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the disabled - die Behinderten

19 Antworten   
Weiterer Neueintrag

disabled people

-

die Behinderten


Beispiele/ Definitionen mit Quellen
OED (http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/356283?redirect...)

handicapped
Affected with a physical or mental disability.
Handicapped was for much of the 20th cent. the standard form of designating mental or physical disability in Britain, North America, and other English-speaking regions; disabled is the term now generally preferred (see disabledadj. 2).

disabled
 2. Of a person: having a physical or mental condition which limits activity, movement, sensation, etc. Also occas. of a part of the body.
The word disabled came to be used as the standard term in this sense in the second half of the 20th cent., and it remains the most generally accepted term in both British and North American English today. It superseded outmoded, and now frequently offensive, terms such as crippled, handicapped, etc.

Words to use and avoid
Avoid (the) handicapped, use (the) disabled, disabled (people)
Kommentar
The current pairing in Leo is the handicapped -- die Behinderten (Siehe Wörterbuch: behindert). I can see no pairing for the disabled/disabled people -- die Behinderten.

The OED above and the UK government make it quite clear that handicapped is 'outmoded' and could be seen as 'offensive'. This isn't reflected in the Leo entries.

My suggestion is that all the entries for handicapped (see here Siehe Wörterbuch: handicapped) be given an 'archaic' or similar tag, to reflect that they aren't (or ought not to be) in use nowadays, and that each entry for handicapped is given an identical disabled entry (eg 'disabled children', 'disabled employee' etc). Probably quite a few of the handicapped entries can be scrapped altogether.

I haven't put a tag in, although I am interested in N American use, so AE speakers please comment -- the OED suggests it's the same as the UK.
Verfasserpapousek (343122) 12 Jul 16, 16:29
Kommentar
AFAIK, "disabled" is passe in AE and considered politically incorrect these days. What passes for "disabled" in BE has been called "challenged" in AE: physically/mentally challenged. They are also (and more recently) called "differently abled" so as not to focus on their disability but on whatever abilities they might have.
#1Verfasserdude (253248) 12 Jul 16, 16:40
Kommentar
Well, that's interesting. And at odds with the OED! (I don't expect the OED to be the final word in American usage.)

Is the OED right to say that 'handicapped' is also politically incorrect in AE?
#2Verfasserpapousek (343122) 12 Jul 16, 16:53
Kommentar
Yes. I don't think "handicapped" has been in use for quite a while in AE. It got supplanted by disabled, which got supplanted by challenged, which got supplanted by differently abled. Who knows what's next.
#3Verfasserdude (253248) 12 Jul 16, 16:58
Kommentar
Ok, so that would seem to confirm an 'archaic' style tag for all the handicapped entries.
#4Verfasserpapousek (343122) 12 Jul 16, 17:01
Kommentar
I wrote to Andrew Solomon, author of the book "Far from the Tree", and asked him. This is what he said:

"The usual usage now is “person with a disability” rather than “disabled person.”  It’s called person-first language.  Many people prefer to have their disability named: a "person with autism” or “person with Down syndrome.”  Hope that helps."
#5Verfasserpenguin (236245) 12 Jul 16, 19:29
Kommentar
There are several relevant discussions in the archives about "handicapped" being superseded by "disabled", e.g. :
I also prefer "people with disabilities" to "the disabled"

#6VerfasserMarianne (BE) (237471) 12 Jul 16, 19:56
Kommentar
yes, but papousek specifically asked about AE. Solomon is American *edit* and so is #23 in the thread linked above
#7Verfasserpenguin (236245) 12 Jul 16, 19:59
Kommentar
I would say yes, 'handicapped' is older usage, more outmoded, and more likely to be experienced as thoughtlessly offensive, than 'disabled.' I would support marking it [dated] in LEO, and I support the suggested additional entries.

Yes, 'persons with disabilities' ('... cancer / Down's syndrome / schizophrenia / AIDS / PTSD' / you name it) is the most recent and most PC way to put any of these categories, putting shared personhood (positive, inclusive) before categories associated with disease (negative, divisive). People writing longer texts, especially in academia, will be expected to know that.

(You wrote to Andrew Solomon? Wow, that's like the time Marianne wrote to Michael Mosley. Yay you. (-: )

However, 'persons with ...' is usually too long for signs or concise informational contexts. That's why the wheelchair symbol is often used in place of any words at all, and when there needs to be a single word, that word is now indeed 'accessible.'

