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    Englisch gesucht

    Wir sind nie zu alt für Veränderungen, ...nur zu bequem :-)

    Betreff

    Wir sind nie zu alt für Veränderungen, ...nur zu bequem :-)

    Quellen
    We are never to old for chenges, ...only to comfortable ?
    Verfasser Andrea66 (603455) 31 Jul. 14, 17:59
    Kommentar
    for a change/changes
    #1Verfasser no me bré (700807) 31 Jul. 14, 18:02
    Kommentar
    Siehe auch: bequem im Sinne von "faul" - #5

    siehe #5 und insbesondere #14 - "comfortable" passt hier überhaupt nicht, und LEO hat mE keine passende Übersetzung für "bequem" im Sinne von "zu faul" anzubieten.
    #2Verfasser penguin (236245) 31 Jul. 14, 18:03
    Kommentar
    We are never too old for changes,... just too comfortable.

    Meiner Meinung nach... das Wort "comfortable" passt gut hier. Aber um klarer zu sein, könnte man sagen, "...just too comfortable with the way things are."
    #3Verfasser SCLehrerin (1017449) 31 Jul. 14, 18:21
    Kommentar
    We're never too old for changes, only too settled.
    ... too used to the status quo.

    evtl.
    #4Verfasser dude (253248) 31 Jul. 14, 18:35
    Kommentar
    "settled" passt noch besser als "lazy"
    oder "set in our ways"
    #5Verfasser penguin (236245) 31 Jul. 14, 20:39
    Kommentar
    IMO, the best version is SCLehrerin's (#3), though I would make one amendment:

    We are never too old for change,... just too comfortable.

    (My amendment: I think "change" is better than its plural.)
    #6VerfasserHappyWarrior (964133) 31 Jul. 14, 21:19
    Kommentar
    Did you actually read the entire thread, HappyWarrior?

    Edit: I would actually change the first part (now that I look at it) to "... never too old to change ..."
    #7Verfasser dude (253248) 31 Jul. 14, 21:30
    Kommentar
    Did you actually read the entire thread, HappyWarrior?

    Yes. Why do you ask?
    #8VerfasserHappyWarrior (964133) 31 Jul. 14, 21:51
    Kommentar
    Actually not that important.
    #9Verfasser dude (253248) 31 Jul. 14, 21:55
    Kommentar
    Re (prior version of) #9.
    See what I'm getting at?

    Somewhat. But I see nothing in my comments that should make anyone anxious, and nothing for which I would need to apologize.

    I saw the objection in #2 and a correct response in #3--"Meiner Meinung nach... das Wort 'comfortable' passt gut hier"--and I expressed my support for that particular statement. (Then I suggested an amendment.)
    #10VerfasserHappyWarrior (964133) 31 Jul. 14, 22:11
    Kommentar
    I didn't say you should apologize. Nor did I criticize you in any way. I simply pointed out that the OP him/herself came up with ...

    Forget it.
    #11Verfasser dude (253248) 31 Jul. 14, 22:57
    Kommentar
    I simply pointed out that the OP him/herself came up with ...

    Yes, and then a discussion ensued in which some of the proposals veered away from the OP's proposal. I thought it would be appropriate to give my opinion about the best way to say it.
    #12VerfasserHappyWarrior (964133) 31 Jul. 14, 23:06
    Kommentar
    Penguin should explain why comfortable is not suitable here. It seems fine to me.

    We are never too old to change, we just get too comfortable.

    Of course, settled or set in our ways are also possibilities, but comfortable is by far the closest to "bequem."
    #13Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 31 Jul. 14, 23:31
    Kommentar
    because "bequem" means "too lazy to change", "too settled", "too set in one's ways" here.

    Please read the discussion I linked in #2 (and in particular post #14 there), bearing in mind Phillipp is British.

    And now read the definitions here: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/comfortable

    It does not mean comfortable in this particular context.
    #14Verfasser penguin (236245) 31 Jul. 14, 23:33
    Kommentar
    How do you know it does not mean comfortable in this context? What is the context?

    By the way, it's worth noting that we are never too old for change is not the same thing as we are never too old to change. Might be good to know which Andrea means.
    #15Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 01 Aug. 14, 00:15
    Kommentar
    I think you might not have fully understood the connotations of "bequem" here.
    The context can be found in the word "zu": "zu bequem für etwas sein" (OP) is a different "bequem" from "es sich bequem machen".

