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  • Falscher Eintrag

    produce - Obst und Gemüse

    Korrekturen

    delete

    -

    delete


    Kommentar
    The reference in LEO to Obst und Gemüse is, in my opinion, too narrow.

    AHD has 2. Farm products, especially fresh fruits and vegetables, considered as a group.
    where we must consider the use of especially. The phrase introduced by 'especially' is merely a qualifier for the term 'Farm products' - and that is the nub: produce refers to Farm products.

    Perhaps there is a specialist usage of produce unknown to me, where it is readily understandable as meaning 'fruit and vegetables', but anyone aware of it can simply contradict me. If there is such a specialist usage, then I suggest flagging it in this case with a suitable tag.
    Verfasserodondon irl12 Jan. 05, 13:38
    Kommentar
    Zumindest nach Webster's Unabridged Dictionary stimmt dieser Eintrag durchaus. Dort heißt es unter "produce" und "noun"

    prod·uce
    12.something that is produced; yield; product.
    13.agricultural products collectively, esp. vegetables and fruits.
    14.offspring, esp. of a female animal: the produce of a mare.

    Da würde man dran denken, eher die letzte Bedeutung noch anzufügen als "Obst und Gemüse" zu streichen!
    #1VerfasserFrankli12 Jan. 05, 14:46
    Kommentar
    The 'produce' section in the supermarket, is the one with the fresh fruit and vegetables. Commonly used term in this context.
    I agree that it should perhaps be flagged as special usage though.
    #2VerfasserRES-can12 Jan. 05, 14:51
    Kommentar
    @Frankli: the specially is exactly the point I'm making.
    IF fruit and vegetables were meant by produce, and fruit and vegetables mainly or exclusively, then the entry would read as such.
    since it doesn't read as such, but instead 'agricultural products' (the 'fruit and vegetables' indicating which of those products are mostly meant) then the translation has to indicate this.

    if I want to translate from the English 'produce', and refer to the production of a farm in its entirety, i.e. including non-foodstuff products or animal products, and I look in LEO, and pick 'Obst und Gemüse', I am, according to you, right, whereas I would be, according to me, only partly right.

    #3Verfasserodondon irl12 Jan. 05, 14:55
    Kommentar
    the comment by RES-can leads me to believe that perhaps there is a BE/AE thing here.

    I know of no supermarket in BE-countries which has a 'produce' department, whereas all the supermarkets I've ever seen do have a fruit and vegetable department.

    I'd like to refer to the second posting with the same title, and because of this likely to be ignored, since there the direction D>E gives the same translation, and that is also wrong
    #4Verfasserodondon irl12 Jan. 05, 14:58
    Kommentar
    @odondon irl:

    Ich glaube, dass ein Wort oftmals sowohl eine generische als auch eine spezifische Bedeutung hat, aber deshalb darf man die spezifische doch nicht einfach weglassen. Bisher kenne ich auch in keinem Wörterbuch eine Markierung für solche Übersetzungen (allenfalls in vielen gedruckten Wörterbüchern die Reihenfolge, was aber bei Leo, wie oft diskutiert, nicht gewünscht ist. Ich glaube mich zu erinnern, dass hier schon oft drüber diskutiert wurde, in wie weit spezifische Bedeutungen *in Leo* mit aufgeführt werden müssen. Im vorliegenden Fall sind ja die allgemeineren genannt, wenn man dann Weiteres wissen will, dann muss man eben in einem Wörterbuch mit Erklärungen, wie etwa Webster's oder MW nachschauen. Wenn man sich die Anfragen im Forum anschaut, dann sind's immer die spezifischen Bedeutungen, die Leo nicht nennt und an denen der Übersetzer hängen bleibt.

    BTW dies ist glaube ich das erste Mal seit ich bei Leo mitmache, dass ich glaube, Dir widersprechen zu müssen. Das soll aber nicht heißen, dass ich nicht gerade Deine Beiträge besonders schätze.
    #5VerfasserFrankli12 Jan. 05, 15:14
    Kommentar
    @Frankli - I'm quite aware of the generic/specific problems and have no beef with them.
    but to give an example of what I mean I googled for produce site:.uk. Of the first ten entries, four referred to the verb, 2 solely to fruit and vegetables and the rest to fruit and vegetables and meat, flowers, canned and dried fruit and so on.

    Translating from E>D and using the offer of LEO 'Obst und Gemüse' would therefore get a 66% chance of an incorrect translation. (of course, I'm aware that produce on the other 5,239,990 sites will significantly change this relationship, but it suffices to support my doubts).