So yes, the least bad word for people is still probably 'disabled' -- in AE as well.
#8Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 12 Jul 16, 21:30
Kommentar
As for terms such as 'challenged' and 'differently abled' --

Yes, those are of course also occasionally seen in contexts seeking to avoid negativity. But even more often, they seem to be seized on as terms of ridicule by people mocking PC language -- probably, in fact, more than they ever really caught on among academics or people who work with people with disabilities.

Also, my hunch is that those terms tend to be used somewhat more in the context of intellectual / cognitive disability -- or, in the context of physical disability, in contexts such as athletic competition. (Cf. Special Olympics, Paralympics, etc.)

So in my experience, while such terms do exist, or have at times existed in the course of various changing trends in inclusive language, they don't really tend to come up as much just in basic information about wheelchair access. They belong to a different register.
#9Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 12 Jul 16, 21:41
Kommentar
I'd written to him before after having read his book, and he'd answered, so I had his e-mail address and he answered almost immediately ...
#10Verfasserpenguin (236245) 12 Jul 16, 21:52
Kommentar
Re #9: So in my experience, while such terms do exist ... - Would you care to elaborate what exactly that experience comprises, hm? I'm only asking because although I myself am not on a professional level dealing with the OP's subject matter, I live with a person who is "differently abled" (my girlfriend's daughter), but I also live with a person (my girlfriend) who deals with this subject on a professional level as a special ed teacher. It is from her that I get most of my terminology and my "knowledge" about these things, and to my knowledge, "differently abled" tends to be used not mockingly or as ridicule, but as a "more sensitive" way of dealing with the issues of the "disabled." Then again, maybe California is different from Texas or even from the rest of the country in that respect (as it is in so many others).

Edit: re "challenged," that word has been in circulation long enough to have become mainstream and adapted to use with other words having little to do with one's abilities - or merely indirectly. For example, someone who's short would be "vertically challenged" while someone who's bald would be "follicly challenged" (and I remember using some time ago "crurally challenged" in an article I wrote - more as a joke, though, of course).
#11Verfasserdude (253248) 12 Jul 16, 22:38
Vorschläge

people with disabilities

-

die Behinderten



person with a disability

-

der Behinderte, die Behinderte



disabled people

-

die Behinderten



the disabled

-

die Behinderten



Kommentar
Useful conversation, thanks everyone (especially penguin and Andrew Solomon!!).

Are we all agreed that the handicapped entries need to go, keeping only

handicapped (obs./dated or whatever) -- behindert

for reference purposes? Do you think I also need to register these in the wrong entry forum to get them deleted?

Then we're looking at new entries along the lines of the above, with a preference for 'person with a disability' over 'disabled person' (is it possible to list preferred choices higher up in the dictionary?).

Sorry Marianne that these have all been proposed before (and recently, too), I hadn't looked too closely at the archive. Although it does seem to me that the handicapped entries need deleting or replacing reasonably urgently.

Please do all comment on my 'accessible' thread, too. Siehe auch: accessible - behindertengerecht


#12Verfasserpapousek (343122) 13 Jul 16, 12:05
Kommentar
Ok, I started a 'wrong entry' thread as well for the entries with the word handicapped

Please comment. I am sorry that I'm adding to all the many existing threads (to most of which Marianne and hm--us seem to have contributed, saying the same thing each time!) but as I say in the other thread I feel quite strongly that these entries need revising, and reasonably quickly. Thanks for your help so far!
#13Verfasserpapousek (343122) 13 Jul 16, 12:48
Kontext/ Beispiele
Disabled people
A to Z
Help for people with disabilities
Updated: 12 Jul 2016
If you or someone you live with has a disability, there are some sections of this site which will be of particular interest to you. Click on the links below for more information. We have a range of services and publications specifically designed to be of help to people with a disability.
If you need help using this website please visit our accessibility page
Kommentar
support # 12

also in BE, not just AE


#14Verfasserjamqueen (1129860) 13 Jul 16, 16:03
Vorschläge

person with a disability

-

der Mensch mit (einer) Behinderung



disabled person

-

der Behinderte | die Behinderte



people / persons with disabilities

-

Menschen mit Behinderung



disabled people

-

die Behinderten



the handicapped

[veraltet] -

die Behinderten



Kommentar
Right, borrowing from hm--us's previous suggested new entries in the thread linked to by Marianne in #6, and taking into account that the German speakers here and in this thread Siehe auch: handicapped (various) - behindert imply that there's a similar debate in German surrounding the appropriateness of disabled people/die Behinderten, then here are some proposed new entries, and an alteration to an old entry.

