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  • Übersicht

    Falscher Eintrag in LEO?

    redundancy + various - Arbeitslosigkeit

    Falscher Eintrag

    redundancy + various Brit. - Arbeitslosigkeit



    Brit. -

    betriebsbedingte Kündigung

    Beispiele/ Definitionen mit Quellen
    Siehe Wörterbuch: redundancy

    Als "betriebsbedingte Kündigung" bezeichnet man eine vom Arbeitgeber ausgesprochene Kündigung, mit der einem Arbeitnehmer, der durch das KSchG geschützt ist, (trotzdem) in rechtlich zulässiger Weise ordentlich gekündigt werden kann, falls dem Arbeitgeber wegen dringender betrieblicher Erfordernisse, die einer Weiterbeschäftigung des Arbeitnehmers entgegenstehen, die Fortsetzung des Arbeitsverhältnisses nicht möglich ist.
    In der Praxis werden betriebsbedingte Kündigungen zum Beispiel bei der Schließung oder Auslagerung von Abteilungen, bei Maßnahmen der Umstrukturierung oder bei Betriebsstillegungen (etwa bei Insolvenz) ausgesprochen.
    Redundancy is a form of dismissal from your job. It happens when employers need to reduce their workforce.
    If you’re being made redundant, you might be eligible for certain rights, including:
    redundancy pay
    a notice period
    a consultation with your employer
    the option to move into a different job
    time off to find a new job
    You must be selected for redundancy in a fair way, eg because of your level of experience or capability to do the job.
    You can’t be selected because of age, gender, or if you’re disabled or pregnant. If you are, this could be classed as an unfair dismissal.

    there are a couple of entries that need either tagging, amending or deleting:

    redundancy - Arbeitslosigkeit - Tabellen ?
    redundancy letter - Entlassungsschreiben, -brief

    the best equivalent, betriebsbedingte Kündigung, is not included.

    I don't know whether AE uses the same terms.

    Verfasser jamqueen (1129860) 07 Aug. 16, 14:18
    1. Ich glaube, mit "Tabellen" meinst du gar keine Übersetzung, sondern den häufig auftauchenden Hinweis "Plural siehe Tabellen" (Pl. s. Tabellen).
    2. Im britischen Englisch bezeichnet "redundancy" nicht nur die Kündigung, sondern auch den Zustand der Arbeitslosigkeit, daher weiß ich nicht so recht, warum du diesen Eintrag streichen willst.
    #1Verfasserpenguin (236245) 08 Aug. 16, 07:42
    Im britischen Englisch bezeichnet "redundancy" nicht nur die Kündigung, sondern auch den Zustand der Arbeitslosigkeit

    Does it? I don't think I've ever heard it used that way. Can you provide some examples? Searching for combinations like "during her/his redundancy" brings up only one or two relevant (but not entirely convincing) examples, in addition to some irrelevant stuff ("during her redundancy process") and a couple of hits where the writer clearly means "at the time when he/she was in the process of being made redundant". I've also looked for "while he/she was redundant", which doesn't bring up anything relevant at all. But I'm not entirely sure how best to search for this, so I could be wrong. jamqueen's suggested changes look good to me.
    #2Verfasserdulcinea (238640) 08 Aug. 16, 09:10
    thanks for your confirmation dulcinea.

    @ penguin. I'm going by my own understanding of the word, supported by what I could find on the internet - not dictionary entries...
    #3Verfasserjamqueen (1129860) 08 Aug. 16, 09:32
    Kontext/ Beispiele
    Here we look at how the law defines redundancy and when there may be grounds for a redundancy to be described as an unfair dismissal.
    What is redundancy?
    Redundancy occurs in three situations when an employee is dismissed due to:
    the actual or intended closure of the whole business
    the actual or intended closure of the business at a particular workplace
    a reduction in the need for employees to carry out work of a particular kind. 
    redundancy is the state of having been made redundant or being redundant, although I agree that the noun is rare and that the translation "betriebsbedingte Kündigung" should definitely be added
    #4Verfasserpenguin (236245) 08 Aug. 16, 11:12
    But your example also uses "redundancy" to describe a form of dismissal in specific cases, not the state of being unemployed. I don't think "to be redundant" is used to mean "to be unemployed", either - if an employee "is redundant" (in the corporate sense of the word), he/she is "made redundant" and, unless he/she finds a new job, subsequently becomes unemployed.
    #5Verfasserdulcinea (238640) 08 Aug. 16, 12:33
    Maybe we should distinguish between the legal sense of the term (specific grounds for dismissal) and the colloquial use of the word to mean having been dismissed and now being unemployed.

