Hier ist der Link zu dem oben genannten Faden ;-)

I can help you with the links: unknown_spirit posted the necessary HTML code in this thread

Entry No. 20, btw. ;-)

Grr.. I knew I'd make a mistake somewhere. The link works, though, even if I wanted it to look like Poppidirk's link.
And just so you don't have to scroll through the whole discussion for the instructions on how to make links, it's number 20.

Dragon, Du mußt die eckigen Klammern ][ durch spitze Klammern >< (die sind auf der deutschen Tastatur links neben dem Y) ersetzen.

@Ghol: Du brauchst gar keine HTML-Kenntnisse: einfach die komplette htttp:...-Adresse hereinkopieren, Leo bastelt den Link dann automatisch (wenn auch ohne inhaltliche Benennung)

Schon klar, Poppidirk, beim anderen Link hatte ich es ja auch richtig gemacht ;o)

Um zur eigentlichen Frage zurückzukommen: Ich stimme Ghol zu, aber da aus der verlinkten Diskussion auch hervorgeht, dass manche das "thou" eben doch als förmlich empfinden, müßte man dies auch in irgendeiner Weise ins Wörterbuch aufnehmen, oder?

Just because people feel it is formal, by no means equates it with "Sie". That would be a wrong use of "Sie", merely in an attempt to express formal English in German. Isn't it closer to "Majestät, Ihr seid..."?
I remember a German Lektor at university saying how Germans are "per Du" with God whereas the English use "thou" (King James). I smiled politely as I thought to myself: he hasn't a clue....

Apart from dialect use, which is "Du", I guess "thou" is most commonly used used in a religious context, but I have yet to hear a German address God as "Sie". And with the 10 Commandments, "Thou shalt not kill" for instance, they are usually quoted like that but would usually be translated e.g. "Du sollst nicht töten".

I agree with you and did not mean that it should be equated with "Sie". But maybe it would be possible to add to the entry that it might falsely be used in order to appear more formal, in which case the suitable formal German expression would have to be used. I don't quite know what that entry should look like, though.

Thanks for the HTML help. I will have to try it out immediately (no need to click on the link)

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:

Thou \Thou\, pron. [Sing.: nom. {Thou}; poss. {Thy}or {Thine};
obj. {Thee}. Pl.: nom. {You}; poss. {Your}or {Yours}; obj.
{You}.] [OE. thou, [thorn]u, AS. [eth][=u], [eth]u; akin to
OS. & OFries. thu, G., Dan. & Sw. du, Icel. [thorn][=u],
Goth. [thorn]u, Russ. tui, Ir. & Gael. tu, W. ti, L. tu, Gr.
sy`, Dor. ty`, Skr. tvam. [root]185. Cf. {Thee}, {Thine}, {Te
Deum}.]
The second personal pronoun, in the singular number, denoting
the person addressed; thyself; the pronoun which is used in
addressing persons in the solemn or poetical style.

Art thou he that should come? --Matt. xi. 3.

Note: ``In Old English, generally, thou is the language of a
lord to a servant, of an equal to an equal, and
expresses also companionship, love, permission,
defiance, scorn, threatening: whilst ye is the language
of a servant to a lord, and of compliment, and further
expresses honor, submission, or entreaty.'' --Skeat.

Note: Thou is now sometimes used by the Friends, or Quakers,
in familiar discourse, though most of them corruptly
say thee instead of thou.

Dies zeigt zumindest, dass thou historisch als englisches Gegenst"uck zu du anzusehen ist.

I agree. In the whole period when the word was actually in use, in Middle English and early modern English (say Chaucer to King James), it just meant 'du.'

In the few places where it might still be encountered (old poems, old Bible translations, old-fashioned hymns & prayers), poetic or literary would be a more accurate description than formal. Like some other archaic words, it continued to be used in poetry long after it had disappeared from everyday language.

I didn't take time to search for related forms in LEO, but they should all be handled in the same way:

thee [obs.] / [poet.] - dich, dir
thy [obs.] / [poet.] - dein
thine [obs.] / [poet.] - dein (vor Vokallauten bzw. prädikativ)



OT: Wish we could get rid of the three unnecessarily duplicated entry fields in this section too. They seem to be gone already from Proposed Translation or wherever else it was, thanks for that.

And the order of posts is still not fully reversed here when answering: It goes 1-n, 0.

I think I would include dialect for BE.
AFAIK it is still commonly used in speech in parts of Yorkshire (though it might be pronounced as "tha'" or "th'".
And I would prefer "archaic or church" to "formal".

Can anybody think of any example where "thou" would be equivalent to "Sie"?

From D.H. Lawrence, "Sons And Lovers"

"Like a moudiwarp!" he laughed. "Yi, an' there's some chaps as does go round like moudiwarps." He thrust his face forward in the blind, snout-like way of a mole, seeming to sniff and peer for direction. "They dun though!" he protested naively. "Tha niver seed such a way they get in. But tha mun let me ta'e thee down some time, an' tha can see for thysen."

She looked at him, startled. This was a new tract of life suddenly opened before her. She realised the life of the miners, hundreds of them toiling below earth and coming up at evening. He seemed to her noble. He risked his life daily, and with gaiety. She looked at him, with a touch of appeal in her pure humility.

"Shouldn't ter like it?" he asked tenderly. "'Appen not, it 'ud dirty thee."

She had never been "thee'd" and "thou'd" before.

The next Christmas they were married, and for three months she was perfectly happy: for six months she was very happy

@MikeE: Perhaps this is an example of using "thou" for "Sie"?