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    Hat ambitious eine negative Konnotation


    Hat ambitious eine negative Konnotation

    Wenn ich in Deutsch von einem "ambitionierten Sportler" spreche, verstehe ich das als "ehrgeizig im positiven Sinne".

    Kann ich das direkt mit "ambitious" übersezten, oder schwingt bei "ambitious" der leicht negative touch mit, der ja dem deutschen "ehrgeizig" (Ehre und Geiz) innwohnt?

    VerfasserSportler11 Feb. 10, 22:54
    It depends. If the activity or profession is understood to involve ambition, then "ambitious" is generally understood as a good thing. An ambitious trial lawyer, an ambitious politician, an ambitious mob boss, yes, that would be said with admiration; an ambitious policeman, not a good thing.

    I don't quite understand what an ambitious athlete would be -- someone who wants to win awards or set records? It does seem somewhat negative to me, because I tend to associate sports more with things like the relentless pursuit of excellence or perfection, the drive to achieve, or the need to push the physical limits. It's almost like art in that regard; the drive behind it is supposed to be something other than social status or gain. Sure, some amount of ambition or showmanship enters into it, I guess (or everyone would be out tri-ing out of sight of the cameras), but it's not an intuitive connection. Attributes admired in sports include aggression, competitiveness, determination, and so on.
    #1VerfasserKatydid (US)11 Feb. 10, 23:48
    Danke, Katydid!

    Ich suche genau nach einem guten Adjektiv, um einen Athleten (oder einen Trainer) zu beschreiben, der "in pursuit of excellence" ist. Natürlich ist er in der Wettkampfsituation competitive und alles mögliche, aber wie nenne ich (BE/AE) diese Grundhaltung, mich von der 5. über die 4. und 3. Liga bis ganz nach oben hochzuarbeiten?
    #2VerfasserSportler12 Feb. 10, 18:00
    Wie wäre es mit determined? Du willst doch Zielstrebigkeit ausdrücken, gell?
    #3VerfasserRaundona12 Feb. 10, 18:11
    I think Katydid already mentioned it; I would say the word you're looking for is 'competitive.' (Which I've sometimes found it hard to translate E>D.) 'Determined' is also not bad, but to me that sounds less successful; you could lose a lot of competitions and still be determined to keep trying, but you wouldn't necessarily be getting better.

    I might like 'ambitious' better in predicate position, rather than before the noun: As an athlete, she's very ambitious sounds distinctly better to me than She's an ambitious athlete.

    Another option might be to use a phrase, like to aim high, to set one's sights/goals high, etc.

    #4Verfasser hm -- us (236141) 12 Feb. 10, 18:32
    Does it really have to be just one adjective? Can you give us a whole sentence - with context, target audience, and specific sport - to play with instead?

    I personally might like something like "skilled and aggressive athlete" for some sports, or "as a(n) [x type of athlete], she is an outstanding competitor."

    If the context is informal, you can say so-and-so is a "hard(-)core" skier/runner/whatever. That covers all of it - the determination, the drive, the dedication - but I wouldn't write it in a newspaper article or a CV. Again, context.
    #5VerfasserKatydid (US)12 Feb. 10, 18:44
    I just thought of another possibility: achiever, as in "she's a real achiever at the long jump."
    #6VerfasserKatydid (US)12 Feb. 10, 19:22
    wie nenne ich (BE/AE) diese Grundhaltung, mich von der 5. über die 4. und 3. Liga bis ganz nach oben hochzuarbeiten?

    There's one simple word for it, a word that contains all the other words already mentioned, like drive, determination, competitiveness, and so on, and that little word is ambition. There's nothing wrong with combining sports/athletics with ambition. As an example: Kobe Bryant is probably the most ambitious basketball player on the planet; granted, some don't like him, but it's not because of his ambition. It's because he's so damn talented and good, very few can actually compete with him.
    #7Verfasser dude (253248) 12 Feb. 10, 19:33
    But don't you think 'ambitious' often has other connotations? If someone tells me that Kobe Bryant is really ambitious, I have the feeling I'm likely to think that he wants to have a bigger job (like being a captain or a coach or an owner) or more pay, not necessarily (only) that he wants to win.