    For "betriebsbedingte Kündigung" see Siehe auch: redundancy - Kündigung
    #6Verfasserpenguin (236245) 08 Aug. 16, 13:32
    I'm still not convinced it is used colloquially to mean being unemployed, but I suppose we'll just have to disagree on that point. In any case, I certainly agree that "redundancy - betriebsbedingte Kündigung" should be added.
    #7Verfasserdulcinea (238640) 09 Aug. 16, 09:59
    Kontext/ Beispiele
    OED http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/160537?redirect...

    redundancy, n
    5. Chiefly Brit.
     a. The condition of being surplus to an organization's staffing requirements; (hence) the state or fact of losing a job for this reason.
    [1924  Times 19 June 11/3 The redundancy of permanent officers in the executive class has not been reduced as rapidly as was at one time hoped.]
    1931  Economist 11 Apr. 780/1  Such economics create redundancy of staff and unemployment rather than increased employment.
    1934  Planning2xxvi. 3 The shipbuilding and wool textiles industries have succeeded in establishing common instruments with which to combat redundancy.
    1952  Economist 12 July 77  The strike against redundancy is a comparatively new phenomenon in industrial relations.
    1972  Accountant 5 Oct. 420/1 Should a staff surveyor become redundant, redundancy pay would be considered, the maximum benefit being limited to one month's pay (based on salary at the date of redundancy) for every completed year's service.
    2001  Independent 26 Mar. i. 8/1   Four members of staff face redundancy, and others re-assignment and the downgrading of their jobs.
     b. An instance or individual case of unemployment due to reorganization, mechanization, loss of business, etc. Chiefly in pl.
    1936  Economist 11 July 69/1 It is to be hoped that the number of redundancies..will not prove so large as to inflict great hardship on those who have certainly had no part in producing the present state of affairs.
    1948  Times 9 Oct. 3/2 Redundancies among junior engineers are likely to be recurrent..and eventually another 200 men are likely to be affected.
    1977  M. DrabbleIce Ageii. 240  There isn't any work. There's large-scale unemployment. Redundancies everywhere.
    2000  PrintWeek 25 Feb. 3/1  The GPMU has brought to a tribunal a claim for unfair dismissal following redundancies at Polestar Techset last May.

    redundant, adj and n
    5. Chiefly Brit.
     a. Of a person: no longer needed in a particular job or place of employment; (hence) unemployed because of reorganization, mechanization, change in demand, etc.
    1908  Times 28 Sept. 8/4  Instead of dismissing men of lower grades in the service, why not dismiss redundant officials?
    1928  Britain's Industr. Future (Liberal Industr. Inq.) xxv. 358  We reach, finally, the pressing, but difficult, problem of the redundant workers. When everything possible has been done..there is little doubt that we shall still have to deal with a large surplus of labour in the coal-mining industry.
    1969  H. E. BatesVanished World xii. 156  Nowadays,..it would no doubt be said that I became redundant. I prefer the old way: I was unexpectedly sacked.
    2003  Daily Mail (Nexis) 30 May 15  York City Council fears as many as 45 teachers and classroom assistants will be made redundant, most because of stretched finances.
    Here are the OED entries and examples. I agree with jamqueen and dulcinea that I don't think redundancy and unemployment are used interchangeably, even colloquially. Yes, they amount to the same thing (no job), but redundancy is much more than that -- it's joblessness "because of reorganization, mechanization, change in demand, etc" (OED, see above). By choosing the term 'redundancy' over 'unemployment' you are making an explicit reference to the cause of the unemployment.

    Also, I think the redundant - arbeitslos (adj) pairing is misleading, too (Siehe Wörterbuch: redundant). Firstly, as above, redundant is more specific than arbeitslos. Secondly, grammatically speaking, it's used differently than 'unemployed' or 'arbeitslos'. You'd never say "I am redundant", but "I have been made redundant".
    #8Verfasserpapousek (343122) 09 Aug. 16, 11:58
    Just to begin to address the question about AE/BE -- no, we don't use either 'redundant' or 'redundancy' in any context related to employment. We say that people have been laid off or that there have been layoffs at a company.

    I would agree that unemployment/Arbeitslosigkeit is not the same thing.

    Surely there are threads in the archive that discuss this issue.
    #9Verfasserhm -- us (236141) 09 Aug. 16, 12:13
    Kontext/ Beispiele

    1a  :  the quality or state of being redundant :  superfluity
    b  :  the use of redundant components; also  :  such components
    c  chiefly British  :  dismissal from a job especially by layoff

    I checked the noun in two more paper dictionaries and now see where I went wrong: I misunderstood "the state of being redundant" as "the situation of being unemployed" instead of "the state of being superfluous". Sorry about the confusion.

    hm -- us, I linked one such thread in #6 and gave Merriam-Webster's definition above.
    #10Verfasserpenguin (236245) 09 Aug. 16, 12:59
    Many thanks to all.

    Well, the original suggested entry is from 2007. Some entries obviously take rather a long time...
    #11Verfasserjamqueen (1129860) 09 Aug. 16, 14:38
    Kontext/ Beispiele
    Engineering & Computing etc. The incorporation of extra components or processes to permit continued functioning in the event of a failure.

    In der Regel dienen diese zusätzlichen Ressourcen zur Erhöhung der Ausfall-, Funktions- und Betriebssicherheit.
    The connotation in computing is slightly different. Here the "redundant" parts are only redundant until the main system fails, then they take over.

    To distinguish these two one could add a qualifier "tech.".
    Better would be to add some context as well: "e.g. safety-critical systems, fail-safe".
    #12Verfasserjmstuart (386235) 11 Aug. 16, 08:35
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