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Wrong entry

oranges are off - Orangen sind ausverkauft

9 replies   
Correction

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-

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Examples/ definitions with source references
oranges are off - Orangen sind ausgegangen
oranges are off - Orangen sind ausverkauft
oranges are off - Orangen sind nicht mehr vorrätig

'oranges are off' (Brit.)?
related discussion: 'oranges are off' (Brit.)?


#1 "Good catch, as far as I can tell; this AE speaker certainly agrees"....
related discussion: 'oranges are off' (Brit.)? - #1


So we now have three different scenarios...

Workmates, or husband and wife: 'Die Milch ist alle!' --> 'The milk has run out'

Waiter: 'Ente ist heute aus' --> 'Sorry, the duck is off today'

Greengrocer: 'Orangen sind ausverkauft' --> 'We're all out of oranges'.

#22 CM2DD
related discussion: 'oranges are off' (Brit.)? - #22


"Ich würde auch erwarten, daß der Ober 'Tut mir leid, aber Ente ist schon aus/ausgegangen/gibt es nicht mehr'."
#14 Selima
related discussion: 'oranges are off' (Brit.)? - #14

off:
Brit. [informal] (of a menu item) temporarily unavailable: strawberries are off. NOAD


4 British [informal] (of an item on a menu) temporarily unavailable: strawberries are off.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/engl...

6 (especially British English) (of an item on a menu) no longer available or being served: Sorry, the duck is off.
http://oald8.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/d...

15. British: used for saying that something is not available in a restaurant.
be off: I'm sorry, sir, the roast lamb is off.
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary...




Comment
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Authorme1 (236101) 09 Nov 12, 01:57
Comment
Plädierst du für eine Löschung, me1? Wäre doch schade um die schöne Phrase!

Wenn eine Speise im Restaurant nicht mehr verfügbar ist, lautet die deutsche Standardphrase :

a) "Tut mir leid, aber Ente ist (schon) aus"
b) "Ente haben wir leider nicht mehr"

"ausgegangen" sagt man in erster Linie von Zutaten wie Mehl, bei einer Speise hat das einen negativen Unterton in der Art von "Wir haben nicht ordentlich geplant und haben jetzt zu wenig"

"gibt es nicht mehr" klingt in meinen Ohren entweder ziemlich unfreundlich oder wie eine Ansage von Weltuntergangspropheten.


Mit dem Beispiel "Waiter: 'Ente ist heute aus' --> 'Sorry, the duck is off today'" wird insinuiert, dass "to be off" bedeutet, dass ein Gericht "heute" gar nicht auf die Speisekarte gesetzt wurde. Diese Bedeutung hat "aus sein" im Deutschen nicht ("Ente ist heute aus" klingt daher seltsam) und das wäre dann ein falsches Wortpaar. In diesem Fall würde man in einem deutschen Restaurant z.B. hören:

'Ente ist heute nicht auf der Karte'

Für eine Korrektur des LEO-Eintrags müsste man also zunächst einmal die genaue Bedeutung von "to be off" abklären.
#1AuthorIlldiko (763882) 09 Nov 12, 02:22
Comment
The main point is that 'off' in this sense is BE, so if the example is kept, it needs to be marked [Brit.].

There were comments in the discussion querying whether both the English and the German side were really the most typical usage, as I recall, but only BE speakers and German speakers can decide that.
#2Authorhm -- us (236141) 09 Nov 12, 03:39
Suggestions

We're (all) out of oranges

-

Orangen sind ausverkauft



Comment
I've skimmed the other thread and agree with CM2DD that this isn't an idiomatic example in BE because 'off' applies primarily to items on a menu (or food items that are spoilt, like milk) -- and it's not often you'd find 'oranges' on the menu.

I think this was CM2DD's summary:
Workmates, or husband and wife: 'Die Milch ist alle!' --> 'The milk has run out'
Waiter: 'Ente ist heute aus' --> 'Sorry, the duck is off today'
Greengrocer: 'Orangen sind ausverkauft' --> 'We're all out of oranges'.

So if we're keeping the German phrase then the English needs changing accordingly. Using CM2DD's example I suggest the above. Americans, does it need labelling Brit.?
#3Authorpapousek (343122) 09 Nov 12, 15:25
Suggestions

Duck is off today

[Brit.] -

?



