Übersicht

Falscher Eintrag in LEO?

wide off the mark - *

9 Antworten

Falscher Eintrag	wide off the mark - *
Korrekturen	wide of the mark - daneben off the mark - daneben
Kommentar	There is no Examples field in this forum, and the Source fields are all teeny, so I'm splitting this into two sections, sorry... Pons-Collins: to be wide OF the mark - (shooting) danebentreffen, danebenschießen; (fig: in guessing, calculating) danebentippen, sich verhauen (inf) your calculations were wide OF the mark - mit deiner Kalkulation hast du dich ganz schön verhauen (inf) Oxford-Duden: be wide OF the mark (lit. or fig.) - danebentreffen his calculations were wide OF the mark - mit seinen Berechnungen hat er völlig danebengetroffen my guess was OFF the mark - mit meiner Schätzung lag ich daneben (ugs.) be close to the mark (fig.) - der Sache nahe kommen M-W online: off base - 1: WRONG, MISTAKEN 2: UNAWARES Webster's unabridged: wide(1) 3c(3): straying or deviating from something specified -- used with 'OF' <far wide OF reality - Lucien Price> ... 3c(6): far off the intended course: away from the point aimed at ... -- used often in the expression 'wide OF the mark' <nothing could be more ludicrously wide OF the mark - F.R. Leavis> American Heritage 4th ed. (online): wide 4a. To the side of or at a distance from a given boundary, limit, or goal: 'a shot that was wide OF the target.' ... 5. Deviating or straying from something expected or specified: 'a remark that was wide OF the truth.' off base Badly mistaken. American Heritage 2nd ed.: wide 6. Far, apart, or away from the desired goal or point: 'wide OF the mark'; 'wide OF the truth.'
Verfasser	hm -- us	12 Mär. 04, 06:45

Falscher Eintrag

wide off the mark - *

Korrekturen

wide of the mark

daneben

off the mark

daneben

Kommentar

There is no Examples field in this forum, and the Source fields are all teeny, so I'm splitting this into two sections, sorry...

Pons-Collins:
to be wide OF the mark - (shooting) danebentreffen, danebenschießen; (fig: in guessing, calculating) danebentippen, sich verhauen (inf)
your calculations were wide OF the mark - mit deiner Kalkulation hast du dich ganz schön verhauen (inf)

Oxford-Duden:
be wide OF the mark (lit. or fig.) - danebentreffen
his calculations were wide OF the mark - mit seinen Berechnungen hat er völlig danebengetroffen
my guess was OFF the mark - mit meiner Schätzung lag ich daneben (ugs.)
be close to the mark (fig.) - der Sache nahe kommen

M-W online:
off base - 1: WRONG, MISTAKEN 2: UNAWARES

Webster's unabridged:
wide(1) 3c(3): straying or deviating from something specified -- used with 'OF' <far wide OF reality - Lucien Price> ... 3c(6): far off the intended course: away from the point aimed at ... -- used often in the expression 'wide OF the mark' <nothing could be more ludicrously wide OF the mark - F.R. Leavis>

American Heritage 4th ed. (online):
wide 4a. To the side of or at a distance from a given boundary, limit, or goal: 'a shot that was wide OF the target.' ... 5. Deviating or straying from something expected or specified: 'a remark that was wide OF the truth.'
off base Badly mistaken.

American Heritage 2nd ed.:
wide 6. Far, apart, or away from the desired goal or point: 'wide OF the mark'; 'wide OF the truth.'

Verfasser

hm -- us

12 Mär. 04, 06:45

#1	Verfasser	hm -- us	12 Mär. 04, 06:48
Kommentar		Among others, LEO currently has völlig daneben liegen = to be wide OFF the mark völlig daneben liegen = to miss by a mile völlig daneben liegen = to be far out [coll.] wide OFF the mark = weitab vom Ziel off target = daneben I would suggest correcting to, for starters: völlig daneben liegen = to miss by a mile [leave unchanged] daneben = wide OF the mark daneben = OFF the mark daneben = off target [leave unchanged] daneben = out [Brit.] daneben = off base [Amer.] Most of those can be intensified by 'sehr' or 'weit' or something in German, and in English by 'far,' 'way,' 'well,' etc., but I'm not sure it makes sense to list all the intensifiers. Multiplied by the number of basic entries, the number of possible combinations quickly becomes unwieldy. For the same reason, many related words like liegen, treffen, greifen, hauen, etc. are possible but probably unnecessary. All entries are basically [coll.] and [fig.]. Most exist also in literal senses, but again, those are probably not necessary.

#2	Verfasser	hm -- us	14 Mär. 04, 01:12
Kommentar		I see the minimal correction has already been made, at lightning speed -- thanks! (-: However, I'm not sure if I need to repost the other related suggestions (particularly 'off base' and 'off the mark,' and marking 'out' as [Brit.]) under New Entry, or if they're still being considered, or what. I was trying to make all the related concepts easier to consider at one glance and in relation to each other, and trying not to start more separate threads than necessary, but if that was wrong, I hope someone will say so.

#3	Verfasser	Selima	14 Mär. 04, 09:40
Kommentar		Meiner Meinung nach wäre es aber schon hilfreich, wenn die Verben dabei stünden oder eine ganzer Beispielsatz eingestellt würde. Dann kann es nicht zu einer Verwechslung mit dem wörtlich gemeinten 'daneben' kommen. Oder man schreibt in Klammer oder kursiv dahinter etwas wie 'im Sinne von falsch'. Das würde eigentlich auch reichen.

