Werbung - LEO ohne Werbung? LEO Pur
LEO

Sie scheinen einen AdBlocker zu verwenden.

Wollen Sie LEO unterstützen?

Dann deaktivieren Sie AdBlock für LEO, spenden Sie oder nutzen Sie LEO Pur!

 
  •  
  • Neuer Eintrag

    psychovegetative Adjektiv Med. Adj. veraltend - psychovegetativ Adj. veraltend

    Beispiele/ Definitionen mit Quellen
    Kommentar

    I believe that the psychovegetative (also seen as psycho-vegetative) an alternate, is a possibly outdated or non-native term in English referring to the autonomic nervous system. I'm not sure if psychovegetativen is also outdated in German, or still in use.


    A google search for psychovegetative shows around 140 results and since the spelling is identical, the search results include both English (mostly) and German results. (Don't believe the initial hit count of 66,000; you have to fast-forward to see the real tally, and it's 140 results; this link page 15 of results.)


    Another thing to keep in mind, is the Euro-English problem in technical domains. I don't have medical training, but I'm fairly well read and have never encountered the word psychovegetative before. It could be that this term either doesn't really exist at all in native-speaker-authored documents. Highly skilled scientists with very high professional-level competence in English can still sometimes make mistakes writing trade journal articles in English, especially in the area of technical terms which are false friends or pseudo-anglicisms. I could certainly imagine a scenario in which some highly fluent German, Swedish, or other clinician authored a paper in English, using a literal translation psychovegetative and thus unwittingly creating a neologism in English. For the purposes of a dictionary, that doesn't really matter; if it's picked up and used by others in that sense, then it's English, regardless who invented it. But it might be worth noting in the dictionary if it's a secondary usage, where some other term is primary, or if native speaker authors would phrase it differently. Glancing at the top 10 results, I see one with a .ch domain, two or three from Russia, others with English titles in the heading, but representing German articles (such as "Psychovegetative disorders in the diagnostic key of WHO", actually an article in Zeitschrift fur Psychosomatische Medizin und Psychoanalyse; this could even be from an English-headline/abstract generator done via automatic translation, so not a human-generated term in English).


    [ This actually is kind of the tip of the iceberg for a problem that is increasingly evident in online dictionaries in English, namely the problem of dealing with incorrect automatic translation, and its knock-on effects. What if all or almost all the cases of psychovegetative are the results of faulty automatic translation, or used by non-native authors after using automatic translation on German psychovegetativen because their printed dictionary didn't have the word? Is bad programming in Google Translate the future source of most neologisms in English? But that is a bigger problem, for another forum... ]



    Verfasser Peter <us> (41) 16 Sep. 20, 19:24
    Kommentar

    Have I just seen a Fata Morgana??


    Welcome back, Peter (us)!!

    #1Verfasserpenguin (236245) 16 Sep. 20, 19:37
    Kommentar

    ;-) It's supposed to be adj. not n., but now I don't see how to edit it anymore.

    #2VerfasserPeter <us> (41)  16 Sep. 20, 19:56
    Kommentar

    Pssst : in der Betreffzeile müsste es auf deutschsprachiger Seite heißen : psychovegetativ ...


    ... dazu :


    https://www.dwds.de/wb/psychovegetativ

     psychovegetativ

    Grammatik Adjektiv

    Worttrennung psy-cho-ve-ge-ta-tiv

    Wortzerlegung ↗psycho- ↗vegetativ

     ... Verwendungsbeispiele für ›psychovegetativ‹

    Die meisten werden in dieser Hektik nervenkrank, es kommt zu psychovegetativen Störungen und führt zu organischen Leiden.

       Die Zeit, 14.09.1973, Nr. 38

    Sie werden nervös in Berlin, die Körper spielen nicht mehr mit dem Kopf, die psychovegetativen Nervensysteme liegen blank.

