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  • Betreff


    Context: in zwei miteinander verbundenen Stadtpalais des 18. Jahrhunderts ...

    Would "townhouse" be appropriate here?
    Verfasser Julie_5 (672070) 06 Okt. 11, 15:06
    No, it would not. I take it you don't know what a town house is, or what a Stadtpalais is for that matter.
    #1Verfasser Bennett (395232) 06 Okt. 11, 15:09
    Bennett: When I think of the brownstones in New York and the townhouses of Georgetown I know they are not exactly like the "hôtels" of Paris or the "Stadtpalais" of German cities but felt that they come close.

    You evidently have a better idea which you might like to divulge unless it's a well-kept secret.

    Maybe "residence" or "palace"?
    #2Verfasser Julie_5 (672070) 06 Okt. 11, 15:17
    It seems your idea of a town house is much the same as mine, i.e. very different from a Stadtpalais. I recall having to translate some shitty text which briefly mentioned the concept of the Stadtpalais, from a Viennese perspective. I'm pretty sure I translated it as "city palace". I was not over the moon with this translation, but there you have it.
    #3Verfasser Bennett (395232) 06 Okt. 11, 15:25
    Thank you very much, Bennett. I'll use it too, even if you weren't over the moon with it! :-)
    #4Verfasser Julie_5 (672070) 06 Okt. 11, 15:33
    Most AE speakers don't understand residence to mean something palatial. But something like "a grand residence" might work.
    #5Verfasser Jurist (US) (804041) 06 Okt. 11, 17:09
    The problem here--for North Americans, at least--is that palaces are unknown this side of the Atlantic. Palaces were built in Europe by kings and princes in the Middle Ages, and in that period of history there were over here at best log cabins or perhaps colonial red brick buildings.

    The feudal rulers built palaces for themselves all over the place; some in the country, some in the city. The ones in German cities were sometimes called city palaces.

    Jurist is completely right, of course, that the term is all but unknown in English, but what can you do?

    So I think Bennet's suggestion (but not his tone) is about the best that can be done.
    #6Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 08 Apr. 13, 16:59
    there's the Iolani Palace in Hawaii, for instance (former home of Hawaiian royalty), so they're not entirely unknown here
    #7Verfasser dude (253248) 08 Apr. 13, 17:12
    The original OP is about 2 years old, but CM is looking for "Stadtpalais," too :-)

    Siehe auch: Stadtpalais
    #8Verfasser Carly-AE (237428) 08 Apr. 13, 17:14
    Right, there are many things in the US and Canada called palaces to evoke the bygone era (Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas). But I will hazard that none are called city palaces.
    #9Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 08 Apr. 13, 17:16
    In BE a palace is where the king or the bishop lives, and is usually very large. These Stadtpalais are more like an Italian palazzo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palazzo#Italy
    #10Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 08 Apr. 13, 17:16
    There's also Chapultepec Castle in Mexico City, where the Emperor Maximilian and his wife Charlotte used to live. I've been there and can say it's quite impressive.
    #11Verfasser dude (253248) 08 Apr. 13, 17:17
    Might as well link up to the other thread for future reference: Siehe auch: Stadtpalais
    #12Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 08 Apr. 13, 17:18
    My editing keeps getting interrupted.

    Bob, I'm not talking about some fake Vegas monstrosity. There are palaces and castles in North America that are quite real and legit.
    #13Verfasser dude (253248) 08 Apr. 13, 17:19
    The one in Hawaii is also a royal residence. Is that typical of US usage?
    #14Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 08 Apr. 13, 17:22
    Am I now an invisible castle ghost?? :-)
    #15Verfasser Carly-AE (237428) 08 Apr. 13, 17:24
    No, not typical as there is no royalty left anymore (other than imported royalty), so they are far and few in-between. I just wanted to rebuke Bob's statement that there aren't any palaces at all here.

    Edit: sorry, I might have misunderstood. Yes, I think "royal residence" is a typical moniker for such a building.
    #16Verfasser dude (253248) 08 Apr. 13, 17:24
    Sorry Carly, I look at the site on half a window, and since the new Leo format was introduced the actual posts now have to squeeze into a narrow, tall gap between the blocks on either side, so I have to scroll wildly to read anything and missed your post.

    As far as I can tell the Stadtpalais were not inhabited by royalty, just by show-offs, so I'm not so sure about using 'palace'.
    #17Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 08 Apr. 13, 17:29
    CM, Is this for a tourist brochure, or something along the lines of history?
    #18Verfasser Carly-AE (237428) 08 Apr. 13, 17:33
    There's also Hearst Castle. Arguably, William Randolph Hearst was royalty - of the fourth estate. :-)
    #19Verfasser dude (253248) 08 Apr. 13, 17:35
    The Stadtpalais Liechtenstein was built and occupied by royal family. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadtpalais_Liec...) Of course, many more examples could be found.

    In North America there is nothing comparable. There never was indigenous royalty here. The American and Canadian ruling elites built fine mansions, to be sure, but not palaces.

    The word palace originated in the period when European royal families lived in palaces.

    Today the term is applied to buildings in Europe and North America that were not built back then.

    Castles, incidentally, are older than palaces and were, originally, much less opulent.
    #20Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 08 Apr. 13, 18:01
    That may be true, but places like Hearst Castle are, in fact, not really castles in the old-fashioned sense, they are palaces boasting lots of modern amenities. I don't think medieval castles had swimming pools, for instance (unless you count the moat).
    #21Verfasser dude (253248) 08 Apr. 13, 18:05
    Actually, the word palace has its roots in ancient Rome.

    My only point here is that city palace is a good translation of "Stadtpalais" until a better one comes along.
    #22Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 08 Apr. 13, 18:07
    I have the honour (or misfortune, depending on your point of view) of working in a Stadtpalais in Vienna. To my knowledge, every Stadtpalais has what is called a Bel Etage; I think the usual term in English is piano nobile. The decor of such grand rooms for receiving important guests tends to be very opulent.

    I stick to my original suggestion of "city palace".

    And for what it's worth, I don't fucking like Bob's tone.
    #23Verfasser Bennett (395232) 11 Apr. 13, 13:14
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