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    Neuer Eintrag für LEO

    lastinglessness - Mangel an Dauerhaftigkeit

    Neuer Eintrag

    lastinglessness - Mangel an Dauerhaftigkeit

    Quellen
    Leo's entry for lastingness as a translation for Dauerhaftigkeit
    Kommentar
    If we translate Dauerhaftigkeit as lastingness, then we must concede that lastinglessness is a legitimate expression for a lack of lastingness.
    Verfassermgc21 Jun. 06, 04:27
    Kommentar
    love it....

    but - if at all, it should, imo, be: "lastingnessless"
    what you are suggesting is somewhat different.

    oh, and a couple of sources would have been nice...
    #1Verfasserodondon irl21 Jun. 06, 06:41
    Kommentar
    Please help me understand the difference between lastinglessness and lastingnessless; a lack of care is carelessness, a lack of lastingness would be lastingnesslessness ?

    I also propose correcting the German translation of it to from Mangel an Dauerhaftigkeit to Dauerhaftiglosigkeit.
    Now, we don't want to knock creative new words, do we?
    #2Verfassermgc21 Jun. 06, 06:51
    Kommentar
    Not supported.

    cf. use n. and useless adj.
    So lastingness n. yields lastingnessless adj., which would not be a suitably nominal translation of "Mangel an Dauerhaftigkeit". Logically that would be lastingnesslessness, I believe.
    #3VerfasserAmy-MiMi21 Jun. 06, 06:55
    Kommentar
    Example:
    The sum of all individual transient human experience cannot alter the lastingnessless of mankind's fate as a whole.
    (For those who like it metaphysical....)
    #4Verfassermgc21 Jun. 06, 07:06
    Kommentar
    is one's fate something that can last?
    isn't fate a given, unchangeable, entity, and therefore outside the bounds of time?
    wouldn't it be closer to say that mankind itself is possessed of lastingnessless?

    curiouser and curiouser...

    :o)
    #5Verfasserodondon irl21 Jun. 06, 07:16
    Kommentar
    dauerhaftigkeit?
    1 minute
    1 hour
    1 day
    1 year
    1 lifetime - and how long is that: 7 years depending on behaviour?
    #6Verfassernoli21 Jun. 06, 07:27
    Kommentar
    Mankind's fate is indeed sealed (and thus permanent): mankind's fate is that it will not last for eternity. Thus mankind's fate is lastinglessness.
    All individual lives lived over the course of ages cannot change that fact.
    Here the sum of the whole is not greater than its parts: something that is made up of individual transient experiences cannot itself be enduring. (At least not for ever.)
    Lastingnessless is our collective fate, I'm afraid.
    #7Verfassermgc21 Jun. 06, 07:28
    Vorschläge

    unlastingness

    -

    Dauerlosigkeit



    Kommentar
    ... would be a closer equivalent, wouldn't it?

    Formation:
    careful is the opposite of careless
    carefulness is the opposite of carelessness
    lasting is the opposite of unlasting Siehe Wörterbuch: unlasting
    lastingness is the opposite of unlastingness

      related discussion:venting my anger
    #8VerfasserArchfarchnad -gb-21 Jun. 06, 07:34
    Vorschläge

    lastinglessness

    -

    Dauerloshaftigkeit



    lastinglessness

    -

    Dauerhaftlosigkeit



    Kommentar
    just an idea
    #9VerfasserI Deer21 Jun. 06, 08:03
    Kommentar
    Definitely _not_ supported.

    a) no references given
    b) no google hits
    c) not even a usage example.

    Is this entry some april fools' joke?

    BTW I also consider the entry "unlasting" to be wrong.
    #10Verfasseryx21 Jun. 06, 09:28
    Kommentar
    No, this is not a joke. I am taking the fact very seriously that several contributors insist that we do not delete "lastingness" (an absurdly empty expression; all of the suggested synonyms are far superior). If we keep lastingness, then we must (see above) agree that lastingnessless is an equally valid, grammatically correct expression.