       Die Zeit, 07.10.1999, Nr. 41

    Deswegen wird umgekehrt der Genuß des familiären Beisammenseins so stereotyp zum Betätigungsfeld und auch zum Ausgangspunkt weiterer psychovegetativer Syndrome.

       o. A.: GESUNDHEIT - EIN GUT UND SEIN PREIS. In: Marxistische Zeit- und Streitschrift 1980-1991, München: Gegenstandpunkt Verl. 1998 [1988] ... 


    https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/psychove...

     psychovegetativ

    Wortart      Adjektiv

    Gebrauch      Medizin

     ... Bedeutung      die Psyche und das vegetative Nervensystem betreffend; auf einer von seelischen Vorgängen ausgelösten Störung des vegetativen Nervensystems beruhend (besonders von organisch nicht fassbaren Krankheitssymptomen) ...


    https://www.pschyrembel.de/psychovegetativ/P04KB

     psychovegetativ

       Singular

       Englisch: psychovegetative

       Begriffsherkunft: Psych-, lat vegetare beleben, anreizen

    Psyche und vegetatives Nervensystem zugleich betreffend bzw. deren Zusammenhang bezeichnend. Psychovegetative Vorgänge treten bei Zuständen auf, bei denen beide Komponenten Teil einer Reaktion sind, z. B. Panikgefühl und Schweißausbruch bei Angstreaktion. Beide Komponenten können einander gegenseitig verursachen oder auf eine gemeinsame Ursache zurückgehen. ...


    #3Verfasserno me bré (700807) 16 Sep. 20, 20:05
    Kommentar

    Thanks for that very full response. It seems clear from the above and other sources that autonomes Nervensystem = vegetatives Nervensystem, and that they are equivalent to autonomic nervous system in English.


    That leaves two questions:

    1. is psychovegetatives Nervensystem a synonym of vegetatives Nervensystem ?
    2. can psychovegetatives be translated as autonomic in other contexts?


    Looking at entry #1, and this snippet:


    "Sie werden nervös in Berlin, die Körper spielen nicht mehr mit dem Kopf, die psychovegetativen Nervensysteme liegen blank."


    That kind of confirms my belief that this is about the autonomic nervous system:


    I see that vegetatives Nervensystem (VNS) (also, autonomes Nervensystem (ANS) ) is "autonomic nervous system".


    It seems like "autonomic" could be the right translation for vegetativ here.


    I also found this discussion: vegetative nervous system - vegetatives Nervensystem .


    Which leaves only the psychovegativ adjective , which I assume is just a variant form of vegetativ, but I don't see proof of that, only a likelihood of it. If correct, that would make autonomic the correct translation for psychovegetativ.


    Any opinions on that? I.e., psychovegetativen Nervensysteme appears to me to be a synonym, or alternate term, or outdated term, for vegetativen Nervensysteme. Is that a correct assumption?


    And can we add psychovegetativautonomic to the dictionary as a translation pair?


    #4VerfasserPeter <us> (41)  16 Sep. 20, 20:37
    Kommentar

    My 2p FWIW.

     

    I agree entirely that “autonomes Nervensystem = vegetatives Nervensystem, and that they are equivalent to "autonomic nervous system" in English, as can be seen from my comments in other threads.

    related discussion: vegetatives Nervensystem - #3

    related discussion: vegetative nervous system - vegetatives Nerv... - #7

    supported by gygis in comment #8


    Whereas "vegetative nervous system" is no longer used in English, vegetatives Nervensystem is still used as much as (if not more than?) autonomes Nervensystem in German.


    I have not really come across psychovegetativ used in German before, but from the definitions given above (Psyche und vegetatives Nervensystem zugleich betreffend) it links the autonomic nervous system to higher cerebral functions.


    Looking at a few examples of its usage:

    “zu den psychovegetativen Beschwerden gehören Nervosität und Angst sowie depressive Verstimmungen

    https://www.stada.de/service-gesundheit/stada...


