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    Die Revolutionen im arabischen Raum stehen selbstverständlich zu allererst für sich und sind der Beginn eines sehr mühsamen Prozesses hin zu mehr Partizipation und Selbstbestimmung im jeweiligen Land.
    What exactly does the first part of this sentence mean?
    Verfasserroaring_40s (731330) 03 Mai 12, 11:20
    The revolutions in Arabian areas speak above all things for themselves and are the beginning of a tedious process towards greater participation and self-determination in each respective country.
    #1Verfasser Todd (275243) 03 Mai 12, 11:23
    First of all, the revolutions in Arabia have to be regarded as a singular phenomenon.
    #2Verfasser maxxpf (361343) 03 Mai 12, 11:46
    Have to be regarded as a phenomenon for/in themselves. 'Singular'as in 'single', not 'bizarre'.
    #3Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 03 Mai 12, 12:07
    ... in the Arab world ... (and then like #3)

    I'd say here; there's the Arabian peninsula, but I don't think one would say "Arabian areas." Or "in Arabia" for that matter, which would mean Saudi Arabia, IMO, or refer to ancient Arabia/Araby.
    #4Verfasser dude (253248) 03 Mai 12, 14:06
    I don't see a problem with the term "arabian areas" as a general one. Arabian cultures are not confined to the Arabian Peninsula. Good God, this "Arab Spring" we are all talking about started in Egypt followed by Libya.

    Und was, bitteschön, ist der grosse Unterschied zwischen etwas, was "speaks for itself" und etwas, was "as a singular phenomenon" betrachtet werden muss??
    #5Verfasser Todd (275243) 03 Mai 12, 21:01
    Maybe you don't see a difference, Todd, but there is one:

    Definition of ARABIAN
    1: a native or inhabitant of Arabia
    2: arabian horse

    Definition of ARABIA
    peninsula SW Asia ab 1200 miles (1930 kilometers) long & 1300 miles (2090 kilometers) wide including Saudi Arabia, Yemen, & Persian Gulf States; in early times divided into Arabia Pe·traea “Rocky Arabia” (the NW part), Arabia De·ser·ta “Desert Arabia” (the N part), & Arabia Fe·lix “Fertile Arabia” (the main part)
    Variants of ARABIA
    Ara·bia or Arabian Peninsula

    Edit: quite clearly, the Arab world is bigger than that.

    Edit II: Good God, this "Arab Spring" we are all talking about started in Egypt followed by Libya.
    Notice that it's not called the "Arabian Spring." And if memory serves me right, I think it all started in Tunisia.
    #6Verfasser dude (253248) 03 Mai 12, 21:04
    Great, thanks. I had already opted for the 'Arab world' and have decided to go with 'speak for themselves'.

    Thanks again
    #7Verfasserroaring_40s (731330) 04 Mai 12, 08:53
    something speaks for itself
    the implications of something are so clear that no supporting evidence is needed: the figures speak for themselves

    If something speaks for itself, it is clear and needs no further explanation
    The school's excellent record speaks for itself.
    'X speaks for itself' means that X is self-explanatory. It doesn't mean that X is regarded as a separate, unique phenomenon.
    #8Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 04 Mai 12, 09:04
    Just my opinion, but "speak for themselves" is not a fit for me.

    I also think #3, and actually #2, are good.

    Another idea just for thoughts: The revolutions in the Arab region are of course primarily for their own sake, and they ...
    #9Verfassercryme (795004) 04 Mai 12, 09:07
    I agree that "speak for themselves" isn't right here.

    #3 works. #2 afaic doesn't, nor, sorry, does "for their own sake". Another option as alternative to #3 would be e.g.

    " ... must be considered first and foremost in their own right, ... ."
    #10VerfasserPhillipp04 Mai 12, 09:35
    Doesn't "for their own sake" mean "in their own right", Phillipp?
    #11Verfassercryme (795004) 04 Mai 12, 09:46
    I don't think it does, no, not in its strict sense. There's a more colloquial sense, perhaps, where it might fit as far as meaning is concerned, but I think the register is then wrong. Just my view.
    #12VerfasserPhillipp04 Mai 12, 09:50
    I agree. 'Speak for themselves' is not the right choice. 'In their own right' sounds good. Must send this translation off now, so will have to choose one of the many options.

    Very grateful to all of you.
    #13Verfasserroaring_40s (731330) 04 Mai 12, 10:26
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