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  • Betrifft

    as well as

    will man in einem satz "and" vermeiden, wird oft "as well as" verwendet...

    bsp: the machine "a" as well as the systems in hall "b" has/have problems

    has or have??????????

    bei "and" ist's wohl klar: the machine "a" and the systems in hall "b" have problems

    ich hätte ja auch "have" gesetzt bei "as well as" aber word akzeptirt dies nicht...
    Verfassersven23 Nov. 04, 15:21
    Da im zweiten Teil des Subjektes ein Plural steht (the systems) muß schon alleine deshalb der Plural des Verbes verwendet werden: have.

    Durch "as well as" werden zwei Dinge zusammengezogen zum (Gesamt-)Subjekt, das damit im Plural steht, dem das Verb folgen muß: have.
    #1Verfasseritzamna23 Nov. 04, 15:27
    when one or both of the terms in a phrase are in plural, the verb should be so too.
    this basic rule holds true here as well.

    machine A as well as machine B have problems.

    the problem here is that 'as well as' normally demands a Nebensatz with commas:

    machine A, as well as machine B, haS problems - would then be the correct term, since the Nebensatz is in a way unconnected to the main sentence.

    it is a phenomenon, that many Germans consider it good style in writing to avoid repetition of the same word.
    this may hold true for German, not necessarily so for English.
    i would recommend the use of 'and' here.
    #2Verfasserodondon irl23 Nov. 04, 15:28
    as well as - sowohl als auch
    @odndon....it's good style in English too, here it really depends what the rest of the text looks like. Personally I'd prefer as well as here, but I gues ut is a style question
    #3VerfasserJ23 Nov. 04, 15:35
    i want to use "as well as" because, it is like this (i wanted to simplfy the example):

    the machine "a" as well as the system "c" and the installation "d" have problems

    to point out that c and d are connected (belong together) it would be worse to say:

    the machine "a", the system "c" and the installation "d" have problems

    but "have" is ok either way (?) word demands "has"... try it!
    #4Verfassersven23 Nov. 04, 15:48
    the example you don't like: the machine "a", the system "c" and the installation "d" have problems - is the only correct one, and has the added advantage of avoiding the use of 'as well as'.

    a,b and c - this construction does not place undue emphasis on any connection between b and c that is dissimilar to that between a and b, and between b and c, and this information is in a sentence that is stylistically ok, yet manages to include 'and' seven times.
    #5Verfasserodondon irl23 Nov. 04, 15:57
    but i want to point out the connection between b and c...
    #6Verfassersven23 Nov. 04, 16:56
    1. Word kann nicht alles verstehen
    2. Poste doch den ganzen Satz und Du bekommst ihn richtige schöne formuliert
    3. Akzeptiere endlich, dass die Muttersprachler es besser wissen ;-)
    #7VerfasserGA23 Nov. 04, 17:07
    1. das weiss ich
    2. was ist deine muttersprache? ("poste", "richtige schöne")
    3. klar akzeptiere ich dies (sobald meine frage beantwortet wurde)
    #8Verfassersven23 Nov. 04, 17:13
    @sven - without getting personal there is a saying: a fool can ask questions even the wisest man can't answer. ;)

    why not, as GA has fairly suggested, give us the whole sentence with the complete wording?
    please do not refer to a,b,c, and d since your postings tend to juggle very freely with them, and this is confusing.

    if it is as easy as you suggest, and your example is ok, then the best way of writing it, and the way least likely to lead to confusion could be:

    the system c and the installation d, as well as the machine a, have problems

    here you have c and d together, connected, and can introduce a, as being related to c and d through being defective, without running risk of anyone thinking that there is a narrower connection between them.
    #9Verfasserodondon irl23 Nov. 04, 17:21

    I have a suspicion that German native speakers equate as well as with sowie – they simply see it as a convenient alternative to und/and. To me, this is a telltale sign that an English text has been written by a German (although not as excruciating as A respectively B).

    #10Verfasser Stravinsky (637051) 15 Okt. 19, 08:55

    Agree with #10. Unfortunately, even translations created by NESs will often translation "sowie" as "as well as" even when a simple "and" would have sufficed in the English (and, likely, "und" would have sufficed in German had the write not been attempting to repeat that word).

    #11Verfasser hbberlin (420040) 15 Okt. 19, 10:35

    "attempting to AVOID to repeat", oder?

    In welchen Fällen würdet Ihr denn "as well as" empfehlen - oder zumindest entschuldigen?

    #12Verfasser B.L.Z. Bubb (601295) 15 Okt. 19, 10:48

    Correction to #11: "...had the writer not been attempting to avoid repeating that word)."

    That's what happens when you're trying to cut way down on your morning coffee while at the same time trying to make some sort of contribution to the thread in between tight deadlines involving rescuing poor translations.

    There's a longer discussion of the topic here.

    "As well as is not a synonym for and

    As well as cannot be used to mean and. The expression X as well as Y means not only Y but also X (note that X and Y are reversed). While and simply conjoins two (or more) expressions, as well as places unequal emphasis on the two expressions — the expression preceding as well as carries a stronger emphasis than the expression following it.

    John, as well as Mary, came to the party. [not only Mary but also John; emphasis on John]

      The programme aims to recruit Sami students as well as students from other countries. [not only students from other countries but also Sami students; emphasis on Sami students]"

    #13Verfasser hbberlin (420040) 15 Okt. 19, 11:31

    The expression as well as is more emphatic than a simple and, so I’d reserve it for cases that suggest sowohl … als auch or nicht nur …, sondern auch.

    #14Verfasser Stravinsky (637051) 15 Okt. 19, 11:33

    Danke. Das muss ich mir jetzt nur noch merken ;-)

    #15Verfasser B.L.Z. Bubb (601295) 15 Okt. 19, 11:34

    Um noch was ganz anderes in die Runde zu werfen: Im lang verschollenen OP hätte ich wahrscheinlich geschrieben:

    Both A and B have problems.

    #16Verfasser Gibson (418762) 15 Okt. 19, 12:46
 ­ automatisch zu ­ ­ umgewandelt