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  • Betreff

    gammon

    [Soziol.][Sl.][Substantiv][Subst.][Brit.]
    Quellen
    Anscheinend ist das eine neue, und wie ich es verstehe, beleidigende Bezeichnung für "Brexiters".

    Für weiteren Kontext hier ein Auszug aus einem bitterbösen Facebook-Post über Tommy Robinson:

    "I see you, Tommy Robinson.
    I see you doing your best reporter impression to the camera, your smartest big boy jacket on, doing your level best to keep facade-breaking snarl out of your voice. I see your baffled little face as you’re approached by the police, angrily protesting that you had no idea this would happen, despite the fact the exact same thing has happened to you before. This is a shit version of Groundhog Day, isn’t it? Bill Murray learned how to play piano and sculpt with ice and you’ve not even learned how to avoid breaking a law that’s already landed you in trouble.

    How close you came to a full reinvention as well. Appointing yourself as the king of free speech (unless it comes from an imam you don’t like, obvs) has obviously convinced you that your propagandising puts you above reproach, despite it being calmly explained to you last time that prejudicing another trial would land you in the nick. The double standards and lack of self-awareness among your loyalists is amazing - everyone has the right to say whatever they like to the snowflake libtard loony lefty Mossy-lovers until someone gets called a gammon, and then it’s time to clutch your Union Jack handbag to your chest and cry about hate speech. You coronated yourself as the only champion standing against those coming over here with no respect for our laws, not like you, being born over here with no respect for our laws. Well that worked out well, didn’t it?"
    Kommentar
    Was genau bedeutet "gammon" in diesem Zusammenhang und wieso "gammon"? Weil es für "Brexiters" verwendet wird, die ja auch gern gleichzeitig Moslem-Hasser sind?

    Bin für jeden Hinweis dankbar ;-)
    Verfasser B.L.Z. Bubb (601295) 04 Jun. 18, 08:34
    Quellen
    Is ‘gammon’ racist or just stupid?

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/18...

    Is it offensive to call ruddy-faced middle-aged Tories 'gammons'?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/shortcut...
    Kommentar
    Quite a few gammon articles on the Guardian over the last few weeks. Basically, people who look like gammons -- slightly pinkish, chubby, bit greasy -- middle-aged men who voted Brexit/UKIP, basically. I don't how it started or who by; all the articles I've seen have been along the lines of 'is it right to label a whole people group porcine based on their appearance?'
    #1Verfasser papousek (343122) 04 Jun. 18, 08:41
    Kommentar
    Ah, das erklärt einiges - danke!
    #2Verfasser B.L.Z. Bubb (601295) 04 Jun. 18, 08:44
    Kommentar
    lmao
    #3Verfasser whynotme (913760) 04 Jun. 18, 10:20
    Kommentar
    ist "coronate" überhaupt ein Wort, oder meint er "crown"?
    #4Verfasser Spinatwachtel (341764) 04 Jun. 18, 10:39
    Kommentar
    @4 Verstehe Deine Frage nicht: to coronate == to crown
    #5Verfasser wor (335727) 04 Jun. 18, 11:07
    Quellen
    "Sorry, no search result for coronate."
    Kommentar
    Ich kenne nur coronation, the event when someone is crowned king or queen.
    Ist "coronate" da eine legitime back-formation?
    #6Verfasser Spinatwachtel (341764) 04 Jun. 18, 11:23
    Kommentar
    re #6: Vgl. https://www.onelook.com/?w=coronate&ls=a
    "The Oxford English Dictionary does indeed include “coronate” as a verb meaning to crown, but it labels the usage rare. "
    Dort auch eine ausführliche Diskussion Deiner Frage.
    #7Verfasser lingua franca (48253) 04 Jun. 18, 11:36
    Kommentar
    super, vielen Dank.
    #8Verfasser Spinatwachtel (341764) 04 Jun. 18, 11:44
    Kommentar
    Me and my (English speaking) family had this same discussion when the card "Elizabeth I was coronated" came up in a board game we were playing last week. None of us could believe it existed, we assumed it was a mistranslation from the French (French board game)
    #9Verfasser papousek (343122) 04 Jun. 18, 11:54
    Quellen
    Why your social media is covered in gammon
    Social media is an often-overwhelming swirl of opposing opinions and arguments.
    However, certain phrases periodically cut through the noise and enter into the online vocabulary.
    Perhaps surprisingly, "gammon" has become a popular term on social media to describe the rosy complexion of outraged middle-aged people in the UK. (...)
    The term has grown since the Brexit referendum and 2017 general  election, and has been seen by some as a response by the left to the  term "snowflake" to describe easily offended liberal millennials. The gammon-snowflake clash seems to map the divisions between younger Remain voters and older people who supported Brexit.  The pork-based insult has gained renewed prominence after an article in the Times newspaper  reported some were saying it was a racial slur used by those supporting  Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to attack middle-aged men.  
    "Gammon" has been tweeted over 40,000 times in the past 24 hours.
    Where did it come from?
    The term was first used as an insult by viewers of the BBC's Question Time programme in 2016. (...)
    However, "gammon" gained popularity after a collage of contributors to Question Time - each middle-aged, white and male - was shared along with the phrase "Great Wall of Gammon" in 2017.
    Since then, the term has often been used in online discussion as a derogatory term for those supporting Brexit.
    Is it racist?
    DUP MP Emma Little Pengelly tweeted she was "appalled" by the term, which she suggests is "based on skin colour and age". (...)
    However, journalist Adam Bienkov wrote that there was no "disadvantage to being an angry old man with pink cheeks". (...)
    Many others online drew a comparison between those offended by the term "gammon", and their derision of "snowflakes" as easily offended. (...)