I've used veraltet for the handicapped -- die Behinderten, borrowing from the other online dictionaries that describe handicapped as 'dated' (see my post #5 in the above thread).
#15Verfasserpapousek (343122) 15 Jul 16, 13:49
Kommentar
Im Deutschen würde ich von einer Verwendung des Begriffs "die Behinderten" oder "Behinderte" dringend abraten, das erinnert an die Euthanasie durch Nationalsozialisten. Heute spricht man von "Menschen mit Behinderung", "Personen mit Behinderung" oder "behinderte Menschen" (so heißt auch eine Zeitung in Österreich). Wenn möglich, versucht man zu differenzieren, also "Gehbehinderte", "Sehbehinderte", "Blinde", "Taube", "Hörbehinderte" oder "Personen mit Lernschwierigkeiten" zu sagen. Hat die Behinderung einen Grad von mehr als 50 (auch 50%) - dazu gibt es einen komplizierten Schlüssel -, spricht man auch von "Schwerbehinderten". Dieser Status ist mit sozialrechtlichen Vorteilen verbunden. In der Sonderpädagogik gibt es den Begriff der "Schwerstbehinderung", hier handelt es sich um multiple Beeinträchtigungen, die eine besondere Form der Betreuung notwendig machen. Im Zusammenhang sind auch die Begriffe "barrierefrei", "barrierefreier Eingang", "barrierefreier Zugang" zu erwägen.
#16VerfasserPressler (614909) 18 Jul 16, 19:15
Kontext/ Beispiele
Im Deutschen würde ich von einer Verwendung des Begriffs "die Behinderten" oder "Behinderte" dringend abraten, das erinnert an die Euthanasie durch Nationalsozialisten.
Kommentar
Die wenigsten haben deine überpolitisierte Phantasie. Ideologiebefreite Menschen machen mit "Behinderte" genausowenig falsch wie mit "Putzfrauen" oder "Ausländern".
#17VerfasserRodos (930149) 17 Mai 18, 01:44
Kommentar
At the risk of repeating something I might have said in any of the other existing threads, what occurs to me as most important to mention now is that while 'handicapped' is no longer preferred in written contexts, or other PC-sensitive contexts such as education, social work, and research, it is not in the least 'veraltet' in everyday conversation.

(In my experience as someone without a physical disability, but with elderly friends), the most obvious and still quite common use is to refer to parking, the reserved spaces with the blue wheelchair symbol (which is sometimes hard to see until you're upon it). Anyone could quite easily say today 'That one's handicapped, you can't park there.' It's not old-fashioned in the least, just as a sort of shorthand.

So I would be inclined to mark it maybe even [ugs.], but definitely not [veralt.]. Maybe the more recent, less deprecated ones could be given a more positive marking such as [fachspr.].
#18Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 17 Mai 18, 08:10
Kommentar
Rodos, ich würde die Bezeichnung "Behinderte" auch nicht mit Euthanasie in Verbindung bringen. Was ich allerdings respektiere, ist der Wunsch vieler behinderter Menschen, dass man die Bezeichnung "Menschen mit Behinderung" benutzt. Es ist nicht immer die Behinderung, die diesen Menschen im Wege steht, sondern äußerliche Gegebenheiten wie z.B. mangelnde Barrierefreiheit. Wenn der Bus keine Rampe zum Einsteigen hat, die U-Bahnstation keinen Aufzug sondern nur Treppe, Ladeneingänge Stufen haben, die für Menschen mit einer Gehbehinderung nicht zu bewältigen sind, dann sind dieses Dinge, die eine Teilhabe am täglichen Leben erschweren.

Was den Schwerbehindertenausweis angeht. Ein Beispiel: Bei Brustkrebs wird man mit 50 % eingestuft. Daraus ergeben sich, wie Pressler sagte, u.a. steuerliche Vergünstigungen. Die Schwerbehinderung wird aber regelmäßig überprüft und kann nach Heilung auch wieder entfallen.

Es wurde von einer jungen Frau mit Down Syndrom der Vorschlag gemacht den Schwerbehindertenausweis in einen "Schwer-in-Ordnung-.Ausweis" zu benennen. Dagegen würde ich mich allerdings wehren. (Besitze selbst einen Ausweis mit 80%).
#19Verfassercassandra (430809) 17 Mai 18, 11:21
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