    The problem remains - the normal usage of produce implies a conscious awareness that one means more than 'just' fruit and vegetables, but all and any products of farms.
    Here's a typical example of what I refer to:
    http://www.big-island.co.uk/
    #6Verfasserodondon irl12 Jan. 05, 15:48
    Kommentar
    Ich muss odondon.irl hier Recht geben. Produce sind eher Landes-, Bodenprodukte bzw. (Natur-)erzeugnisse. Ob das aber den Begriff _produce_ abdeckt. Obst und Gemüse ist jedenfalls zu eng gefasst.
    #7VerfasserUrsula12 Jan. 05, 15:48
    Kommentar
    I support RES-can.
    Googling for "the produce guy" (which, incidentally, is a quote from Anthony Bourdain's "Kitchen Confidential" and refers to his restaurant's supplier of fruit and veg) yields American sites where the term "produce" is used to mean "fruit and vegetables", so maybe it should be marked American English rather than special usage
    #8Verfasserpenguin12 Jan. 05, 17:24
    Kommentar
    While I would instinctively call it the fruit and veg section in the supermarket, I have no problem with the 'produce section' being the place I find my bananas. I thought perhaps this was just the American influence on Australian English coming through, but then I found this gem on a UK site...

    A man walked into the produce section of his local supermarket and asked to buy half a head of lettuce. The boy working in that department told him that they only sold whole heads of lettuce, but the man was insistent that the boy ask his manager about the matter.

    Walking into the back room, the boy said to his manager, "Some wanker wants to buy a half a head of lettuce". As he finished his sentence, he turned to find the man standing right behind him, so he added, "And this gentleman kindly offered to buy the other half".

    The manager approved the deal and the man went on his way.

    Later the manager found the boy and said, "I was impressed with the way you got yourself out of that situation earlier. We like people who think on their feet here. Where are you from, son?".

    "Essex, sir", the boy replied.

    "Well, why did you leave Essex," the manager asked.

    The boy answered, "Sir, there's nothing but whores and football players there".

    "Really?", said the manager ruefully, "My wife's from Essex".

    The boy instantly replied, "No shit, which team does she play for?".

    #9VerfasserSue <aus>12 Jan. 05, 17:47
    Korrekturen

    produce department

    -

    Obst- und Gemüseabteilung



    Kommentar
    @odondon irl: Ich habe "produce" als Nomen erst kennen gelernt, als ich es auf Schildern der Obst- und Gemüseabteilung in verschiedenen Supermärkten gelesen habe. Und da ich noch nie in den USA war, muss es in England gewesen sein ;-)(Safeway oder Tesco? Ich weiß es nicht mehr...)

    @Sue: *lol*
    #10Verfasserrob-by12 Jan. 05, 20:04
    Korrekturen

    no change

    -

    no change



    Kommentar
    It should stay as it is but perhaps flagged for AE.

    "I'm going to get some fresh produce"
    "Where is the fresh produce"
    "where is the produce section"
    "They have lots of good products and produce in that store"
    etc

    such use is both common and perfectly OK in AE. Produce could be more than Obst and Gemuese, but in its more common usage it refers to only Fruit and Vegetables.
    #11Verfasserma 12 Jan. 05, 22:20
    Kommentar
    The "produce" department does now seem to be the fruit and veg. part of some supermarkets. Would I be right in thinking that this has been shortened from "fresh produce", i.e. fruit and vegetables (and flowers?). The term "dairy produce" still covers milk, cheese, eggs etc.
    Farm produce includes meat, poultry, agricultural/dairy/fresh produce and things like honey so I agree with odondon that "Obst und Gemuse" would only give part of the picture.
    #12VerfasserMarianne (BE)12 Jan. 05, 22:51
    Vorschläge

    Produce

    Sg. Amer. -

    Obst und Gemüse



    Kommentar
    Walk into any grocery store in the USA and ask for the produce department. Everyone will know precisely what you mean and will send you to the fresh fruits and vegetables, nowhere else. Not meats. Not dairy.
    Perhaps this can be labelled AE, even though it is at times used in the BE world.
    This fits precisely into definition #2 from Merriam-Webster online:
    1 a : something produced b : the amount produced : yield
    2: agricultural products and especially fresh fruits and vegetables as distinguished from grain and other staple crops
    3: the progeny usually of a female animal
    #13Verfasserhbwb30 Aug. 10, 11:24
    Vorschläge

    produce (esp. BE)

    -

    Obst und Gemüse



    Kontext/ Beispiele
    produce - noun
    fruit and vegetables, goods, food, products, crops, yield, harvest, greengrocery (Brit.)
    I buy organic produce whenever possible.

    Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002

    Kommentar
    Eintrag richtig.
    #14Verfasserw30 Aug. 10, 13:20
    Kommentar
    @#14:
    ?. I don't know how you've come up with "esp. BE". What's your evidence for that? The Brit. tag in the definition you quote relates to greengrocery.
    #15VerfasserKinkyAfro (587241) 30 Aug. 10, 13:28
    Kontext/ Beispiele
    produce - noun

    something produced; yield; esp., fresh fruits and vegetables

    http://www.yourdictionary.com/produce
    Kommentar
    esp. : fresh fruits and vegetables
    #16Verfasserw30 Aug. 10, 20:17
    Kommentar
    Gab es jetzt einen Grund, die Frage nach 5 Jahren wieder auszubuddeln?

    Leo sagt zum Thema aktuell:
    produce das Erzeugnis
    produce Erzeugnis von Grund und Boden
    produce landwirtschaftliche Erzeugnisse Pl.
    produce das Naturprodukt
    produce Obst und Gemüse
    produce das Produkt
    produce der Warenmarkt

    #17VerfasserCJ unplugged31 Aug. 10, 22:21
     
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