    "Lastingness" is empty, because it tells us merely that something lasts and lasts, like a Duracell. The other suggestions (persistence, tenacity... etc.) tell us a little something more - about why or how something continues to last. Using "lastingness" is being a little lazy.. i.m.o. But okay, if you want lasingness, you have to take lastingnessless, too.

    For all those who want sources: here it is. This page. Here you find the word lastingnessless - several times. That is as much proof as if it were on the front page of the New York Times. Or are print media superior to e-media?
    And besides that, if you doggedly insist on such sources, you will jeopardize precisely what most of the others in the related thread see threatened: the right to create new words.
    I hereby exercise this right: I have created lastingnessless. I have quoted my source: this site. That's the best I can do.
    (Sorry ck. You cannot deny me my right to abuse words!)
    #11Verfassermgc21 Jun. 06, 09:50
    Kommentar
    Solange du die Aufnahme dieses Wortes nicht forcen willst ;-)

    Du darfst alles kreieren, was du willst.
    Aber selbst kreierte Wörter habe hier nichts zu suchen.
    Und deine Referenz-Quellen sind nicht zuverlässig.

    Und wer sagt, dass man das Gegenteil so bilden soll? Wo gibt es andere "-ness"-Wörter, bei denen das Gegenteil so gebildet wird?
    Etwa kindness <> kindlessness???? Ich meine eher nicht :-)
    #12VerfasserMr Deer 21 Jun. 06, 12:21
    Kommentar
    Thank you, I Deer.
    Your suggestion explains the absurdity of all possible translations:


    Dauerloshaftigkeit: Die Eigenschaft eines Dauerloses (beispielsweise der Fernsehlotterie), an etwas zu haften.

    Dauerhaftlosigkeit (Dauer-Haftlosigkeit): Die (wahrscheinlich unerwünschte) Eigenschaft (etwa eines Magneten oder Streifen Tesa-Films), an etwas NICHT zu haften. Oder aber die wünschenswerte Eigenschaft, von einem Gefängnisaufenthalt anhaltend verschont zu bleiben.

    LOL!!!
    #13VerfasserJobst21 Jun. 06, 12:24
    Kommentar
    @jobst: ich liebe es™ ;-)
    #14VerfasserMr I Deer 21 Jun. 06, 12:47
    Kommentar
    > If we keep lastingness, then we must (see above) agree that lastingnessless is an equally valid, grammatically correct expression.

    Absolut nicht. Genauso könntest du argumentieren: "Wenn wir Schraubenzieher in LEO eintragen, dann müssen wir auch Schraubendrücker eintragen."

    Nicht logische Induktion ist die Grundlage von Einträgen in LEO, sondern tatsächliche Nutzung. Ich keinen einzigen Google-Treffer, geschweige denn Wörterbucheinträge für "lastiglessness" finden, für "lastingness" hingegen fast 40.000, dazu zahlreiche Wörterbucheinträge: http://www.onelook.com/?w=lastingness&ls=a
    #15VerfasserSophil21 Jun. 06, 12:54
    Kommentar
    Please see related discussion for an explanation!
    #16VerfasserArchfarchnad -gb-21 Jun. 06, 13:11
    Kommentar
    Und ein weiterer Beitrag, der sich voellig auf ein gloreiches "Ich bin Muttersprachler." stuetzt.

    Einer der schoensten Vorteile an LEO ist, dass ich hier Uebersetzungen fuer Woerter finde, die **nicht** jedem Durchschnittsmenschen gelaeufig sind. Der passive Wortschatz eines gebildeten Menschen liegt bei ca. 50.000 Woertern, gerade mal ein Viertel des deutschen, geschweige denn des englischen Wortschatzes. Und dies schliesst veraltete Begriffe nicht einmal ein. Und wenn mgc vorschlaegt, einen in der englischen Literatur verwendeten Begriff (siehe den vom ihm zitierten Faden) mit der Begruendung "an absurdly empty expression; all of the suggested synonyms are far superior", dann schiesst er sich selbst gleich einmal aus der "gebildet"-Gruppe heraus.

