08, 15:07
    @FranzM: Es wäre mir sehr neu, dass man Euro im Englischen klein schreibt und in den Plural setzt.
    #3AuthorBernd14 May 08, 15:29
    OALD und LDOCE sind sich einig, dass der Euro als Währung im Englischen sehr wohl klein geschrieben wird. Der Plural wird mit "s" gebildet. OALD gibt alternativ auch ohne "s" als Pluralform an.
    #4AuthorKlorix14 May 08, 15:47
    Euro noun (Euros) a European (noun senses 1 and 2).
    ETYMOLOGY: 1980s.

    euro noun (euros) finance1 a proposed common system of currency for countries in the European Union. 2 the basic monetary unit in this system.
    ETYMOLOGY: 1990s: from Europe.

    When the euro was first introduced, the plural was meant to be "euro", but most people use "euros", as they do "dollars" and "pounds", and dictionaries often don't even list "euro" as a plural.

    Google: Results 1 - 10 of about 17,600 from for +euros
    e.g. "Soaring cost of euros hits holidays abroad"
    #5AuthorCM2DD (236324) 14 May 08, 15:48
    Es scheint in der Tat etwas kompliziert zu sein.
    Sieh' dir einmal den folgenden Link an:

    (ich kann ihn leider nicht kopieren)
    #6AuthorFranzM (251719) 14 May 08, 15:49
    Comment is the proper link (above). That was written back in 2002, though - since then, "euros" has become even more settled:

    Results 1 - 10 of about 779 from for +euros
    1,040 from for +euros
    2,990 from for +euros

    If you're writing for the EU, though, they do seem to be using the "euro" plural, sometimes:

    1 - 4 of 4 from for "million euros".
    1 - 1 of 1 from for "million euro
    1 - 8 of 8 from for "billion euros".
    1 - 6 of 6 from for "billion euro
    #7AuthorCM2DD (236324) 14 May 08, 16:00
    @CM2DD: Danke für die Berichtigung.
    #8AuthorFranzM (251719) 14 May 08, 16:24
    Wenn ich das im Englischen richtig verstanden habe, könnte in den in #7 genannten "euro_"-Fällen das von Konstruktionen kommen wie:

    "a million euro project"

    Wenn ich von der Geldsumme an sich spreche, würde ich auch sagen:
    "3 billion euros is a large sum for a single project"

    Bin kein native, aber ich denke, dass das zumindest "acceptable" ist.
    #9AuthorKlorix14 May 08, 16:24
    True, I didn't think of that, Klorix. Let's have a look ... no, they are examples like:
    an additional €1.2 billion Euro per year will be generated
    an amount of 2 billion Euro
    a value of more than 716 billion Euro
    ... but could well all be written by Germans :-)
    #10AuthorCM2DD (236324) 14 May 08, 16:36
    It is not normal to capitalize any currency names in English.

    Official EU-speak says the plural of euro in English is euro, but the only people who use this form are the Irish (whose currency of course it is). However "euros" is universally the plural form in the UK. In this, the British are simply doing what they do with other currencies: 10 dollars, 10 pounds, 10 francs, 10 roubles etc. (not yen, though).
    #11Authorescoville (237761) 14 May 08, 16:47
    The dictionaries are right; the correct form is

    one euro, two euros

    It's just like other currencies in English, as escoville says. It's a common noun, not a proper noun, and the plural is absolutely regular.

    Yes, you do sometimes see *'euro' used as the plural, and perhaps especially in Euro-English (that is, English as spoken by speakers of French, German, etc.), but it's still wrong in standard English IMO. I don't think the EU has any authority to decree the form of an English word, so 'official' doesn't seem like quite the right term.

    Nouns used as adjectives, of course, don't take the plural:

    a four-hour meeting
    a two-year-old child
    a five-euro surcharge

    #12Authorhm -- us (236141) 14 May 08, 18:51
    The EU prescribes the use of Euro (singular and plural) for all languages. Euros is the usual exception for the United Kingdom and related countries.
    #13AuthorWerner (236488) 14 May 08, 19:30
    But that's just silly. The EU could 'prescribe,' if it wanted to, that we write 'Babys' in English instead of 'babies,' or 'european' instead of 'European,' or whatever, but it still wouldn't be right.

