einer/eine pro Abteilung

Department Heads

ja einer pro Abteilung, es geht um ein Treffen der Abteilungsleiter

I like Department Heads so Department Heads Meeting / Meeting for the Department Heads

Failing that you could go with a thoroughly long-winded Meeting for the Heads of all the Departments

the problem with "department heads" is, that "Head of Department" is the common term in the company.

…and its a meeting of, not for

Heads of Department- is grammatically incorrect
Head of Departments- stands for one person heading different departments
Heads of Departments- is again grammatically incorrect and also, does not satify your question as more than one deprtment is involved. it i think, means the different heads of teh different departments.

Hence you have to use department heads

Each is the head of one department, so the department remains singular. There is more than one head, so heads is plural.



Its like "chamber of commerce" - how do you form the plural of that...? (hint: it's NOT commerceS)

in that case you would say chambers of commerce. in case of head of department, when someone asks for the plural it is necessary to know if the plural is for the head or for the department. although "heads of department" sounds right, it is grammatically incorrect.

Sorry Mike, but I trust the above source much more on this matter... These aren't some crackpot sites, but universities and educational services. Plus I've heard and read it so many times.

It's "heads of department" for the same reasons as its "chambers of commerce"

@sjm- i understand completely where you from,but even "department heads" is a term i have heard a lot and also read a lot. the BBC,the daily telegraph,washington post,the times, etc. are where i have read "department heads" but not "heads of department". bit of a predicament this, guess we leave it up to the thread starter to chose what is best for him..:)

i understand completely where you coming from

To complicate things even further, "Heads of Department" is abbreviated to "HoDs" (not "HsoD") ;-)

mike, where you are coming from

And now I'll stand in the corner for being an insufferable know-it-all

Could this be an AE/BE difference? I am much more familiar with "Department Heads" - cannot currently open two browsers without my laptop crashing, but the link above shows "Dept. Heads" on many US sites (including universities)

It's "heads of department" for the same reasons as its "chambers of commerce"
Wobei aber 'commerce' nicht zählbar ist, 'department' aber schon. Das Wort 'commerces' existiert ergo gar nicht und 'commerce' bleibt immer im Singular. Bei 'body of water' würde man auch nur das 'body' ins Plural setzen.

There is nothing wrong with "department heads" either. Apart from that it is not what the OP is looking for.

ah quatsch,thought i had the "are" in the sentence already. thanks bacon, the mr.know-it-all indeed.:)

house of sin -> houses of sin

That just happens to be how we form plurals in English. The example of "chamber of commerce" is just to show you that its the first noun that needs to be made a plural (it's obvious in the case of "chamber of commerce" simply because their is no "commerces", hence it being a good eselsbruecke").

@sjm-the question isn't which noun gets the plural,rather its "in which position must that noun be placed"

and regarding "body of water" no one says "bodies of water" rather they use "water bodies" hence i can use this as an example for the "head of department" question

mike, I say "bodies of water" - never heard of "water bodies," which to me, sounds more like "Wasserleichen"

carly, this is something i'm very sure about, i.e. the use of "water bodies". you can hear this on any news channel when they are explaining certain things regarding the weather or when they talk about the latest buzzword "global warming"

sjm has me confused. In all of the examples he cites in #10, the expression is "heads of departments" (the solitary occurrence of "heads of department") appears to be anomalous, perhaps a type.

Of course, it could be that in U.K. usage "heads of department" is current.

However, "heads of departments" is in no way grammatically incorrect. "Department heads" is also quite common.

Heads of Department and Department Heads are both correct - if you can't make up your mind, use Dept. Managers :-)

and it doesn't help if you start thinking in german to explain certain english terms. just like how it isn't possible to have the exact or direct translation of certain german words to english it is the same the other way round too.

yeah right, mike - see:

Siehe auch: hohe/niedrige Einschätzung

I agree with Carly; I've always heard and used bodies of water. Water bodies reminds me of bodies floating in the water, like water lilies.

Just for the fun of it, here's a site listing "important and/or significant bodies of water" [NB: there's a whole thread on and/or]: http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/lista.htm

macpet- i said certain not all, please read the post judging. and i din't say that i was right, did i?

I have never heard of "water bodies". I have heard of "bodies of water"

So has google. 2.5 million times in fact.

@ bob: do you mean "typo" as opposed to "type"?

I don't think half a million google hits in universities across the UK can all be down to gremlins.