    Darum: Die Tatsache, dass du das Wort nicht kennst, nicht verwendest und laecherlich findest, interessiert niemand wirklich. Es ist oder war in Gebrauch und ich bin dankbar, wenn mir LEO eine Uebersetzung dafuer anbietet, **besonders** wenn es ungebraeuchlich ist. Wenn "Dauerhaftigkeit" nicht die beste Uebersetzung ist, dann kann man dies ernsthaft diskutieren und Verbesserungsvorschlaege fuer die **deutsche** Seite bringen. Aber ich sehe nicht ein, warum man LEO auf mgc's Kenntnisstand der englischen Sprache reduzieren sollte.
    #17VerfasserHein -de-22 Jun. 06, 03:24
    Kommentar
    Da habe ich doch vor "dann schiesst" ein "zu loeschen" geloescht. :)
    #18VerfasserHein -de-22 Jun. 06, 03:27
    Kommentar
    Hein, eigentlich habe ich gedacht daß mgc das alles ironisch meint.
    #19Verfasserholger22 Jun. 06, 04:15
    Kommentar
    > several contributors insist that we do not delete "lastingness"

    Just out of curiosity, is that sentence actually grammatical in British English?
    #20VerfasserThomasJ22 Jun. 06, 05:39
    Kommentar
    @ThomasJ: BE or AE, it should be 'that we not delete.' A non-subjunctive alternative, especially useful in BE, would be 'that we should not delete.'

    @holger: Of course he or she meant it ironically, but we don't have to laugh if we don't think it was really very funny, do we? Or if we just resent the waste of time in a week when the LEO team obviously has more crucial things to think about (like just keeping the forum running, more or less).

    In general: This is all starting to look more and more like sheer trollishness. (Shall we add that one while we're at it? (-; ) If Doris had time to compare IP addresses, we might find that tmx/mgc/??? is not, on the face of it, particularly trustworthy. Once again, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who appears out of nowhere and seems to have nothing but criticism to offer.
    #21Verfasserhm -- us22 Jun. 06, 06:48
    Kommentar
    @Mr Deer
    was? wie bitte? meine Referenzquellen sind NICHT ZUVERLÄSSIG? Leo ist nicht zuverlässig? Gerade darum ging es im anderen Thread..... dass Leute Leo als Referenz angeben.... hilarious!
    #22Verfassermgc22 Jun. 06, 07:14
    Kommentar
    @Sophil
    I will write a philosophical paper this afternoon on lastingnessless and publish it on the site of a reputable German university's institute for philosophy. Thereafter you will be able to google "lastinglessness" and find it used in all seriousness. The French philosophers do this all the time! (And believe me, it IS in my power to do so!)
    You will get what you want before the day is done.
    #23Verfassermgc22 Jun. 06, 07:19
    Kommentar
    mgc, tu, was du nicht lassen kannst. Aber Google ist nicht das Maß aller Dinge, und du wirst viele philiosophical papers veröffentlichen müssen, um es bis ins Merriam-Webster's zu schaffen.
    #24VerfasserSophil22 Jun. 06, 08:58
    Vorschläge

    lastinlessnesslessness

    -

    dauerhaftigkeitsmangellos



    lastinlessnessl

    -

    Mangel an Dauerhafigkeit



    Kommentar
    usw.
    usw.
    usw.
    #25Verfasseraseas22 Jun. 06, 09:06
    Kommentar
    werfe noch 2 g und 1 t hinterher
    #26Verfasseraseas22 Jun. 06, 09:08
    Kommentar
    @mgc: enough of this seriouslessness
    #27VerfasserJoseph King22 Jun. 06, 09:13
    Kommentar
    @mgc/tmx: ich kann's nachvollziehen, daß du frustriert und verärgert über Kunden bist, die meinen, sie wüßten's besser nur weil's so in LEO steht (oder Langenscheidt oder sonstwo ...). Ich kann aber nicht nachvollziehen, daß du den Frust nun an "uns" ausläßt :-( Aber sei's drum. Ich für meinen Teil verlasse diese Diskussion wieder, ich habe nämlich in der Tat noch einen ganzen Berg anderer Probleme zu bearbeiten.