    The EU does not have any formal authority over the English language. Any such 'prescription' can only be wishful thinking. You can't force people to use a wrong form.
    #15Authorhm -- us (236141) 14 May 08, 19:37
    Sorry, 'silly' was my response to #13, not #14.
    #16Authorhm -- us (236141) 14 May 08, 19:38
    EU-Kommission und Bundesfinanzministerium wollen auf das "s" verzichten

    Die Europäische Kommission und das Bundesministerium der Finanzen schlagen vor, auf das "s" als Kennzeichnung des Plurals im Deutschen zu verzichten: 100 Euro, 100 Cent.
    Die korrekte Bezeichnung der gemeinsamen Währung findet sich in allen diesbezüglichen Rechtsakten der Europäischen Union und wird sogar von der Europäischen Zentralbank im Rahmen ihrer regelmäßigen Konvergenzberichte als De-facto-Konvergenzkriterium überprüft.

    Those do now look silly who don't know what they are talking about.

    #17AuthorWerner (236488) 14 May 08, 20:06
    Werner, your examples are for German, not English. The original question was about English, no? At least, since the writer asks about capitalization, which wouldn't be a question in German.

    Of course it would be silly to write 'Euros' in German, just as you don't write 'Pfunde' or 'Dollars' or whatever in the plural either when counting.

    It would be equally silly to write 'euro' as the plural in English, because we do say 'pounds' and 'dollars,' so we also say 'euros.'

    Either way, it is German speakers (or authorities such as dictionaries) who determine German usage, and English speakers or dictionaries who determine English usage -- not some EU decree.
    #19Authorhm -- us (236141) 14 May 08, 20:23
    OT re #18: No, of course not. There again, it's not a question of externally imposing authority against the will of the speakers (which would be impossible anyway), but of the inherent grammar of the language. (Though grammar does sometimes change over the centuries.) Other names of countries with plural forms are also grammatically singular, like the Netherlands or the Bahamas, because the reference is not to individual parts but to the concept as a whole. Singular-plural agreement is just different in English.
    #20Authorhm -- us (236141) 14 May 08, 20:38
    #15 hm-us:
    "But that's just silly. The EU could 'prescribe,' if it wanted to, that we write 'Babys' in English instead of 'babies,' or 'european' instead of 'European,' or whatever, but it still wouldn't be right.

    The EU does not have any formal authority over the English language. Any such 'prescription' can only be wishful thinking. You can't force people to use a wrong form."

    Na klar, wieder ein böser plot der bösen, bösen Eurocrats gegen die Briten ;-)
    Tatsächlich hat die EU vor Einführung des EURO EU-weit festgelegt, wie die Währung in den einzelnen Mitgliedsstaaten heißt und wie sie geschrieben wird (dass zum Beispiel die Griechen auf ihre Münzen und Scheine die Bezeichnung "Euro" (sin/pl) in griechischen Buchstaben schreiben dürfen. Da wir eine einheitliche Währung haben, ist dafür auch ein einheitliches Erscheinungsbild gewünscht. Wo kämen wir denn hin, wenn die Franzosen plötzlich die centimes wieder einführten ;-).

    Ich habe hier einen französischen (U) und einen italienischen (S), sowie einen deutschen (X) 20-Euro-Schein vor mir liegen (war bei der Bank heute :-) ). Alle tragen die Beschriftung "20 Euro/EYPO".

    Ich glaube kaum, dass die Briten durchsetzen können, dass die Bezeichnung geändert wird, sollten sie jemals dem Euro beitreten.
    #22AuthorGuggstDu (427193) 14 May 08, 22:09
    Well, yes, sure, they can determine what's printed on the actual notes, but you don't have to understand it as English. I would just assume that the form without the S is meant to represent some other (European) language, in which it's grammatically (more) acceptable.