#4	Verfasser	Uho <de>	15 Mär. 04, 00:02
Kommentar		Mal so eine Frage am Rande: Wieso heißt es denn eigentlich "wide OF the mark" (mit einem f)? Es scheint zwar die übliche Schreibweise zu sein, aber logisch erscheint sie mir nicht, denn wörtlich wäre doch: wide off the mark = weit abseits de Ziels wide of the mark = das Weite des Ziels Oder?

#5	Verfasser	hm -- us	15 Mär. 04, 01:59
Kommentar		@Selima: Thank you for your comment. I see your point that more context makes the meaning more visible at a glance. However, even without context, confusion between literal and figurative senses seems unlikely in most of these cases. In both languages, the literal and figurative meanings are closely related, and the literal (archery) is relatively infrequent. I do agree that, without context, confusion with other senses of 'daneben' is entirely possible. But LEO's policy so far has been that it's up to the user to recognize which sense fits a given context. LEO may eventually decide to add same-language clues to context, such as daneben (= falsch) daneben (= an der/die Seite davon) daneben (= außerdem) That would indeed be very helpful to users. But that's a much larger issue. In the meantime, it seems to me that a more achievable step toward greater user-friendliness would at least be to make entries more concise and more consistent (parallel in grammatical form).

#6	Verfasser	hm -- us	15 Mär. 04, 02:02
Kommentar		@Uho: I have the feeling you're being led astray by cognates here, as was IMO whoever made some of the original entries. I agree it's confusing. I'm afraid I didn't explain very fully before, in an effort to stay (relatively) concise. But let me try again. 'Weit' is an optional intensifying adverb, not part of the basic meaning. It is similar to 'sehr'; 'völlig' is also similar, but more extreme. The English translation is not 'wide' but 'far' (or 'well,' or more colloquially, 'way'). So 'wide + off the mark' is as wrong as 'wide + away from a place.' 'Wide of' is a two-word phrase meaning 'abseits von.' 'Wide' means 'abseits,' 'of' means 'von.' (Actually my dictionaries give 'abseits' also as a preposition with the genitive. Is 'abseits des Ziels' also possible in addition to 'abseits vom Ziel,' or would it mean something different?) 'Off the mark' is the opposite of 'on the mark.' It means the same as 'wide of the mark': not on target. 'Off base' has a similar meaning.

#7	Verfasser	hm -- us	15 Mär. 04, 02:04
Kommentar		Another way of putting it is that there are many possible logical combinations (though not every combination is idiomatic): (weit / sehr / völlig +) daneben / abseits (vom Ziel) / falsch (+ liegen / treffen / sein / greifen / hauen / etc.) (be / go / fly, land (arrow) / etc. +) (far / well / [coll.] way / completely +) wide of the mark / off the mark / off target / off base / [Brit.] out That's why it seems more practical to include only the basic units of meaning, not the optional parts in parentheses. Otherwise the count of possible combinations quickly gets out of hand and Übersichtlichkeit falls below a reasonable threshold. If I understand it correctly, 'das Weite des Ziels' would be the distance to the target (between the shooter and the target); 'Breite' would be the width of the target (diameter). But in any case, 'wide' can't be a noun, only an adjective (= 'breit') or, as here, an adverb. Hope that helps, and thanks again for taking time to read and comment. (-:

#8	Verfasser	hm -- us	15 Mär. 04, 03:46
Kommentar		On reflection I think I got 'abseits' mixed up with '(weit)ab vom.' Sorry, sorry, this is why I need native speakers to help with the German side.

#9	Verfasser	Uho <de>	15 Mär. 04, 10:23
Kommentar		Thanks hm, for your explanation, which makes sense now. Re your question: "Is 'abseits des Ziels' also possible in addition to 'abseits vom Ziel,' or would it mean something different?" Beides ist korrektes Deutsch und bedeutet das gleiche -- ich empfinde 'abseits des Ziels' als eleganter als die zweite Variante. In fast allen Fällen, in denen der Genetiv durch "von" + Dativ ersetzt wird, verliert der Satz m.E. an Niveau -- dennoch setzt sich diese Konstruktion immer mehr durch, da sie grammatisch einfacher ist. Re "If I understand it correctly, 'das Weite des Ziels' would be the distance to the target." Nein, für mich ergibt dieser Ausdruck keinen Sinn. "die Weite vom Ziel" wäre das, was du beschreibst -- wobei man eher "die Entfernung vom Ziel" sagen würde. "Die Weite des Ziels" wäre hingegen entweder, wie weit das Ziel von einem selbst entfernt ist oder evtl. auch dessen Größe/Durchmesser. Sofern all deine Erläuterungen zutreffen (wovon ich ausgehe), befürworte ich den Eintrag.

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Falscher Eintrag in LEO?

wide off the mark - *

wide off the mark - *

wide of the mark

daneben

off the mark

daneben

Emojis

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Internationales Phonetisches Alphabet (IPA)

Trennende diaktritische Zeichen und Suprasegmentale

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Liebe Nutzerin, lieber Nutzer,

Spende per Überweisung

Spende über Paypal

Übersicht

Falscher Eintrag in LEO?

wide off the mark - *

wide off the mark - *

wide of the mark

daneben

off the mark

daneben

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