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    staff - mit oder ohne Artikel

    Topic

    staff - mit oder ohne Artikel

    Comment
    z. B. in Sätzen wie

    "wir halten das Personal für qualifiziert" - we consider (the?) staff as qualified"

    "Das Pflegepersonal weiß, dass..." - (the?) care staff knows..."

    "aus der Sicht des Personals - from the point of view of (the) staff.




    AuthorMartina25 Apr 06, 11:11
    Comment
    I would always use the article "the" in your written examples and can't think of any example where you would use staff without "the".
    #1Authorchris25 Apr 06, 11:16
    Comment
    I often (but not always) saw it without article, that's why...
    #2AuthorMartina25 Apr 06, 11:30
    Comment
    @Chris: You can't think of examples, where staff is used without article? Just have a look at the 5.3 million Google hits for "by staff" and "with staff"!

    http://www.google.de/search?num=50&hl=de&as_q..."by+staff"+OR+"with+staff"+site:uk+&meta=
    #3AuthorBettina25 Apr 06, 11:36
    Comment
    Could you give an example of where you have seen it without the article?
    #4Authorchris25 Apr 06, 11:36
    Comment
    In fact, it is used without article all the time:

    www.vts.rdn.ac.uk/case_studies/cs_staff_dev.html
    www.startups.co.uk/Staff_theft.c5HV6pRojdegVw.html
    www.civictrust.org.uk/about/officers.shtml
    #5AuthorBettina25 Apr 06, 11:39
    Comment
    @Bettina
    yes, you are right about the examples of staff being used without article.
    What do you mean that it is "always" used without article?
    Check http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q="the+staff"&meta=

    Wouldn't you use "the" in Martina's examples?
    #6Authorchris25 Apr 06, 11:43
    Comment
    @chris: I didn't say "always", but "all the time", which means "very often". I have a feeling that the use of the definite article is a matter of taste, but I leave it to the native speakers to comment on that. In two of Martina's examples I would use it, in the third I wouldn't. Anyway, I tend to use the plural, which is more common than the singular:

    We consider the staff are qualified.
    The care staff know ...
    From the point of view of staff
    #7AuthorBettina25 Apr 06, 13:14
    Comment
    So, is it just a matter of taste? Sometimes it feels wrong with article, sometimes I'm not sure. Anyway, I can't make out any rule.

    Native Speakers????



    about the number: according to Pons, both Sg. and Pl. can be used.
    #8AuthorMartina26 Apr 06, 08:00
    Comment
    From http://www.economist.com/research/styleGuide/...

    There is no firm rule about the number of a verb governed by a singular collective noun. It is best to go by the sense—that is, whether the collective noun stands for a single entity (The council was elected in March, The me generation has run its course, The staff is loyal) or for its constituents: (The council are at sixes and sevens, The preceding generation are all dead, The staff are at each other's throats).

    #9AuthorMartina26 Apr 06, 08:08
    Comment
    @Martina: The style guideline you quoted might also cover the use of the article:

    single entity --> no article
    constituents --> article

    This would coincide with how I used it by instinct in the above three examples.
    #10AuthorBettina26 Apr 06, 08:18
    Comment
    Bettina: Ja, ich glaube, langsam beginne ich die Zusammenhänge zu erahnen. Gerade fand ich noch einen Hinweis im I-net, dass "staff" im allg. Sinn ohne Artikel benutzt wird, im speziellen Sinn mit Artikel. Das passt zu der o.g. Sg./Pl. Verwendung.

    #11AuthorMartina26 Apr 06, 08:31
    Comment
    It works like a normal noun.

    The people are here = certain, specified people.
    The boys loved your present = certain, specified boys.
    The hospital staff sent her a birthday card = the specific staff in a specific hospital
    People love talking = people in general.
    Boys love presents = all boys.
    Hospital staff work very hard = all hospital workers in general.

    We often leave out "the" in newspaper headlines or titles and in notes (we also leave out "a" and other things like modal verbs):
    HOSPITAL STAFF GO ON STRIKE
    Remember to pay staff overtime!

    In your examples I'd also use "the" as you are talking (presumably) about the specific staff in a certain place.

    #12AuthorArchfarchnad -gb-26 Apr 06, 08:43
     
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