    Which is fine -- there's also no reason that actual euro notes should have to have English on them. (-:
    #23Authorhm -- us (236141) 14 May 08, 22:20
    hm, im täglichen Umgang darf eh jeder sagen wie es ihm beliebt. Ich habe schon gehört, dass Leute das 10-Cent-Stück "Groschen" genannt haben. Und die Franzosen sagen wohl auch centime zum Cent.
    Wird alles also gar nicht so heiß gegessen, wie gekocht ;-).
    #24AuthorGuggstDu (427193) 14 May 08, 22:42
    Someone I know from another forum contacted a number of people, many years ago, and found out (IIRC eventually by direct contact with the BoE) that the use of the singular had been agreed by the Bank of England, though they were possibly thinking mainly of the banknotes.

    The EU may very well have the authority (especially after consulting national authorities) to decide what EU civil servants in the supranational institutions write, in particular when drafting EU legislation, treaties etc. That presumably also applies to freelance translators working for such institutions.
    #25AuthorMikeE (236602) 15 May 08, 08:11
    seems like I started a discussion here...

    thx 2 everyone!
    #26Authorcurrency15 May 08, 10:04
    Ich muss HM-US in jeder Hinsicht Recht geben. In der deutschen Sprache ist es von jeher nicht üblich die Währung im Plural auszudrücken. So hat man von 10 Deutsche Mark (nicht Marken), 12 Dollar (nicht Dollars) gesprochen. In der englischen Sprache hieß es dagegen stets 10 deutschmarks, 12 dollars. Warum sollte die englische Sprache wegen des Euro hier nun eine Ausnahmeregelung einführen. Es ist für mich absolut logisch in einem ENGLISCHEN Text von 10 euros zu sprechen, während ich im Deutschen 10 Euro (analog zu 10 Deutsche Mark)sage.
    #27AuthorJust an Idea15 May 08, 10:52
    As an aside, some currency units are not used in the plural, for instance the BE slang "quid" (pound), so it's always "ten quid" (never "ten quids").

    This is sometimes extended colloquially (IME particularly "working-class" or Laddish slang) to other units, as in "I paid ten pound for this!").
    #28AuthorMikeE (236602) 16 May 08, 08:46
    noch ein "aside": "yen" bekommt im Englischen ebenfalls kein Plural-s. (So weit ich weiß, ist der Grund, dass es sich bereits um einen Plural handelt.) (374487) 16 May 08, 08:56
    uuuups... und ich sehe gerade, dass das in #11 bereits erwähnt wurde. (374487) 16 May 08, 08:57
    @hm -- us: The ECB convergence report that Werner cited and the European Commission are concerned with all official languages of the EU, not only German. I suppose you did not actually read the German Wikipedia article on the euro.

    Also, of course the EU can only prescribe the terminology in official publications or national legislation of its member states.

    The euro will never be introduced in the US and it will probably take the UK a hundred years before they accept the euro, so Americans and Britons can just ignore what the EU says. The Irish don't seem to have a problem with the s-less plural.

    #31AuthorFrank FMH (236799) 16 May 08, 15:43
    The Directorate-General for Translation recommends that in all material intended for the general public, the regular plurals, euros and cents, be used. The European Commission Directorate-General for Translation's English Style Guide (A handbook for authors and translators in the European Commission) states: "Like ‘pound’, ‘dollar’ or any other currency name in English, the word ‘euro’ is written in lower case with no initial capital and, where appropriate, takes the plural ‘s’ (as does ‘cent’): This book costs ten euros and fifty cents." (Frank FMHs Link)

    Die plural-lose Form gilt nur für offizielle Texte und natürlich für die Aufschrift auf den Banknoten. Nicht nur, dass die EU nicht den allgemeinen Sprachgebrauch reglementieren kann, sie empfiehlt sogar selbst die übliche Form "euros" für allgemeine Texte!
    (Und selbstverständlich sagt man zu den Cents in Portugal cêntimos, in Spanien céntimos, in Italien centesimi etc.)
    #32AuthorRE1 (236905) 16 May 08, 16:40
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