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    Judentum

    Quellen
    Book title: "Fritz Perls in Berlin 1893 - 1933: Expressionismus, Psychoanalyse, Judentum"
    Kommentar
    LEO gives Jewry and Judaism.

    According to my dictionary, Jewry means the Jewish people (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jewry) and Judaism means primarily the Jewish religion (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/judaism).

    Which is better here? Jewry or Judaism?

    Thanks.
    Verfasser eric (new york) (63613) 11 Okt. 09, 01:59
    Ergebnisse aus dem Wörterbuch
    Jewrydas Judentum  kein Pl.   - Gesamtheit der Juden
    Judaism [REL.]das Judentum  kein Pl.
    Kommentar
    I don't know the book, so I'm not sure whether the "Judentum" here refers to the religion (Judaism) or the people (Jewry), so it's difficult to answer. Read the book & check what the author actually means.
    #1Verfasser Richard (236495) 11 Okt. 09, 02:10
    Quellen
    Der deutsch-jüdische Kontext wird von Bernd Bocian als grundlegend für das Verständnis von Person und Werk beschrieben.
    http://www.amazon.de/Fritz-Perls-Berlin-1893-...
    Kommentar
    Or maybe jewishness?
    #2Verfasser Wachtelkönig (396690) 11 Okt. 09, 02:10
    Kommentar
    This review of the book refers (near the end) to German Jewry http://division39.org/pub_reviews_detail.php?...

    Here, might "Jewishness" do the job? Or "the Jewish world"?
    #3Verfasser Villager (GB) (575909) 11 Okt. 09, 02:14
    Kommentar
    Thanks for the suggestions. I also thought of Jewishness (which, interestingly, LEO does not mention).
    #4Verfasser eric (new york) (63613) 11 Okt. 09, 02:18
    Kommentar
    Jewishness is not current. I would use it to translate a German nonce form, such as das Jüdische, but not for Judentum. Surely in parallel with another belief system, psychoanalysis, Judentum here means Judaism.
    #5Verfassermabr (598108) 11 Okt. 09, 06:24
    VorschlagJewish life ?
    Kommentar
    How about Jewish life? I think it is what might be intended here in the German book title.
    #6VerfasserMM6911 Okt. 09, 06:37
    Kommentar
    mabr, in parallel with another belief system, Judentum may not mean Judaism, just as Christentum may not mean Christianity. With the latter we accept "Christendom" but don't have an acceptable corresponding word for Judentum. Since Christendom is equivalent to "the Christian world", I would suggest "the Jewish world" as a translation.
    #7Verfasser Robert -- US (328606) 11 Okt. 09, 06:50
    Kommentar
    You set us an interesting problem here, eric. "Judaism" is clearly not right here, and "Jewry" seems too broad. For me, the best term in the context would seem to be "Being Jewish", but this clearly doesn't fit with the rest of the title.

    I think if I were just referring to the title of the book, I would stick with "Jewry", despite its drawbacks. But if I were translating the whole book, I would try to give it a different title, perhaps something along the lines of "Fritz Perls in Berlin 1893 - 1933: A German Jew confronting Expressionism and Psychoanalysis"
    #8Verfasser Martin--cal (272273) 11 Okt. 09, 07:17
    Kommentar
    I would go for 'Judaism' or 'Jewishness,' simply because the word 'Jewry' is thoroughly archaic. To me its associations are much more medieval than modern.

    If you need a term for the people as opposed to the religion, why not just 'the Jewish people'? But to me (though I'm not Jewish), the word 'Judaism' can indeed encompass both the religion and its adherents.
    #9Verfasser hm -- us (236141) 11 Okt. 09, 07:48
    Kommentar
    It's rather a sweeping statement to say "jewishness is not current". The word does seem to be in current use, e.g. Modernism, Feminism, and Jewishness, a book by an Assistant Professor of English at Purdue University, Indiana, published in 2007 - see http://www3.cambridge.org/catalogue/catalogue...

    I suspect the only way you'll find the right word for Judentum is to follow Richard's earlier advice and read the book.
    #10Verfasser Villager (GB) (575909) 11 Okt. 09, 13:38
    Kommentar
    @hm--us, I also thought that "Jewry" seemed somewhat archaic, but a quick check seemed to show that the word is still actively used in Jewish publications; e.g. "The Madoff Scandal and the Future of American Jewry"; Commentary, May 2009.

    I don't agree that "Judaism" encompasses the Jewish people as well as the religion; -- I don't think it is a good translation in this case. But (along with Villager) I would accept "Jewishness" if a one-word translation is required.
    #11Verfasser Martin--cal (272273) 11 Okt. 09, 18:56
    Kommentar
    I retract not current. What I really meant is that Jewishness an abstract coinage of the same register as das Jüdische. It's not a dictionary word like Judentum. (OED records Jewishness as archaic in the sense of Judaism, and gives two 19th-century citations for Jewishness in the sense of Jewish quality or character, one of them slightly ironic, the other contrived ("The Jews of this country are rapidly losing all their Jewishness"). Jewry is indeed quite normal among Jews (bin selber einer).

    The book title lists in parallel three movements or orientations of thought that Perls evidently allied himself with, or experienced, or explored. Surely the reference is Jewish culture or religion, not the Jewish people. For that, Judaism is the right word.

    You can look at the Cambridge book ad. I don't think you want to write like that.
    #12Verfassermabr (598108) 11 Okt. 09, 20:02
    Quellen
    Kommentar
    From link the above: His fate exemplifies the complex and tormented relationship between Germans and Jews and the special role of German Jewry in the German cultural and intellectual history. It shows that Hitler’s most heinous crime was not only genocide but also culturocide, the destruction of the European tradition of the march of ideas, intellectual freedom, and the rule of democracy

    #13Verfasser Richard (236495) 11 Okt. 09, 20:10
    Kommentar

    According to the Merriam-Webster online dictionary, Judaism refers to both the religion and the people:


    Judaism a religion developed among the ancient Hebrews and characterized by belief in one transcendent God who has revealed himself to Abraham, Moses, and the Hebrew prophets and by a religious life in accordance with Scriptures and rabbinic traditions

    2 the cultural, social, and religious beliefs and practices of the Jews

    3 conformity to Jewish rites, ceremonies, and practices

    4 the whole body of Jews; the Jewish people

    #14Verfasser Bob C. (254583)  13 Mai 20, 16:25
    VorschlagJewish culture
    Kommentar

    Ich verstehe unter Judentum die jüdische Kultur, also Menschen, Glauben und Lebensweise, d.h. Feste, die man allgemein feiert, z.B. auch wenn man sonst mit der Kirche/Religion nicht viel am Hut hat, wie bei Christen auch.

    #15VerfasserColorada (428933) 16 Mai 20, 00:04
    Kommentar

    Wir sind uns vermutlich einig, dass das persönliche Verständnis eines Begriffs nicht auschlaggebend sein kann für eine allgemeingültige Übersetzung.

    #16Verfasser lingua franca (48253) 16 Mai 20, 01:31
     
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