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  • Übersicht

    Falscher Eintrag in LEO?

    per procurationem [abbr.: per pro, p.p.] - as an agent [Lat.] - in Vertretung

    Falscher Eintrag

    per procurationem [abbr.: per pro, p.p.] - as an agent [Lat.] - in Vertretung


    on behalf of [abbr.: per pro, p.p. from the Latin per procurationem]


    in Vertretung [abk. i.V.]

    As far as I know no one writes out "per procurationem", "on behalf of" is used normally when written out.

    "He signed on behalf of the president of the company"

    p.p. is used for documents as far as I know:

    signature: Robert L. (p.p. Christine Z.) or something like that...

    someone please help clarify this... It's late and I'm going home. I think it's a very useful entry, since everyone knows what "on behalf of" means, whereas "p.p." is more obscure, especially for non-native speakers and George W. Bush.

    Besides you can't write "he signed per procurationem for John" can you? Or at least it's not very colloquial...


    VerfasserJohn (p.p. Jimmy)11 Nov. 04, 17:26
    No, you can't. As you correctly say, pp stands for "pro procurationem" (on behalf of) In German this translates as "per Prokura". Prokura is a title which enables the bearer to fully represent the company externally, i.e. that person can do anything short of selling the company (internally, of course, these powers haven usually been reduced). Nobody who is not a Prokurist can sign "p.p.".
    #1VerfasserWerner12 Nov. 04, 06:57
    Werner is definitely right that these are two different things. Anyhow, I would suggest "by proxy" for German "per Prokura". Even if many dicionaries (e.g Dietl/Lorenz) propose things like "per procuration", it is very unlikely that you meet a British (don't know about US) lawyer who will understand this term unless his/her particular field of practice is German law. The "Prokurist" would then be the "proxy holder".
    #2VerfasserFandango12 Nov. 04, 14:49
    @Werner: The Latin for p.p. is "per procurationem" (not "pro procurationem).

    "p.p." may be read either "per pro." or "by proxy".
    #3VerfasserNorman Neal12 Nov. 04, 14:58

    by proxy (abbr. : p.p., per pro) - abbr. of "per procurationem" [Lat.]


    in Vertretung (abk.: i.V.)

    As Fandango and Werner both pointed out "on behalf of" is not official enough. Maybe "by proxy" would be official enough.

    Granted p.p. is the abbreviation for "per procurationem", however,
    just like the following...

    for example [abbr.: e.g.] - abbr. of "exempli gratia" [Lat.]


    that is [abbr.: i.e.] - abbr. of "id est" [Lat.]

    ...no one uses the Latin phrase in speech, or in writing without abbreviating it.

    And no one argues that "for example" is not the same as "e.g.", right?

    I'm looking for the same answer for p.p., because I'm not satisfied with just the Latin phrase, since no one writes it out.

    This also means that the entry "id est" for "das heißt" is also wrong, in my opinion, since it's not really English - only the abbreviation is used.

    If it were like "et cetera" then that would be different.

    And I think it's important to have the German abbreviation "i.V." for "in Vertretung" as well...

    What is LEO's view?

    #4VerfasserJohn16 Nov. 04, 13:03
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