Comment
...and if we want to keep the 'off' entry then the food item needs changing and the Brit. tag adding.

Am in two minds about Illdiko's observation that 'to be off' implies the food item isn't on the menu at all today. Logically, yes, that seems right, but I can imagine a waitress also saying 'is off' about a meal that's run out. I'll think more about it.

So the German equivalent is up for debate.
#4Authorpapousek (343122) 09 Nov 12, 15:29
Suggestions

to be off (coll.)

-

alle sein (ugs.); aus sein, weg sein (sl.)



Context/ examples
Pommes sind aus!" So könnte heute die knappe Auskunft einer Bedienung lauten. Noch in der 70er Jahren wären eher die „Fritten alle” gewesen. Auch dem Nachwuchs teilten die Eltern mit, die Lutscher seien leider „alle” beziehungsweise den ganz Kleinen erklärte man: „Lutscher - alle, alle!”.
Comment
zu ändern
#5Authorwmw (386353) 09 Nov 12, 18:27
Context/ examples
NOAD:
off - (adv.) ... 4: ... • canceled: tell them the wedding's off. • [Brit. informal] (of a menu item) temporarily unavailable: strawberries are off. ... 6: [chiefly Brit.] having access to or possession of material goods or wealth to the extent specified: we'd been rather badly off for books | how are you off for money?
(adj.) ... 2: [predic.] (of food) no longer fresh: the fish was a bit off. ... 4: [predic.] [Brit., informal] annoying or unfair: His boss deducted the money from his pay. That was a bit off. 5: [predic.] [Brit., informal] unwell: I felt decidedly off.
Comment
>>Americans, does it need labelling Brit.?

Again: yes, when it means not available in a restaurant. That's the whole point.

X is off [Brit.] = We're out of X / There's no more X [Amer.]


Not when it means not fresh, spoiled; that's used in AE too.


But see above for other senses that are also marked [Brit.] in NOAD, while we're at it.

#6Authorhm -- us (236141) 09 Nov 12, 20:18
Comment
@hm--us: Could you provide us with the AE equivalents of the BE examples above, if there are any other than the NOAD descriptive terms?

Interestingly, Merriam-Webster describes "to be off" (no longer fresh) as "chiefly British".
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/off
#7AuthorIlldiko (763882) 09 Nov 12, 20:40
Comment
There's no one single equivalent, and adding a lot of different ones is probably beyond the scope of this thread, but any of several options would be fine. For example,

adv. 4, unavailable:
X is off. [Brit.]
= We're out of X. [Amer.]
= We've run out of X. [Amer.]
= There's no more X. [Amer.]
= There isn't any more X. [Amer.]

adv. 6, (for money or goods):
How are you off for money? [Brit.]
= How are you situated for money? [Amer.]
= How are you fixed for money? [Amer.] [coll.]
= How are you doing for money [Amer.]
= How are you for money? [Amer.]
We'd been rather badly off for books. [Brit.]
= We hadn't been in very good shape for books. [Amer.]
= We'd been in pretty bad shape for books. [Amer.]
= We really hadn't been well fixed for books. [Amer.]
= We'd been pretty short of books. [Amer.]
(BUT)
They're wealthy.
= They're very well off.
= They're very comfortably off.
They're not wealthy.
= They're not very well off.
(AE = BE, presumably)

adj. 4 [predic.], socially unacceptable:
His boss deducted the money from his pay. That was a bit off. [Brit.]
= That was pretty sleazy/low. [Amer.]
= That was really crummy. [Amer.]
= That just isn't done. [Amer.]
= You just don't do that. [Amer.]

adj. 5 [predic.] unwell:
I felt decidedly off. [Brit.]
= I definitely felt bad. [Amer.]
= I didn't feel good at all. [Amer.]
= I felt pretty sick. [Amer.]
= I felt pretty under the weather. [Amer.]

#8Authorhm -- us (236141) 09 Nov 12, 21:05
Comment
#6: how are you off for money?

That dictionary example looks very odd to me, FWIW.
#9AuthorKinkyAfro (587241) 09 Nov 12, 21:48
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