Regarding the school system, it's different with Germany as well. I, for one, have never heard of "Profilfächern" or "Neigungsfächern". We had two "Leistungskurse" (counting twice) and several "Grundkurse".

I presume, "Profilfach" is similar to "Leistungskurs", and "Neigungsfach" corresponds to "Grundkurs". But I don't know.

"within Germany" of course.

I am a teacher at a German Gymnasium.....and I just clicked on your Link.....let me tell you that "Profilfach" is something like the "Leistungskurs" (= intensified course /major) which means that it provides an introduction to academic study (as it says in that link).They take subjects like Maths, modern languages, Latin or Biology for intensified courses (about 5 lessons/week)

"Neigungsfach" is something which students are expected to take according to their talents (e.g. if a student is good at playing the piano/violin he/she may take Music for an elective course). Yet, it is not a voluntary course (extracurricular)- they have to take several of those, too. Typical "Neigungsfächer" are Art, Music, Gymnastics, etc.

I don't know if this helps, as I can't offer you any better word than "elective course".

And, yes, DW, in my time we also just had compulsory subjects.....and believe me, I am no fan of that new system, either.

This was in Baden-Württemberg.

Sorry if I was unclear. We didn't just have compulsory subjects. We had compulsory subjects + options.

e.g.

Compulsory subjects:
English, maths, P.E., at least 2 sciences, at least 1 foreign langauge etc.

Options:
History, geography, geology etc.

So is Neigung talent? I thought it was more like inclination or affinity, i.e. if a pupil likes a subject they can opt to do it.

@MunichLady: PS. I presume you know that a gymnasium is a sports hall, don't you (and were thus only using it as a proper name here)?

DW, you're right, it's affinity, but normally one would expect (especially at school subjects) that your affinity and your talent matches somehow, wouldn't you?

Munich Lady's "elective course" is a good option I think. And you're qualified to judge whether a Brit would understand the above :-)

Thanks. We certanly never had intensive courses or elective courses when I was at school, althought they may have been introduced since. They both sound quite American to me though.

OK...."Profilfach" and "Neigungsfach" are the new terms they use in BW (they have different terms in different Bundesländer).
In BW they have to take Abitur exams in German, and their "Profilfächer" (one foreign language, Maths or another science, History or Geography or Pol.science(4-5 lessons per week). So each student has to choose 2 of those (plus German)

Neigungsfächer in BW are what you just called "options"....... They do oral Abitur exams in those only.
But : History (Geography, etc.)can be chosen as a "Profilfach" OR as a "Neigungsfach".......it depends on the combination of the courses a student chooses. Students must make sure they choose subjects from four different fields (languages / sciences / sociology / arts)

@DW Of course I know that in English gymnasium is a sports hall.........that's why I typed a capital G (Gymnasium = high school in AE)

OK. Thanks for the explanation! very interesting.

PS. About "Gymnasium". I thought so, but just thought I'd better mention it for the benefit of anyone who might be confused (note that I did contemplate whether or not to mention it for over 10 mins, as I was sure you were aware of the fact) :-)

@DW that's OK ;-)
you know I have to correct that special word at least five times a week at school, as it is one of those "false friends" which they never seem to learn.....same thing with the German word "sensibel" which they usually use "sensible" for and many others...

Yes, it's one of those cases where you can only laugh or cry, isn't it? Why will they never learn?

@ DW.....because they are distracted in class (which is understandable in a way as the conditions are bad (between 29 and 33 students in one classroom) ,....... because they don't listen, don't write down things when we ask them to.... let alone study hard enough........and because they just don't care..........these are the conditions we have got used to (unfortunately)

Oh dear!

Although class sizes of between 29 and 33 sound good to me. We often had around 35, and I like to imagine I got through school without TOO much Verblödung...

@DW ....I hope we won't be reprimanded for discussing things in the wrong forum here;-)

BUT.......let me say two things....

- those links are interesting to look at, David. Is that where you went to school ??

- and as for class sizes let me ask you one thing......just think about how many English/French/Spanish sentences a student really says in a 45-min.lesson if there are 33 students in one class ? They go to school to learn foreign languages, but they hardly get the opportunity to really SAY something in those languages....

You're right, should this be in Sprachlabor, Land und leute or Quasselzimmer?

Yes, that was my school.

The simple answer to the problem of pupil participation is group working. Split the class up into groups for periods of interaction and then they all have to say quite a lot. We worked in groups in most, if not all subjects. (Some, not all of the time.)

@ DW We/I do this on a regular basis.......but unfortunately whenever they work in groups they talk German with each other......even though the assignments they work on are in/about English....that's another thing which seems impossible to avoid......even the 18/19-year-olds behave like this........so whenever we do group working our most important job is to walk around and check on them language-wise and again and again ask them to (please) speak English/french etc.........there is just NO WAY to be successful!

I guess Land und Leute would be the right forum.....and Quasselzimmer anyway, as there you can talk about everything under the sun ;-)

OK.

Well, we never really encountered that problem. The groups almost always spoke English. But then we would, I guess... ;-)

English ?? .....but this was/is THEIR/YOUR mother tongue, wasn't/isn't it ?? ;-)

Or did you mean you went to school in Germany, too?