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  • Betrifft

    a/an vor "U" am Wortanfang

    Kommentar
    Hallo! Ich hab leider nix passendes gefunden...
    Mein Kollege hatte gerade einen englischen Brief zu schreiben, wo irgendetwas ukrainisches vorkam. Da hat er die Frage in den Raum gestellt, ob es jetzt a/an Ukrainian citizen heißt. Er hat irgendwo gehört, dass vor einem U (also eigentlich ju) Anlaut kein an sondern a steht. Kann das jemand bestätigen oder widerlegen, begründet?
    Vielen Dank schon mal
    Verfasserwawamama17 Nov. 08, 17:44
    Kommentar
    http://www.dailywritingtips.com/using-a-and-a...

    The rule states that “a” should be used before words that begin with consonants (e.g., b, c ,d) while “an” should be used before words that begin with vowels (e.g., a,e,i). Notice, however, that the usage is determined by the pronunciation and not by the spelling, as many people wrongly assume.

    You should say, therefore, “an hour” (because hour begins with a vowel sound) and “a history” (because history begins with a consonant sound).

    Similarly you should say “a union” even if union begins with a “u.” That is because the pronunciation begins with “yu”, which is a consonant sound.

    #1Verfasserlaalaa (238508) 17 Nov. 08, 17:48
    Kommentar
    Thank you for your quick answer!

    Kann man verallgemeinern, dass jedes Wort, das mit "U" anfängt immer nur "a" davor hat, weil der Laut ja "JU" ist?
    #2Verfasserwawamama17 Nov. 08, 17:51
    Kommentar
    nope, think of all the un- words

    an uninformed commentator
    an ulterior motive

    sorry, you'll just have to learn the pronunciation :(
    #3Verfasserlaalaa (238508) 17 Nov. 08, 17:54
    Kommentar
    Here we go again...

    Siehe auch: Kann mein Englischlehrer kein Englisch? - Nut... , vor allem die Links:
    Siehe auch: Kann mein Englischlehrer kein Englisch? - Nut... - #11

    Es gibt bestimmt noch viel mehr Threads zu diesem Thema...

    Der Laut ist übrigens nicht immer gleich. Bei "under", "upset", "usher" etc. ist keine Spur von einem "Ju".
    #4Verfasser Dragon (238202) 17 Nov. 08, 17:54
    Kommentar
    Stimmt, die Verallgemeinerung war auf die Schnelle natürlich zu schnell und allgemein. Danke für die Antworten
    #5Verfasserwawamama17 Nov. 08, 18:40
    Kommentar
    Some people do say "an history" because the "h" is left off in their pronunciation. I think older American speakers do, and I see it in older books. Maybe some British speakers use it? But in AE, "a history" is standard.
    #6VerfasserStrawberry17 Nov. 08, 19:00
    Kommentar
    @Strawberry: With "history", "a" is much more common than "an", AFAIK. For example, I'd say "a history of the English". "historic" is a bit more difficult, as many people drop the aitch and say "an 'istoric event". I'm sure that was covered in one of the older threads.
    Similarly, in AE the aitch is dropped in the word "herb", or so I'm told, so that where I would say "parsley is a herb", some people would say "parsley is an 'erb".
    #7Verfasser Dragon (238202) 18 Nov. 08, 09:00
    Kommentar
    But, Dragon, this sounds a little bit french... ;o)
    #8VerfasserVH18 Nov. 08, 09:13
    Kommentar
    @VH: Can't be 'elped ;o))
    #9Verfasser Dragon (238202) 18 Nov. 08, 09:16
    Kommentar
    The use of 'an' before words beginning with 'h' is not quite as Dragon describes it. It did use to be considered correct to write "an hotel", and "an historical event" etc., but not due to people 'dropping their aitches' (which is, of course, precisely the opposite of what educated people would do - that is a feature of working-class accents, such as Cockney), but to linguistic considerations.

    The reason for this was, I believe, to do with 'h' not being considered a full consonant, but only an aspiration before a vowel. Thus the rule for the vowel was applied.

