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    originell/originär

    Quellen
    Ein Künstler muss nicht originell, sondern originär sein.
    Kommentar
    Suggestions?
    Verfasser escoville (237761) 09 Mär. 11, 08:12
    Kommentar
    #1Verfassertastymorsel (779578) 09 Mär. 11, 08:17
    Kommentar
    An artist should not be original but rather originous.
    #2Verfasser Todd (275243) 09 Mär. 11, 08:17
    Kommentar
    I guess I didn't understand your question, escoville. Are you looking for a way to make the whole sentence work?

    >?> An artist needn't one up, but should be a one-off.
    #3Verfassertastymorsel (779578) 09 Mär. 11, 08:21
    Kommentar
    My question was: can anyone think of a way of translating originär and originell that captures the meanings pithily and preferably in similar words.

    Todd has suggested a word which as far as I can see doesn't exist; tastymorsel's suggestion is interesting (and hits the nail on the head), but I fear is stylistically inappropriate.
    #4Verfasser escoville (237761) 09 Mär. 11, 08:46
    Quellen
    originell
    Adj.
    Aussprache:
    Herkunft: Latein
    1. ursprünglich, in seiner Art einmalig ⇓
    Anzeige schließen ein o. Künstler, Gelehrter
    ich ... habe ihren originellen Charakter ein wenig kennengelernt, wenigstens den der Kohlenbergleute — Kisch Rasender Reporter 15
    2. eigentümlich, durch seine besondere, oft komische Art auffallend
    Kommentar
    even though the first definition of "originell" given in the DWDS is the same as the only definition for "originär", namely "ursprünglich", I wouldn't have thought it still is its primary meaning. It's more like "funny, novel (as in novelty gadget)" etc.
    So something like "an artist shouldn't be fancy, but original" - but I don't know how you could keep the Gleichklang of the original.
    #5VerfasserSpinatwachtel (341764) 09 Mär. 11, 08:48
    Kommentar
    a stab in the dark

    An artist doesn't have to be unique, but his works should be ?
    #6Verfassermikefm (760309) 09 Mär. 11, 09:36
    Kommentar
    not necessarily original but the originator/(original) source?
    #7Verfassernoli (489500) 09 Mär. 11, 09:39
    VorschlagAn artist does not need to be ingenuinous, but he should be genuine!
    #8Verfasser Restitutus (765254) 09 Mär. 11, 09:42
    Kommentar
    Perhaps a mixture of "genuine" and "origin" to explain the contrast?
    #9Verfasser waltherwithh (554696) 09 Mär. 11, 09:42
    Kommentar
    but he should be genuine! appeals to me - not the first part... uniqueness comes into it somewhere - like does not have to be totally/completely original - just think of series of paintings ... like say Monet's garden are variations on a theme - all genuine Monets
    #10Verfassernoli (489500) 09 Mär. 11, 09:43
    Kommentar
    An artist doesn't have to be unique, but his works should be genuine ?
    #11Verfassermikefm (760309) 09 Mär. 11, 09:57
    Kommentar
    Nr. 8 hätte natürlich ingenious sein sollen und nicht "ingenuinous".

    Mea maxima culpa.



    #12Verfasser Restitutus (765254) 09 Mär. 11, 10:01
    Kommentar
    #11 ... as opposed to copies of someone else's work - inspiration is a different matter - original interpretation - think 10 students drawing the same model...
    #13Verfassernoli (489500) 09 Mär. 11, 10:03
    Kommentar
    again, I don't think the author meant "originell" as in original, but more as in "ein originelles Faschingskostüm" - i.e. witty, interesting, different. It just looks the same as "original".
    #14VerfasserSpinatwachtel (341764) 09 Mär. 11, 10:05
    Kommentar
    only btw. 1000 x Seerosen zu malen ist auch nicht gerade orginell... wenn vielleicht auch schön

    here is some hand-made stuff

    #15Verfassernoli (489500) 09 Mär. 11, 10:20
    Kommentar
    Another try escoville: An artist doesn't need to be distinguishable, but rather distinct(ive).
    #16Verfassertastymorsel (779578) 09 Mär. 11, 10:36
    Kommentar
    The German sense of "eigentümlich, durch seine besondere, oft komische Art auffallend" (#5) can come across in the English adjective, too; and it certainly does come across in the English noun: "he's an original".

    "originary" exists.

    "An artist needn't be original, but should be originary."
    "An artist needn't be original, but should be an origin."
    "An artist needn't be an original, but should be original."
    "An artist needn't be an original, but should be originary."
    "An artist needn't be an original, but should be an origin."

    etc.

    *yawn*

    Or "seminal"?

    "An artist needn't be original, but should be seminal."
    #17VerfasserPhillipp09 Mär. 11, 10:41
    Kommentar
    Ein Künstler muss nicht originell, sondern originär sein

    an artist need not be original but creative.

    yet another interpretation
    #18Verfassernoli (489500) 09 Mär. 11, 10:42
    Kommentar
    "An artist needn't be an original, but should be original."

    that's it!
    #19VerfasserSpinatwachtel (341764) 09 Mär. 11, 10:43
    Kommentar
    Das wage ich aber zu zweifeln.

    *edit*

    Höchstens so etwas wie:

    "An artist should be original not an original."
    #20VerfasserPhillipp09 Mär. 11, 10:44
    Kommentar
    you doubt my statement or the original (:-) statement?

    (psst, btw. it's bezweifeln in this phrase.)

    edit: a-ha, I see what you mean. I was just so relieved to see someone at last going into the right direction...
    yes, the translation in #20 is even better.
    #21VerfasserSpinatwachtel (341764) 09 Mär. 11, 10:47
    Kommentar
    Ich meinte, die (meine in #17 von Dir zitierte) Formulierung ist höchst unschön. (Danke fürs 'türchen.)

    *edit*

    Hätte eff5en sollen.
    #22VerfasserPhillipp09 Mär. 11, 10:49
    Kommentar
    #19-#22. I don't think that's really the meaning. Pardon me for saying. And I think the task it to try to use two similar words, instead of repeating "original". Again, pardon.
    #23Verfassertastymorsel (779578) 09 Mär. 11, 10:56
    Kommentar
    escoville is a highly experienced translator and will come to a good decision. We're just here to throw out a few ideas.
    #24VerfasserPhillipp09 Mär. 11, 10:59
    Kommentar
    #24 agree
    #25Verfassernoli (489500) 09 Mär. 11, 11:01
    Kommentar
    ... mein Versuch:

    An artist doesn't have to be ordinar(il)y pleasant but (to be) pleasantly extraordinary ? . . .
    #26VerfasserDaddy . . . (533448) 09 Mär. 11, 11:13
    Kommentar
    This thread seems to have grown while I was looking the other way. Thanks everyone.

    I decided that some of the suggestions, while "original", were original in the sense that the writer said an artist shouldn't be. (Actually I think his sentence committed the same error.) I said: "An artist should be original, but not in the sense of 'clever'", which is bland perhaps, but not "clever". I left readers to work out what other sense "original" might have, it's not difficult.

    Footnote on an amusing translation embarrassment: later in the text, the same author discusses the concept of "blackness". He adduces a poem by Wallace Stevens, which includes a line which he thought was translated into German thus:
    Die Farbe ihrer Schwärze...

    Unfortunately the poem is about peacocks, and the line in English is "The color of their tails" (Geddit?)
    #27Verfasser escoville (237761) 11 Mär. 11, 19:07
     
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