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Scheler konnte, wie selten einer, gesprächsweise Gedanken entwickeln, ja, neu formen, Durchblicke geben, Perspektiven eröffnen, in denen alles geschaut oder doch bis auf Geschautes zurückgeführt war.

17 replies   
Correct?

As is seldom the case, Scheler could develop a thoughtful conversation, reformulate it anew, provide insights, open up perspectives, in which everything was demonstrated, or led back to what had already been demonstrated.

Comment
Does "demonstrated" sound right for "geschaut" and "Geschautes"?
AuthorRoerich (1209471) 07 Oct 17, 20:41
Comment
No, I wouldn't say so. 'schauen' means 'look at, watch, see' and is unusual in the German, too.

The first bit of your sentence doesn't work, either. It's not seldom the case, it means that only very few people can develop thoughts like Scheier can.

(Could you please fill in your language profile?)
#1AuthorGibson (418762) 07 Oct 17, 20:51
Comment
Vorbehaltlich der Meinung der englischen Muttersprachler:
Nicht reformulate
evtl. reshape
#2Authorwienergriessler (925617) 07 Oct 17, 20:57
Comment
Since "geschaut" is meant figuratively, I suppose we can translate it by "understood". If so, then how about the following? "Like only a few people, Scheler could develop a thoughtful conversation, reformulate it anew, provide insights, open up perspectives in which everything was understood or led back to what had already been seen."
#3AuthorRoerich (1209471) 07 Oct 17, 21:15
Comment
Beim Gebrauch der Begriffe "schauen" und "Geschautes" war Max Scheler beeinflusst von Platons "Ideenschau" und Edmund Husserls "Wesensschau". Vielleicht sollte man "schauen" deshalb hier als "visionär erblicken" verstehen und mit "to behold" übersetzen.
#4AuthorMiMo (236780) 08 Oct 17, 06:41
Comment
(1)
'Scheler could develop' schreibst du.

Aber das heißt für mich: 'Scheler könnte entwickeln', nicht das gesuchte 'Scheler konnte entwickeln'.

Das ist schon sehr irreführend, nein, falsch.

Du brauchst m.E. 'was able to develop'

(Siehe auch deine anderen Anfragen.)

---

(2)

Du schreibst 'reformulate .. anew'

In 'reformulate' steckt schon durch die Vorsilbe 're' das 'anew.
Also da musst du dich entscheiden....
#5AuthorBraunbärin (757733) 08 Oct 17, 11:35
Comment
“schauen” is being used here in a sense quite specific to phenomenology. Certainly not, then, “understood” (#3). I might go for:

“Scheler had the rare gift of being able to develop, even reshape, his thoughts in conversation, offering insights and opening up perspectives, in which everything had been directly perceived or at least traced back to what had been perceived.”
 
Search “phänomenologisches Schauen” and “phenomenological seeing” online for explanations concerning and in the literature.
#6AuthorBion (1092007) 08 Oct 17, 12:41
Comment
Thanks everyone! Bion, could we talk via private messaging?
#7AuthorRoerich (1209471) 08 Oct 17, 13:29
Context/ examples
Scheler konnte, wie selten einer, gesprächsweise Gedanken entwickeln, etc.
Comment
Scheler, like none other, had the ability, through dialogue, to develop, even recast, his ideas, provide insights, open up perspectives ...

Note 1: Frankly, I think that is what we all do, develop our ideas in interaction with others. But hey ...
Note 2: I shall not venture into the phenomenology side of this.
note 3:It would be a good contribution to Leo if you gave us the translation you finally arrived at.
 
#8Authorisabelll (918354) 12 Oct 17, 13:56
Comment
"like none other" bedeutet allerdings "wie kein anderer / keiner/niemand sonst." Das ist etwas anderes als "wie selten einer": like few others / unlike many/most (evtl.)
#9Authordude (253248) 12 Oct 17, 16:30
Comment
You are right literally speaking, dude, but as i know the term it is used a little more flexibly as a rhetorical Floskel, to mean "unlike most people", not "unlike every single human on the planet".
#10Authorisabelll (918354) 12 Oct 17, 17:18
Comment
re #10 - isabelll, I like "like none other"; I agree that it's usually employed figuratively, as you argued above. So far, I'm going with: "Scheler, like none other, had the ability to develop, even recast, his thoughts in conversation, offering insights and opening up perspectives, in which everything had been directly intuited (geschaut) or at least traced back to what had been intuited (Geschautes)."
#11AuthorRoerich (1209471) 12 Oct 17, 22:47
Comment
Your rendering is better, mine had too many commas, too staccato.
However, I do not envy your having to translate this ingratiating hagiographic homily ... though perhaps we have only seen the worst bits.
#12Authorisabelll (918354) 13 Oct 17, 17:08
Comment
While I agree that "like none other" is often used, I'd consider it hyperbole in almost all cases - it's especially prevalent in advertising. If, of course, the OP doesn't mind using hyperbole, by all means, he should go ahead. I just don't think I would (especially since it's not what the German says).
#13Authordude (253248) 13 Oct 17, 17:57
Comment
Naja, dude, ich habe das Gefühl, die leichte Übertreibung passt zum überzogenen, gar ausschweifenden Duktus des Autors (vgl. #12).
#14Authorisabelll (918354) 13 Oct 17, 20:42
Comment
Wo siehst du bitte einen "überzogenen, gar ausschweifenden Duktus" im deutschen Original? Und was hat #12 damit zu tun?

Edit: von mir aus kann der OP gerne "none other" verwenden, das ist seine Sache. Ich finde halt nur, dass es zum deutschen Original nicht ganz passt.
#15Authordude (253248) 13 Oct 17, 20:51
Comment
Re non other: Ich stimme dude zu.

Nota: "... in denen" im Original beztieht sich auf Durchblicke und Perspektiven. Deshalb kein Komma vor in which (#11)! Mit dem Komma müsste sich das which auf thoughts beziehen, was falsch wäre.

"Gedanken entwickeln" heißt, einen konsequenten Gedankengang argumentativ zu entwickeln. Das ist mehr als die eigenen "ideas" beim Reden zu entwickeln, so wie isabelll es in #8 gemeint hat. Deshalb finde ich his thoughts in Bions Vorschlag #6 auch nicht ganz richtig (ansonsten finde ich den Vorschlag ganz ausgezeichnet).

#16AuthorsebastianW (382026) 13 Oct 17, 22:49
Comment
#15 - im vorhandenen Text nicht so sehr, eher in den anderen beiden Textbausteinen, die zu Roerichs Übersetzungsauftrag gehören. Ist evtl. ein Vorurteil von mir.
#17Authorisabelll (918354) 13 Oct 17, 23:08
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