    Duden makes the difference as follows:

    bequem (Adjektiv)
    1. a. angenehm, keinerlei Beschwerden oder Missbehagen verursachend
    b. keine Anstrengung verursachend, ohne Mühe benutzbar o. Ä.
    2. leicht, mühelos
    3. (abwertend) jeder Anstrengung abgeneigt, träge
    http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/bequem

    DWDS explains it like this:
    bequem (Adjektiv)

    1 keine Mühe, Anstrengung, keinen Zwang verursachend
    a behaglich
    ein bequemer Stuhl, Sessel, ein bequemes Plätzchen, Bett
    zwanglos
    bequem sitzen, liegen
    b nicht einengend
    bequeme Schuhe
    ohne Mühe zu benutzen
    eine bequeme Treppe
    c angenehm
    eine bequeme Reise
    d sich sein Brot bequem verdienen (ohne große Anstrengung)
    keine Unannehmlichkeiten bereitend
    eine bequeme Stellung
    e umgangssprachlich gut, ohne Mühe adverbiell
    ich konnte alles bequem beobachten

    2 träge
    ein bequemer Mensch
    http://dwds.de/?qu=bequem

    The last meaning (in bold) is not comfortable but lazy.
    #16Verfasser penguin (236245) 01 Aug. 14, 07:21
    Kommentar
    It's not easy to find a one-word translation for "bequem" in this context IMO; but it certainly isn't "comfortable".
    "lethargic" is close, but refers more to a passing condition; "bequem" refers to someone's "Verhalten" I'd say; their characteristics.
    Maybe “…but we can’t be bothered.”
    #17Verfassermikefm (760309) 01 Aug. 14, 08:24
    Kommentar
    @16
    Ich denke ...
    1. nicht, dass das 'zu' hier eine Rolle spielt, es passt zu beiden Bedeutungen.
    2. dass auch bei Bedeutung 3 die ersten beiden Bedeugunen meist mitschwingen: faul aus einer bequemen Situation heraus.
    3. die Bedeutung 'faul' ist hier auch in 'comfortable' enthalten. (hier lass ich mich gerne von den nS eines Andern überzeugen)

    Recht eindeutig sehe ich die Formulierung "sind uns zu bequem". Hier überwiegt m.E. die Faulheit.
    #18Verfasser wor (335727) 01 Aug. 14, 08:31
    Kommentar
    I support penguin and mikefm. We have to distinguish between "bequem" as in

    (1) "ich sitze bequem, der Sessel ist bequem..."
    (2) "jemand ist zu bequem, etwas zu tun"

    Two quite different animals. The second one - and this seems to be the context here - is not comfortable, as far as I can say as a non-native English speaker. I agree with mikefm in #17 that "lethargic" comes close, but is still not 100% spot-on.
    #19Verfasser Jesse_Pinkman (991550) 01 Aug. 14, 09:04
    Kommentar
    ... just feeling lazy.
    #20Verfasserblowdown (811990) 01 Aug. 14, 09:52
    Kommentar
    wir sind uns zu bequem?
    Wer sagt das denn?

    #18 1., 2. und 3. kann ich nicht zustimmen.
    #21Verfasser penguin (236245) 01 Aug. 14, 10:49
    Kommentar
    I am no authority on the German word "bequem." However, I can attest that--at least in AE--the use of "comfortable" is very often heard in precisely such formulations as:

    We are never too old for change, just too comfortable.

    We are never too old to change, we just get too comfortable.


    When referring to one's unwillingness to change (or to accept change), being "too comfortable" is given as a standard reason. Being "too comfortable" to change is a regular expression.
    #22VerfasserHappyWarrior (964133) 01 Aug. 14, 17:00
    Vorschlagcomplacent
    Kommentar
    I'll just throw another suggestion into the ring:

    We're never too old for change, just too complacent.
    #23Verfasser tomtom[uk] (762098) 01 Aug. 14, 17:34
    Kommentar
    None of this really matters IMO unless it's "too old to change" because changes come whether we like them or not, and they seem to come with increasing speed and they don't care how old we are. The question is, are we too settled/comfortable/whatever to change along with the times?
    #24Verfasser dude (253248) 01 Aug. 14, 17:38
    Kommentar
    @HappyWarrior, #22: "We are never too old for change, just too comfortable."