    Corbynites’ insults will only hurt themselves
    Terms of abuse such as ‘gammon’ and ‘centrist dad’ keep the activists energised but will drive away swathes of voters
    Gammon was last seen on dining tables in the 1970s, often crowned with a slice of withered pineapple. Now it’s back on the menu as the insult of choice among the Corbynite left — and it provides a key insight into the psychology of the Labour leader’s outriders.
    Activists hurl the term at white, puffy, pink-cheeked, angry, middle-aged men who they think resemble the outdated dish. You know the type, the Corbynites wink: the blokes ranting about Brexit and Russia on Question Time. People who rate Jim Davidson and laugh at jokes about shirtlifters. Boorish petrolheads who worship Jeremy Clarkson. (...)

    This is why the word 'gammon' is cooking up trouble in the UK
    The insult has gained prominence after an article reported some were saying it was a racial slur used by those supporting Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn to attack middle-aged men.
    YOU MIGHT THINK of gammon as the bottom piece of a side of bacon, but the word has a new context in the UK.
    The term ‘gammon’ is being used to describe the complexion of angry middle-aged white people.
    The bacon-based insult was popularised by younger voters during the 2017 UK general election to describe a red-faced white male, usually ranting about Brexit and immigrants.
    Gammon has since taken over the UK press, with analysis pieces appearing in most publications. (...)
    A recent article in The Times UK claims that it is supporters of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn using the term to attack middle-aged men. 
    The phrase is seen as a response by the left to the term ‘snowflake’, which describes an millennial who’s easily offended. 
    The gammon and snowflake clash has highlighted the division that still remains between the generations following the Brexit vote. 
    According to the BBC, gammon gained momentum as an insult in 2017, when a Twitter user posted a collage of contributors to the programme Question Time, with the phrase ‘Great Wall of Gammon’. (...)
    Since then many people in the UK have spoken out against the term, describing it as derogatory and even racist towards older white people.
    Democratic Unionist Party MP Emma Little-Pengelly has backed the claims of racism, saying she was appalled by the used of the word. (...)
    Columnist for the Guardian, Owen Jones, recently wrote that affluent white men are not a race and that white people mocking other white people over their skin colour is not racism.     
    "That right wingers are now pushing the use of the word ‘gammon’ as racism is an age-old example of how the privileged crave a sense of persecution, that they can target genuinely oppressed minorities while claiming they are the real victims.” 
    This opinion has been echoed by on social media, with many make light of the outrage. (...)
    The debate surrounding the term gammon might seem benign but in a piece published today by Ben Davis, he explains how this debate is an insight into how online conversations are going. 
    As Davis coined the term gammon, we will leave the last word to him.     
    "Ultimately, though, what started out as a daft meme has become just another weapon in Twitter’s never-ending culture war. The right will call you “cucks”, the left will call you “gammons”, nothing will change and I will sit back and realise that even though I have had seven books published, my biggest impact on popular culture is noticing that some blokes looked like salty meat. I think I need another drink.”