Names for Water Bodies- [ Diese Seite übersetzen ]Oceans are the ultimate bodies of water and refers to the five oceans ... The equator divides the Atlantic Ocean and Pacific Oceans into the North and South ...
geography.about.com/od/physicalgeography/a/waterbodies.htm - 21k - Im Cache - Ähnliche Seiten

What determines the color of large bodies of water (i.e. Ocean ...- [ Diese Seite übersetzen ]What determines the color of large bodies of water (i.e. Ocean/large lakes?) Asked by: Cindy Peabody Answer The ocean reflects the color of the sky, ...
www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae12.cfm - 84k - Im Cache - Ähnliche Seiten

Trashed: Across the Pacific Ocean, Plastics, Plastics, Everywhere ...- [ Diese Seite übersetzen ]In the coastal ocean, bodies of water are naturally defined, in part, ... In the open ocean, however, bodies of water are bounded by atmospheric pressure ...
www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ocean/Moore-Trashed-PacificNov03.htm - 25k - Im Cache - Ähnliche Seiten

Ovid Methamorphoses: Buch 5 - Arethusa (572-641) - gulli:board23. Mai 2007 ... Many of the early Greek creation myths centered on the ocean as the first ... that the ocean was the main source of all bodies of water, ...
board.gulli.com/thread/755568-ovid-methamorphoses-buch-5---arethusa-572-641/ - Ähnliche Seiten

The Names of Bodies of Water- [ Diese Seite übersetzen ]Rivers often flow into other bodies of water. For instance, the Mississippi River flows into the Gulf of Mexico. A gulf is a large area of a sea or ocean ...
www.socialstudiesforkids.com/articles/geography/bodiesofwater.htm - 16k - Im Cache - Ähnliche Seiten

mike, That could well be (I cannot reliably receive AE/BE news - seems they are constantly changing the frequencies) - perhaps this is "weather-speak" :-))

40,800 from ac.uk for "heads of department".
27,600 from ac.uk for "heads of departments".
1,820 from ac.uk for "department heads
641 from ac.uk for "head of departments".

I agree with sjm, although I can see the argument for "heads of departments" if there are several heads of several departments.

Oh, I see what you mean :) only just spotted the "deparmentS"

mike, you do remind me of our friend "Werner" here on leo ;-)

Thanks for the lively discussion.

I can't use Dep.Heads because in our company they are called head of department, so I will go for heads of department.

Thanks all again!

I would see a semantic difference between:

(1) Head of departments (one head of many departments)

(2) Heads of department (many heads, who each head one department)

"Heads of departments" is *logically* a double plural, which you could interpret as many heads, who each head multiple departments, but I would take it to mean the same as (2)in most practical contexts.

I have to agree with Faith too.

For what it's worth, google.com gives the following results:

"department heads" 1,630,000 hits http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22depar...
"heads of department" 469,000 hits
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22heads...
"heads of departments" 350,000 hits
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22heads...
"head of department" 1,970,000 hits
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22head+...

"department manager" 2,050,000
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22depar...

I agree with those who say it should be "heads of department".
Several heads, each of them presiding over one department.

Isn't "Heads of House" used in Harry Potter? Each of them is Head Teacher for one of the four Houses at Hogwarts - Snape for Slytherin, McGonagall for Gryffindor etc., and collectively they are the Heads (being more than one person) of House (only one House per person). Seems to be the same construction and logic. Ans JK Rowling isn't exactly known for sloppy English.

re water bodies - yes indeed, water bodies are drowned persons (or animals) floating in the lake, while lakes are also known as bodies of water.

Slightly OT: Mike, if you want to convince us of your superior knowledge of English grammar, usage, etc., why don't you start by brushing up your own writing skills, using capital letters where appropriate? Makes for much easier reading and greater credibility :o)

Heads of department, deffo

Ein Abteilungsleiter, zwei Abteilungenleiter?

"heads of department"

@mike - "although "heads of department" sounds right, it is grammatically incorrect." - reference please.

Plural of "Head of Department" can be simply created: just add the suffix "s" to the word "head" and you will get "heads", then introduce it before the rest to obtain "heads of (the) department".
If you mean a number of respective departments, repeat the operation about the word "department" to get eventually "heads of departments".

mike --> yTurp revisited, just without the y in his nick??

penguin, I had the same thought, especially when "water bodies" popped up...

OT - Hi Robert! Will try to finally write this weekend. It's been hectic here.

Funny, I thought prompter was yTurp...

*g* maybe a case of split personalities

penguin :-))) He/She could well be both.

prompter is always prompter, nobody else.

I would not want to say that "heads of department" is wrong, since it seems to be in use among people who use such phrases.

However, clearly it must be in proper context, otherwise it can be taken to mean one department with several heads--which would be an unusual but not impossible situation.

It should further be noted that, properly used, "heads of department" turns "department" into a collective (plural) noun. That is, "department," where more than one department is intended, must be understood or construed as a plural noun, even though it is singular in form. Peculiar, but if department heads like it, what can we say? Maybe it has high-sounding ring.

If there are several departments and as many "heads," when they all meet, you have a gathering of the heads of the departments. That seems grammatical and unassailable.

(Yes, I meant "typo" in #24.)

The discussion seems to have run its course, but here's a PS:

It's a little surprising that someone didn't point to "Heads of State" and say "gotcha!" (Clearly, "Heads of States" would be perceived as wrong.)

However, "Heads of State" is not the preferred plural because it is grammatical but despite the fact that it is ungrammatical. This is easily demonstrated: no one would dream of saying "heads of several state."

Less exalted heads--of corporations and committees, for example--must content themselves with the more plebian plural forms: "heads of corporations," "heads of committees," etc.