    OK, but does this mean "We are comfortable = at ease or happy with the way things are?" Then this is not what is meant with "bequem" in this context.

    Or does it mean: "We are too lazy to be bothered." Then it is. As in the famous quote by Homer Simpson: "If something's hard to do, it ain't worth doing."
    #25Verfasser Jesse_Pinkman (991550) 01 Aug. 14, 19:02
    Kommentar
    Jesse has a point I'd say; having not lived in the UK for many year I have to be careful about judging what's BE or not today, but Happy's two examples in #22 sound a little unusual to me. I would say someone is "comfortably off" (has a good income) though. And as Jesse says "bequem" here means something different; for example "...can’t be bothered." (#17).
    #26Verfassermikefm (760309) 01 Aug. 14, 19:22
    Kommentar
    Jesse:

    In AE, "too comfortable to [or for] change" is used in both of the meanings you give in #25.

    It can mean "We are comfortable = at ease or happy with the way things are." And it can mean "We are too lazy to be bothered."


    BTW, I see only a rather fine line between those two meanings.
    #27VerfasserHappyWarrior (964133) 01 Aug. 14, 19:24
    Kommentar
    Comfortable is not a difficult concept. It is adequately defined in the dictionary: "a: free from vexation or doubt (comfortable assumptions); b: free from stress or tension (a comfortable routine)."

    One gets comfortable with a certain way of life and is loath to change, that's all. No need to tie ourselves in knots over the meaning of the English word.

    And the Duden description of "bequem" matches this closely: "angenehm, keinerlei Beschwerden oder Missbehagen verursachend."

    However, "bequem" can also mean "(abwertend) jeder Anstrengung abgeneigt, träge," which is not part of the meaning of comfortable.

    Penguin says that, in the sentence we're dealing with, it has to mean the latter, can't mean the former. Not all Germans here agree with that, so we're left without a conclusion.

    But either way, the solution is not difficult. It's either comfortable or lazy.
    #28Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 01 Aug. 14, 19:29
    Kommentar
    Although "lazy" is not really wrong, it doesn't fit my impression of how "bequem" is used; i.e. not generally quite the same as lazy/faul.
    #29Verfassermikefm (760309) 01 Aug. 14, 19:37
    Kommentar
    @HappyWarrior, #27: BTW, I see only a rather fine line between those two meanings.

    I don't, in my opinion it's a rather distinct line - see Bob's subsequent quote from Duden, which perfectly reflects what I mean:

    And the Duden description of "bequem" matches this closely: "angenehm, keinerlei Beschwerden oder Missbehagen verursachend."

    However, "bequem" can also mean "(abwertend) jeder Anstrengung abgeneigt, träge," which is not part of the meaning of comfortable.
    #30Verfasser Jesse_Pinkman (991550) 01 Aug. 14, 19:45
    Kommentar
    Re #30.
    I don't, in my opinion it's a rather distinct line 

    That's fine; I respect your opinion. The fact remains, however, that (as discussed in #27):

    In AE, "too comfortable to [or for] change" is used for both of the meanings you give in #25.

    #31VerfasserHappyWarrior (964133) 01 Aug. 14, 20:20
    Kommentar
    Sure, I was not going to contest that, How could I, not being a native English speaker. I'm just saying that "bequem" has those two really different flavours, and of course I accept that they can both be translated as "comfortable".

    And thus I now know something I didn't when this thread was created. :-)
    #32Verfasser Jesse_Pinkman (991550) 01 Aug. 14, 21:22
    Kommentar
    Möglicherweise verwendet AE eine etwas andere Metapher als D für denselben Sachverhalt. Man fühlt sich gut aufgehoben, da, wo man ist: comfortable. Im Deutschen ist "zu bequem" völlig eindeutig: Man hat keinerlei Motivation, die Situation zu verändern, weil dazu eine Anstrengung nötig wäre. Das bezieht sich also nicht auf die Situation (die bequem, comfortable sein kann), sondern auf die Person, die motiviert, flexibel oder eben auch bequem (lazy, complacent) sein kann.

    Wie Bob gesagt hat: However, "bequem" can also mean "(abwertend) jeder Anstrengung abgeneigt, träge," which is not part of the meaning of comfortable.