    Should we laugh along with the gammon people?
    Racist, sexist, ageist or just funny? Zoe Williams on the insult du jour
    The controversy over the insult ‘gammon’ has nothing to do with what it means: everyone knows what it means. Men the colour of ham, who hold a variety of nostalgic, socially conservative views, often a bit brutishly expressed.
    Their natural habitat is the audience of Question Time, and their Twitter handles more often than not contain the flag of St George. They love finality and telling people what’s what. ‘End. Of’ is their favourite winning manoeuvre. The ‘centrist dad’ is their socially liberal counterpart: also a man, also middle-aged, also anti-Corbyn, also utterly convinced that his way is the only way. But the centrist dad is more likely to have a beard, a bike as well as a car (the gammon wouldn’t be seen dead on a bike), and less likely to be the colour of, well, gammon. Anyway, that much – by anyone who has been at all exercised about the term, in either direction – is already agreed. The question, apparently spurred by the commentator and broadcaster Aaron Bastani calling the MP Mike Gapes “King Gammon of the Gammoni”, is just how insulting it is. Obviously everyone says mean things about each other – the pro-Corbyn lot are frequently called idiots and fanatics – but there are depths that pollute the political sphere. Racism; classism; misogyny; violence; these would all be toxic to an already pretty smoggy discursive environment.
    Matt Zarb-Cousin, the leading expert on gammons (he wrote the first piece about it, in Huck magazine), explained succinctly that it couldn’t be racist because nobody was born a gammon; rather, you become one through a series of lifestyle choices. When he says this, it’s an ironic repurposing to mean they chose to be boorish bigots, every day, over a number of years. He’s not making a physical value-judgment, the way people do about the obese. Ben Davis, who coined the term, said he was talking about middle-class, golf-club types, and worried it was being repurposed to attack working class men. The word’s detractors do seem to think it classist (or sometimes ageist) because, variously, gammon is a working class dish, now rarely to be found on menus, and – hilariously – nobody’s calling anyone prosciutto. These people appear never to have been in a pub. Plainly, you can be a middle or working or upper class gammon, but you do have to be male, so ‘sexist against men’ is probably the worst you could level at it. The problem is, it’s very funny, when someone is the colour of processed pork, to remark upon it. It always has been – when Caitlin Moran said David Cameron looked like C3PO made of ham, it was possibly the funniest thing anyone had ever said. It is a ring-the-doorbell-and-run-away burst of mischief. If you object you just make yourself look – cruel irony! – more gammony.

    Meet the older Brexit supporters of Grimsby who are struggling to comprehend their new gammon nickname
    It's an insult used to describe “white, puffy, pink-cheeked, angry, middle-aged” or elderly Brexit voters.
    The term 'Gammon', coined by those on the Left opposed to Brexit, has peaked in popularity over the past few days - and attracted fury from Brexiteers across the country.
    Some think it is a racial slur attacking the rosy complexion of outraged men of a certain age.
    Others think it is a justified response to the 'snowflake' name used against millennials said to struggle with opposing opinions to their own.
    But for the vast majority of older, male Brexit supporters in Grimsby, they are simply dumbfounded by their new nickname.

    Sowie das Urban Dictionary:(von Feb 2018):
    Gammon
    (Noun/mass noun): A term used to describe a particular type of Brexit-voting, middle-aged white male, whose meat-faced complexion suggests they are perilously close to a stroke. 
    The term 'gammon' is linked to the unhealthy pink skin tone of such stout yeomen, probably because of high blood pressure caused by decades of 'PC gone mad', being defeated in arguments about the non-existent merits of Brexit and women getting the vote. 
    Gammon often make their appearance on BBC's Question Time jabbing their porcine fingers at the camera while demanding immediate nuclear strikes against Remain-voting areas, people who eat vegetables and/or cyclists.
    When gammon appears en masse it is often referred to as a "wall of gammon".
    Gammon
    Middle aged red-faced white male, usually ranting about Brexit, immigrants and political correctness gone mad. First seen in wild in June 2017 edition of BBC Question Time from York. Immortalized in the hashtag #wallofgammon

    Kommentar
    Noch einige Pressestimmen zur Ausgangsfrage
    #10Verfasser lingua franca (48253) 04 Jun. 18, 14:50
    Kommentar
    #11Verfasser Wandrer (1327185) 18 Apr. 21, 22:20
    Kommentar
    Question from an AE speaker, where in my experience 'gammon' is unknown outside of, say, Shakespeare:

    Do BE speakers not say 'ham'? Or what's the difference, if any, between gammon and ham?

    Is 'gammon' a particular subset of ham, a type or form of ham, or are the two words just interchangeable? Could you have, say, a gammon sandwich?

