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Wrong entry

short-time employment - geringfügige Beschäftigung

16 replies    
Correction

explain, perhaps using "part-time/low-wage employment"

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Examples/ definitions with source references
What is a part-time worker?
A part-time worker is someone who works fewer hours than a full-time worker. There’s no specific number of hours that makes someone full or part-time, but a full-time worker will usually work 35 hours or more a week.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/Employment/Employees...

258,000 google UK hits for "part time employment
19 google UK hits for "short-time employment

Wikipedia:
Das deutsche Recht unterscheidet bei einer geringfügigen Beschäftigung (auch „Minijob“) zwischen der geringfügig entlohnten und der kurzfristigen Beschäftigung.

Eine geringfügige Beschäftigung oder geringfügige selbständige Tätigkeit liegt vor, wenn das Arbeitsentgelt aus dieser Beschäftigung regelmäßig im Monat 400 ¤ nicht übersteigt. Die wöchentliche Arbeitszeit ist unbegrenzt. Ferner liegt eine sog. kurzfristige Beschäftigung vor, wenn die Beschäftigung innerhalb eines Kalenderjahres auf längstens 2 Monate oder 50 Arbeitstage nach ihrer Eigenart begrenzt zu sein pflegt oder im Voraus vertraglich begrenzt ist, es sei denn, dass die Beschäftigung berufsmäßig ausgeübt wird und ihr Entgelt 400 ¤ übersteigt. http://www.stmas.bayern.de/fibel/sf_g010.htm

Comment
"Short-time" employment isn't used, we say part-time employment, and also "geringfügig" can also mean you get a low wage but work full-time.
AuthorCM2DD (236324) 07 Dec 06, 14:54
Context/ examples
Minijob
Geringfügige Beschäftigung, bis 400 Euro abgabenfrei für Arbeitnehmer. Arbeitgeber zahlen einen Pauschalbetrag von 25 Prozent.
http://www.deutschebotschaft-china.org/de/hom...
Comment
@CM2DD: Die geringfügige Beschäftigung (minijob) ist in D ein bestimmter Status der Beschäftigung, der IMHO so in anderen Länder nicht existiert.

IMHO müsste man das unübersetzt lassen und eine Erklärung beifügen.
#1AuthorCJ unplugged07 Dec 06, 15:55
Comment
@CJ - I agree, it's very specific in the number of hours, etc. What do you think of "part-time/low-paid employment as defined in the German Social Code" or something? Does that cover the main implications?
#2AuthorCM2DD (236324) 07 Dec 06, 16:33
Comment
I'm not sure. Part-time sounds so tame. I'm working part-time, i.e. 30 h/week, but, lucky me, a geringfügige Beschäftigung is a far cry off.
How about "petty job with an average pay of 400 ¤ netto per month and reduced social benefits, acording to the German law, see http://www.minijob-zentrale.de/ for details" ?

I'm going home now, have a nice weekend.
#3AuthorCJ unplugged07 Dec 06, 16:55
Comment
I have a problem with part time... as you cited: A part-time worker is someone who works fewer hours than a full-time worker.

This CAN be the same as a geringfuegige Beschaeftigung, but geringfuegige Beschaeftigung covers also students who work full-time for two months in summer. This wouldn't be covered by the description of "part time employment", but rather by short time employement.

How does something such as "an employment, which is either part-time or short-time, with a maximum annual salary of 4800 Euro"

or (in adaption of CJ's proposal):

a part-time or short-time employment with an average pay of 400 ¤ netto per month and reduced social benefits, acording to the German law, see http://www.minijob-zentrale.de/ for details
#4AuthorHein -de- (236231) 07 Dec 06, 18:25
Suggestions

[temporary, part-time or low-paid full-time employment; maximum annual salary of 4800 Euro]

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Comment
Not "short-time", which is not used, but short-term or temporary employment.

19 google UK hits for "short-time employment (about Norway, Germany ...)
19,600 for "short-term employment.
145,000 for "temporary employment.

As I understand it, a GB can be one of three things:

1. a "geringfügig entlohnte B." (low-paid employment)
- this could be a full-time job which is semi-voluntary and pays very little. See quote (above): Die wöchentliche Arbeitszeit ist unbegrenzt. "

2. a "kurzfristige B.", which can be
a) part-time,
or b) short-term
innerhalb eines Kalenderjahres auf längstens 2 Monate oder 50 Arbeitstage)

"Petty" would mean the job was unimportant and trivial.
#5AuthorCM2DD (236324) 07 Dec 06, 20:59
Comment
A lot of those Minijobs are offered by private employers (housecleaning, childcare, ...), though some companies - again cleaning services, amougnst them - replaced some of their full-time or part-time workers by Minijobbers.

The Minijobs may be just a few hours of full time, but do not confuse them with 1 Euro jobs, which are so-called additional or voluntary work which is offered to people who collect HARTZ IV unemployment benefits.