    Diese Bedeutung ist hier zweifelsfrei gemeint, jede deutsche Leserin, jeder deutsche Leser dieser Formulierung würde das einwandfrei so verstehen. In diesem Zusammenhang bedeutet "bequem" einfach nicht "comfortable", da stimme ich penguin ganz und gar zu. Selbst dann, wenn die idiomatische Formulierung im Englischen "comfortable" enthält (was bezweifelt worden ist, z.B. #26).

    The German phrase says that we are too lazy to move (to adapt), it doesn't say that we are comfortable where we are. We may be in a most uncomfortable position but still unwilling ("zu bequem") to get out of it.
    #33Verfasser sebastianW (382026) 02 Aug. 14, 03:44
    Kommentar
    #33: Genau meine Meinung. Ich glaube, so ist es unter Deutschen unstrittig.

    Die Diskussion geht aus meiner Sicht nur noch darum, ob diese zweite Bedeutung von "bequem", die Du in Deinem letzten Absatz noch einmal schön herausgearbeitet hast, von den English NS so verstanden wurde und nach deren Meinung, die dann natürlich ausschlaggebend wäre, durch "comfortable" abgedeckt ist.
    #34Verfasser Jesse_Pinkman (991550) 02 Aug. 14, 07:07
    Kommentar
    Deinem letzten Absatz noch einmal schön herausgearbeitet hast, von den English NS so verstanden wurde und  

    This ENS understood it to mean that; i.e. even in a quite unpleasant situation one hasn't the energy to attempt to change things; (lazy, lethargic, can't be bothered e.g.) I would not use "comfortable" myself, but that may be a AE/BE difference.

    "Take things too easy/easily" is another possibility I think.
    #35Verfassermikefm (760309) 02 Aug. 14, 10:29
    Kommentar
    I believe what we're left with then is lazy. Not a single other suggestion made so far in this thread or the other one comes even close.
    #36Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 02 Aug. 14, 13:33
    Kommentar
    I believe what we're left with then is lazy. Not a single other suggestion made so far in this thread or the other one comes even close.
    #37Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 02 Aug. 14, 13:33
    Kommentar
    Sorry for the duplication.

    The only other suggestion that might fit is lethargic, since it translates "träge."

    (Duden faul: "abgeneigt zu arbeiten, sich zu bewegen, sich anzustrengen; nicht gern tätig; bequem, träge")
    #38Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 02 Aug. 14, 13:33
    Kommentar
    Bob, although "lazy" certainly is not wrong (#29), I still tend to think there is no single-word that fits "bequem" 100% in this particular context.
    #39Verfassermikefm (760309) 02 Aug. 14, 14:00
    Kommentar
    #37: Agree with you.
    I think this point is moot now. The term "comfortable" is by no means equivalent to the German "nur zu bequem" as referred to in the given context. (see also my #20)
    #40Verfasserblowdown (811990) 02 Aug. 14, 14:00
    Kommentar
    Maybe it's nit-picking, but I still think "lazy" is a wee bit too strong in this context - never mind. :-)
    #41Verfassermikefm (760309) 02 Aug. 14, 14:08
    Kommentar
    Besteht das Problem nicht darin, dass bei bequem im Sinne von "träge" oder "faul", comfortable doch mitschwingt?
    #42Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 02 Aug. 14, 14:15
    Kommentar
    Yes, I think maybe that's what makes it difficult; hence my phrase suggestions; "can't be bothered"; "take things too easy/easily" e.g.
    #43Verfassermikefm (760309) 02 Aug. 14, 14:25
    Kommentar
    #42: As if suffering lengthy threads were not enough, you'll probably end up accepting this as a Hobson's choice, which presumably might be an added penalty to some people.
    #44Verfasserblowdown (811990) 02 Aug. 14, 14:38
    Kommentar
    No one holds a gun to anyone's head. If you don't like long discussions, why participate?

    Sometimes it takes a while to figure something out.
    #45Verfasser Bob C. (254583) 03 Aug. 14, 12:47
    Kommentar
    From real life: I just noticed I got my polo shirt on inside out ( links herum). But I'm too bequem to go to the restroom and change it. Greetings from The Nashville, Beijing.
    #46Verfasser Jesse_Pinkman (991550) 03 Aug. 14, 16:19
    Kommentar
    I'm not too old to change, I just can't be bothered.

    or, I'm too set in my ways.
    #47Verfasser Mike - US (919790) 03 Aug. 14, 17:00
     
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