    #12Verfasser hm -- us (236141) 19 Apr. 21, 08:24
    Quellen
    Kommentar

    gammon is smoked or cured ham, more similar to bacon

    gammon is not meant to be eaten raw or cold

    #13Verfasser penguin (236245)  19 Apr. 21, 08:53
    Kommentar

    Etwas OT: Bei "gammon" muss ich an Backgammon denken. Ich habe eben mal kurz geschaut, ob ich irgendeinen etymologischen Zusammenhang finde. Fehlanzeige. Der Name des Spiels soll sich einfach aus "game" entwickelt haben. Es wurde also die Endung -on angehängt. Das kenne ich außerdem noch von luncheon / lunch. Gibt es noch mehr Wörter, von denen es solche Paare gibt - mit jeweils einem von beiden, das auf -on endet? Mir fällt ansonsten zumindest gerade nichts ein.


    Edit: ...surge / surgeon passt zumindest nicht richtig ins Schema.

    #14Verfasser Pippilotta007 (1196225)  20 Apr. 21, 09:08
    Kommentar

    re #14 : wäre das nicht was für einen eigenen Faden im Sprachlabor ?

    #15Verfasser no me bré (700807) 20 Apr. 21, 09:41
    Kommentar

    Ja, stimmt. Dann bitte hier nicht antworten. Ich mache mal einen auf.

    #16Verfasser Pippilotta007 (1196225)  20 Apr. 21, 09:59
    Quellen

    https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/howto/guide/how-c...

    What’s the difference between ham and gammon?

    "Both gammon and ham are cuts from the hind legs of a pig. Gammon is sold raw and ham is sold ready-to-eat,” says Caroline. “Gammon has been cured in the same way as bacon whereas ham has been dry-cured or cooked. Once you’ve cooked your gammon, it is then called ham


    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/e...

    gammon noun (MEAT FROM PIG)


    meat taken from the back leg or side of a pig and preserved with smoke or salt; a type of ham:

    This gammon is delicious.

    He helped himself to a slice of gammon.

     

     More examples


    gammon noun (PERSON)

     

    UK informal offensive plural gammon


    white man who is middle-aged (= from about 45 to 60 years old) and whose opinions are very right-wing (= supporting the political right):


    He's just an old gammon stuck in the past.

    What an unpleasant bunch of angrydim-witted gammon they are.


    Kommentar

    I eat gammon, and I eat ham, and I have never really known the official difference, but had a vague idea that gammon was just the name for raw ham, and that once you cook it, it officially becomes ham. See BBC Good Food above. You usually buy and cook a whole gammon joint and then eat it thickly sliced and hot (or cold, as leftovers), or individual gammon steaks as in penguin's #13, which are thick slices of ham that need to be cooked before eating.


    However, people tend to refer to the finished, cooked product as gammon, too, so if I were to buy a gammon joint from the supermarket, I'd still say 'we're having gammon for dinner', even if it's officially ham by the time I've cooked and served it. Likewise, you might see 'gammon and eggs' or 'gammon and pineapple' on a menu. I think the expectation is that gammon will be served hot, while ham might be served cold.


    And in checking the official dictionary definition of 'gammon' (=cut of meat) I discovered that the definition of gammon originally in question in this thread (= white middle aged man with right-wing political views) has also made it into the dictionaries. See above!

    #17Verfasser papousek (343122) 20 Apr. 21, 12:50
    Kommentar
    Thanks, papousek.

    I have to say that between you and penguin, I'm still a little confused about raw vs. cooked and hot vs. cold.
    #18Verfasser hm -- us (236141) 20 Apr. 21, 14:12
    Kommentar

    Hi hm -- us:

    As I read papousek and penguin the distinction seems relatively easy:

    Raw or hot (cooked) ~ > gammon

    cold and cooked ~> ham

    #19Verfasser AGB (236120) 20 Apr. 21, 14:21
    Kommentar

    Ich hab Gammon bisher immer ganz naiv als Kassler übersetzt

    (und ich mein jetzt nicht die mittelalten rotgesichtigen Brexiters...)

    #20Verfasser easy (238884) 20 Apr. 21, 14:26
    Kommentar

    This is a gammon steak: https://www.greatbritishchefs.com/how-to-cook...

    It is not meant to be eaten raw (and doesn't taste nice cold).

    You cook it or fry it and eat it hot.


    (see ##19 and 20).

    #21Verfasser penguin (236245) 20 Apr. 21, 14:28
    Quellen
    Kommentar

    If you go into a British supermarket you will find gammon joints (an uncooked ham joint) and gammon steaks (thick slices of uncooked ham). You have to cook both before eating them. I put gammon joints in the slow cooker. They feed a crowd very nicely.


    You might conceivably cook a gammon joint in order to let it cool and slice thickly and eat cold at a later date (see recipes for 'Christmas ham'), but as penguin says, you'd always eat a gammon steak immediately.



    #22Verfasser papousek (343122) 20 Apr. 21, 15:32
     
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