For real voluntary work, there is the "Trainerpauschale" on your tax return form.
#6AuthorCJ unplugged07 Dec 06, 21:59
Comment
Sorry for the the short-time... I didn't get your point that you critisized the "-time" and not the "short-". :))

temporary or short-term is both fine with me. Mir war es nur wichtig, dass die "geringfuegige Beschaeftigung" nicht auf Teilzeitarbeit beschraenkt wird. Damit Unterstuetzung fuer den letzten Aenderungsvorschlag.
#7AuthorHein -de- (236231) 07 Dec 06, 22:33
Comment
Maybe

[temporary, part-time or *extremly* low-paid full-time employment; maximum annual salary of 4800 Euro] ?

If its a full time job, you are working for 2,4 Euro/hour which in most west european countries would be considered below minimal wage (if they have one).
#8AuthorCJ unplugged11 Dec 06, 08:50
Comment
Die Idee war, mit aufzunehmen, dass es eigentlich keine Begrenzung auf die Arbeitszeit, sondern nur auf den Lohn gibt. Es generell mit part-time zu uebersetzen, waere daher eigentlich falsch.

Andererseits gebe ich dir recht, dass eine Vollzeitbeschaeftigung fuer 400 Euro im Monat (hoffentlich) so selten ist, dass wir sie vielleicht einfach ignorieren koennen.

Wie waere es dann mit:

[temporary or part-time employment with a maximum annual salary of 4800 Euro] ?
#9AuthorHein -de- (236231) 11 Dec 06, 19:46
Comment
If the question is about the English translation, "short-time" is not used, at least in the US.

"Part-time" denotes less than 40 hrs/wk generally, though it may be interpreted as less than 35 in some areas, but it does not indicate the duration of the job.

"Short-term" indicates that the job is of limited duration, be it days, weeks, or months, but is not open-ended employment. It does not imply that it is part-time at all, only that it is for a limited, usually specific, period of time.

A "temporary job", from the perspective of the employer, is one where the temporary employee may be filling in for someone who is sick, or could be a short-term job for a specific task. From an employee's perspective, it could be a full-time open-ended job, but not one the employee is interested in keeping, but is only kept until they can find something better.

"McJob", though a recently-coined term, implies a trivial job, not necessarily part-time, not necessarily short-term, but one that requires no real skills, has little future, usually doesn't pay well, and again, is usually only kept until something better comes along. This seems to be the closest to "geringfügige Beschäftigung" in my mind, though it's a new term to me.
#10AuthorAlanGeek21 Dec 06, 07:31
Comment
McJob" ... implies a trivial job, not necessarily part-time, not necessarily short-term, but one that requires no real skills, has little future, usually doesn't pay well, and again, is usually only kept until something better comes along.

But a "geringfügige Beschäftigung" is an official term with a very specific meaning (temporary, part-time or low-paid full-time employment; maximum annual salary of 4800 Euro) used by the government, job centres, tax office, etc. so the register and connotations are not the same as a "McJob".

wikipedia:
McJob is slang for a low-paying, low-prestige job that requires few skills and offers very little chance of intracompany advancement
McJob ist eine Pejoration auf Arbeitsplätze im Niedriglohnbereich; der Begriff stammt aus dem "Lexikon einer neuen Arbeitsgesellschaft" aus dem Roman "Generation X" von Douglas Coupland
#11AuthorCM2DD (236324) 21 Dec 06, 09:42
Suggestions

marginal employment, marginally employed

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geringfügige Beschäftigung, geringfügig Beschäftigte



Context/ examples
Comment
In Germany, it can be distinguished between those part-time workers who are subject to social insurance contribution and those who are “marginally employed” (geringfuegig beschaeftigt).
#12Authorsepja22 Jan 09, 14:45
Context/ examples
Encyclopedia of Sociology:
"Marginal employment can be conceptually defined as the circumstance in which the formal employment of adults (or groups of adults within families) fails to generate the earnings needed to achieve a minimally acceptable standard of living, either because they work too few hours (insufficient labor supply), and/or because their wages are too low."
http://www.bookrags.com/research/marginal-emp...

"Marginal employment is a type of wage subsidy paid to unemployed workers and they do not lose their unemployment benefits if the wage is below a certain threshold."
http://ideas.repec.org/p/iza/izadps/dp2221.html (by German native speakers)

"Does Unstable Employment Predict Health? Marginal Employment in Germany and the United Kingdom"
http://apha.confex.com/apha/128am/techprogram...
Comment
Looks like sepja is on to something! :-)
Supported. (sepja's proposal)
#13Authororeg (353563) 23 Jan 09, 09:41
Suggestions

insignificant employment

[law] -

geringfügige Beschäftigung



Comment
Im juristischen Bereich dürfte sich die "geringfügige Beschäftigung" am besten mit "insignificant employment" übersetzen lassen.
#14Authorssan20 Feb 09, 11:46
Comment
Don't confuse short-term and short time! They are 2 compeltely different things to me, at least as a BE speaker.
Short-term = temporary / zeitlich befristet;
short time = Kurzarbeit.
#15AuthorHelen21 Feb 09, 11:28
Comment
completely, of course!
#16AuthorHelen21 Feb 09, 11:29
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