    Maybe it's especially in team sports that that seems a little out of place, because a player who's (personally) ambitious might actually be willing to succeed in his own career at the expense of his teammates -- he might do things like taking all the shots and being reluctant to pass the ball?

    #8Verfasser hm -- us (236141) 12 Feb. 10, 19:39
    I don't see it that way (which doesn't mean it can't be so). Most athletes don't really think about a job beyond what they're doing at the moment, nor would many have to worry about it if they're professioal basketball/football players, for instance. One year's salary for them is more than what most people make in a lifetime of working.

    In Kobe's example, his ambitions seem to concentrate on simply being the best that ever was, better even than Michael Jordan. Consequently, he has broken more records recently than anyone in his league, and I don't think he'll be satisfied until he's got more championship rings than MJ. I also don't think that - with an annual salary of $27 million (not counting his "side income" - commercials, shoes, etc.) he's too worried about his future after basketball.
    #9Verfasser dude (253248) 12 Feb. 10, 19:46
    Ich kann eigentlih nur bestaetigen, was hm-us und Katydid(US) hier bereits auszudruecken versuchten: "ambitious" hat zumindest in AE nicht eine ausschliesslich positive Konnotation. Und darum geht es doch eigentlich.

    Und das zeigt sich eben am Beispiel von Ausnahmeathleten innerhalb eines Teams wie Kobe Bryant oder LeBron James im Basketball, oder Peyton Manning und Tom Brady im Football, die von Sportkommentatoren nicht als "ambitious" bezeichnet werden, um zu beschreiben, dass sie goal oriented, determined, competitive, what-have-you sind. Aber sie koennten zB sehr "ambitious" bei ihren naechsten Vertragsverhandlung agieren oder ausserhalb des Spielbetriebes irgendwelchen Interessen nachgehen.
    #10Verfasser Rex (236185) 12 Feb. 10, 20:04
    Another possibility, if we're talking about inner qualities and not playing ability, is "motivated/motivation".

    Kobe Bryant, Peyton Manning, and others are highly motivated athletes.
    #11Verfasser Robert -- US (328606) 12 Feb. 10, 20:11
    Aber sie koennten zB sehr "ambitious" bei ihren naechsten Vertragsverhandlung agieren

    das machen die Sportler selbst doch gar nicht; dazu haben sie doch Agenten. Die allermeisten haben von solchen Rechtssachen null Ahnung. Ein 18-jaehriger LeBron James hat doch nicht seinen 100-Millionen-Dollar-Vertrag mit Nike selbst ausgehandelt!
    #12Verfasser dude (253248) 12 Feb. 10, 20:12
    das war ein 90 Mio USD Vertrag ...

    ob er das selbst aushandelt oder nicht, spielt dabei keine Rolle. Es geht darum, dass "ambitious" bei einem teamplayer nicht gerade als positive Eigenschaft angerechnet wird, im Gegenteil zu all den anderen genannten Adjektiven.
    #13Verfasser Rex (236185) 12 Feb. 10, 20:30
    der Meinung bin ich eben nicht. Auch ein Teamplayer kann im positiven Sinn "ambitious" sein.
    #14Verfasser dude (253248) 12 Feb. 10, 20:36
    ich schalte mal eben auf ESPN und schau mir SportsCenter an, mal hoeren, was die da so zum Besten geben
    #15Verfasser Rex (236185) 12 Feb. 10, 20:44
    Vielen Dank allen für die ausführliche Diskussion!!! Auch wenn es keine ganz eindeutige conclusio zu geben scheint, werde ich das Wort "ambition" mal riskieren :o)

    Allen Sportbegeisterten viel Spass beim Winterspiele schauen :o)
    #16VerfasserSportler13 Feb. 10, 13:59
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