    @all: ich schlage vor, lastingness auf der engl. Seite mit [form.][poet.] o.ä. auszuzeichnen -- andere Meinungen?
    #28VerfasserDoris (LEO-Team)22 Jun. 06, 09:59
    Kommentar
    [poet.] scheint mir nach alldem, was ich über dieses Wort jetzt weiß, angebracht.
    #29VerfasserSophil22 Jun. 06, 10:23
    Kommentar
    i think poetic is about right.

    much of the marketing talk, especially cosmetics, is sheer poetry... wonderful constructs of the imagination...

    Seriousness is an accident of time. It consists in putting too high a value on time. In eternity there is no time. Eternity is a mere moment, just long enough for a joke. Herman Hesse (1877 - 1962)
    #30Verfassernoli22 Jun. 06, 10:53
    Vorschläge

    lastingless seriouslessness

    -

    dauerhaftlose Ernstlosigkeit



    Kommentar
    oder so?
    #31Verfasseraseas22 Jun. 06, 11:02
    Kommentar
    is das ein ewiger witz?
    #32Verfassernoli22 Jun. 06, 11:16
    Kommentar
    @DORIS (Leo Team)
    RE: [poetic] for lastingness
    Yes! The perfect solution.
    I am relieved, pleased, and grateful and wish tmx and I had come up with it!
    Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Now we too can return to our respective more important tasks.
    #33Verfassermgc22 Jun. 06, 13:07
    Kommentar
    @mgc: Why do you insist on mocking the word "lastingness" just because you have never heard it before and can't imagine its use? Are you the highest authority on the English language? Is your vocabulary the pinnacle of all English vocabularies? Are you the poet laureate (allowing you alone to decide what others may consider poetic or not)?
    Nobody knows all of the words in their own language. But if you read a certian word in a book, and the unknown word is used in the right context, you will not only understand what it means, but you will not question its validity as an English word or its right to exist. And therefore you will not even notice this word, as it will not strike you as unusual when used in a meaningful and appropriate way.
    #34VerfasserMary (nz/A)22 Jun. 06, 19:35
    Kommentar
    Mary,
    you've confused various positions of several different participants from a few independent discussions. Please re-read the threads and you will see that I did not do or say what you claim I do and say. Take it easy and look at the bright side of life, ok? You'll feel better and the rest of us will, too.
    #35Verfassermgc22 Jun. 06, 21:53
    Kommentar
    mgc --- I don't think these (non-independant) threads are worth re-reading. And as far as I remember Mary did not confuse anything. With a little less arrogance such discussions would be much less annoying.
    #36Verfasserholger23 Jun. 06, 03:11
    Kommentar
    [non-independent with 3 e]
    #37Verfasserholger23 Jun. 06, 03:12
    Kommentar
    holger,
    I tried to put it kindly, and now you confuse politeness with arrogance. As josh says, you just can't win with these people. It's a hopeless bunch.
    #38Verfassermgc23 Jun. 06, 04:28
    Kommentar
    Thu Jun 22 14:07:19 2006:
    "I am relieved, pleased, and grateful and wish tmx and I had come up with it!
    Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Now we too can return to our respective more important tasks."

    Thu Jun 22 22:53:43 2006:
    "Take it easy and look at the bright side of life, ok? You'll feel better and the rest of us will, too."

    Fri Jun 23 05:28:39 2006:
    "... and now you confuse politeness with arrogance. As josh says, you just can't win with these people. It's a hopeless bunch."

    Und damit willkommen auf meiner Ignorierliste. Don't feed the trolls.
    #39VerfasserHein -de-23 Jun. 06, 07:41
     
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