    The AE pronunciation of herb as 'erb' is a different matter again.
    #10VerfasserMary nz/a (431018) 18 Nov. 08, 10:08
    Kommentar
    They didn't drop the "h" like Cockneys, but it's true that they didn't pronounce it - and if you are going to say "an historic event" today, then only if you don't say the "h" as in "house". "An HHistorical event" with the "h" pronounced might sound like you are a Cockney trying to be posh :-)

    Some speakers do not pronounce the ‘h’ at the beginning of historic and use ‘an’ instead of ‘a’ before it. This now sounds old-fashioned.
    ©Oxford University Press, 2005

    "The form an for the indefinite article is used before a spoken vowel sound, regardless of how the written word is spelt. If you say 'an otel' when speaking (which is now often regarded as distinctly old-fashioned), then it may be appropriate for you to write 'an hotel'; but most people say 'hotel' with a sounded 'h', and should write 'a hotel'." http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/ab...
    #11Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 18 Nov. 08, 10:22
    Kommentar
    In bezug auf a/an history gab es kürzlich einen interessanten Blogeintrag von Editrix:
    http://www.editrix.us/

    Eine ganz eindeutige Antwort scheint es darauf nicht zu geben.
    #12Verfasserhelga_hh unplugged18 Nov. 08, 10:45
    Kommentar
    Maybe Editrix should have asked Oxford or a dictionary rather than her boyfriend.
    In the USA, as I understand it, people usually pronounce the "h" in "historic", so rarely need to say "an historic". In Britain, more people still pronounce "historic" or "hotel" without the "h".
    #13Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 18 Nov. 08, 10:49
    Kommentar
    CMDD: What about the people who pronounce "huge" as "yooge"? Or insist on calling Hugh Grant "You grant"? I notice Austrians in particular doing this (then one also hears "yooge grunt" for the actor). Are they taught that this is British English (the "only proper English"?)
    #14VerfasserMary nz/a (431018) 18 Nov. 08, 10:54
    Kommentar
    Alas, I have only ever been to Austria twice, so can't comment on how they are taught the word "Hugh" in school. Most likely they are just guessing, like with the pronunciation "Iron" for "Ian" :-)
    Usually the words with the "h" not pronounced are French in origin, and "huge" is apparently related to an Old French word ahuge, so you might have some grounds for saying it that way! The OUP doesn't say that people do, though. I've always thought of that as a slightly American trait, myself. Doesn't Lloyd Grossman say it? He's at least half American.
    #15Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 18 Nov. 08, 11:03
    Kommentar
    OT: Wie wird das "Hugh" den richtig ausgesprochen?
    #16VerfasserBacon [de] (264333) 18 Nov. 08, 11:05
    Kommentar
    @Bacon: Hugh wird "Hyoo" ausgesprochen. (Are you also guilty of calling him "huge grunt"?) ;-)
    #17VerfasserMary nz/a (431018) 18 Nov. 08, 11:08
    Kommentar
    Nein, eher "(h)yuh gränt" mit einem kaum hörbaren "h" am Anfang (und dem steten, doch meist vergeblichen Bemühen um das "open a" in "gränt") ;-)
    #18VerfasserBacon [de] (264333) 18 Nov. 08, 11:09
    Kommentar
    @Bacon: 1: the h in Hugh is pronounced. The gh at the end is not. 2. The vowel in "Grant" (as in the verb of the same spelling) is not an "open short a" as in cat (your "ä"), but an "ah" sound as in "father".
    #19VerfasserMary nz/a (431018) 18 Nov. 08, 11:15
    Kommentar
    Bacon, you can - and should - happily huff out the H at the start of Hugh as loudly as you like. In many accents it even sounds almost like the "ch" in "ich" (not that I can distinguish the chs very well in speech...).
    #20Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 18 Nov. 08, 11:17
    Kommentar
    Ah, thanks! Names can really be a pain in the lower backside (just as my real last name is ...)
    #21VerfasserBacon [de] (264333) 18 Nov. 08, 11:17
    Kommentar
    Surely your last name is "Anchips"?
    I got the right "ch":
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_palata...
    hue [çjuː]
    #22Verfasser CM2DD (236324) 18 Nov. 08, 11:20
    Kommentar
    No, not even close ;-) It's a combination of "short consonants" and "long consonants" which seems to make it excruciatingly difficult especially for people from South Germany ;-)
    #23VerfasserBacon [de] (264333) 18 Nov. 08, 11:21
    Kommentar
    Ich benutze den Namne "Hugh" eigentlich immer dann, wenn ich Englisch-Sprechern "beweisen" will, dass sie deutsche Wörter wie "nicht" und "Richtfest" aussprechen können. Das H am Anfang ist ja ein [ç]-Laut, vielleicht mit etwas weniger Druck als im Deutschen.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_palata...
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimmloser_palat...
    #24Verfasser GuggstDu (427193) 18 Nov. 08, 11:26
    Kommentar
    *F5*
    Ah, OK. Schneller tippen... :-)
    #25Verfasser GuggstDu (427193) 18 Nov. 08, 11:27
     
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