    "Erkrankungen des psychovegetativen Nervensystems"

    "… Ein- und Durchschlafstörungen, bei Angst,- Spannungs- und Unruhezuständen sowie bei depressiver Verstimmung …"

    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978...


    "... andere (extrakardiale) Ursachen: z. B. Hyperthyreose (Schilddrüsenüberfunktion), Elektrolytstörungen (Kalium, Magnesium, Calcium), Hypoxie, Holiday-Heart-Syndrom (durch Alkohol ausgelöste Rhythmusstörung), psychovegetativ (Angst, Stress, Übermüdung) ..."

    http://www.gesundheits-lexikon.com/Herz-Kreis...


    The above are not pure ANS symptoms but mental health issues closely linked to autonomic (dys)function, e.g. anxiety activates the ANS.


    Psychovegetative Erschöpfung

    „Den vielfältigen und übergreifenden Symptomen des „Burnout Syndroms“ und des „chronischen Müdigkeitssyndroms“ (CFS) liegt eine Störung des vegetativen (unwillkürlichen) Nervensystems zu Grunde.“

    http://www.dr-med-schreiber.de/aerztliche-lei...


    "Burn-out Erschöpfungssyndrom / psychovegetative Erschöpfung

    [...]

    Innere Nervosität, Erschöpfung und Depression folgen daraus. […] Oft sind diese Zustände von körperlichen Symptomen des vegetativen Nervensystems begleitet."

    https://www.kuren.ch/psychosomatisch/burn-out...


    CFS and burnout are mental health issues closely associated with autonomic dysfunction.

    I really don’t think they are described as “psychovegetative” in English.


    My impression from the Google hits for “psychovegetative” in English is that they are examples of use by non-native English speakers in translations mainly from German sources. Looking at site:.uk and site:.edu, in most of the few papers by NESs, the word could be traced back to a reference to a German, Russian or other non-native source.

    I also looked at “psycho-autonomic” in English – again, mainly German/Russian sources (e.g.”psycho-autonomic exhaustion” for burnout). I found only a very few reputable NES source, for example:


    “Individuals' stimulus-locked, phasic SCRs and trial-by-trial behavioral assessments were entered as regressors into a flexible factorial design to establish their separate autonomic and behavioral neural correlates, and convolved to examine psycho-autonomic interaction (PAI) effects.”

    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/...


    “ … for from its constituent elements may be eventually forged the dynamic energy of psycho-autonomic activity.”

    (1937)

    https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/2/4008/845.fu...

     

    So, in answer to your questions:

    > Which leaves only the psychovegativ adjective , which I assume is just a variant form of vegetativ, but I don't see proof of that, only a likelihood of it. If correct, that would make autonomic the correct translation for psychovegetativ.

    I don’t think it is just a variant – it adds the mental health aspect – and "autonomic" is therefore not a correct translation.


    > Any opinions on that? I.e., psychovegetativen Nervensysteme appears to me to be a synonym, or alternate term, or outdated term, for vegetativen Nervensysteme. Is that a correct assumption?

    I don’t think so – the autonomic nervous system per se does not include the higher nervous functions.

     

    > And can we add psychovegetativ – autonomic to the dictionary as a translation pair?

    No. I can find no proof that this is a valid translation.

    The best I can suggest is “psycho-autonomic” but even that with reservation, as it is hardly ever used in English - there is no recognised concept of a "psychovegetative/psycho-autonomic nervous system" .


    It might be of more use to enter the pair “burnout - psychovegetative Erschöpfung”

    #5VerfasserMarianne (BE) (237471)  19 Sep. 20, 14:58
    Kommentar

    Just wanted to add my (belated) thanks to Marianne (BE), and again to everyone who participated.

    #6VerfasserPeter <us> (41) 19 Okt. 21, 04:51
     
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  
 
 
 
 
 ­ automatisch zu ­ ­ umgewandelt