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  • Source Language Term

    Polizei

    Correct?

    police is/are

    Comment
    the police are searching / search a man?

    Is this correct, not police is?
    AuthorWalter15 May 06, 19:21
    Comment
    ja ist korrekt, police ist im englischen plural, darum are...
    #1Author11015 May 06, 19:25
    Comment
    Das ist schon mehrfach kommentiert worden. Ich erinnere mich an eine Diskussion ob es denn "The US are" oder "The US is" heisst.

    Bottom line:

    AE: Singular
    BE, aber zunehmend unüblicher werdend: plural.

    Ich würde "the police is" sagen.
    #2AuthorFloFloUSA15 May 06, 19:38
    Comment
    walter,

    ich glaube du kannst floflo glauben:

    in BE ist "police are" correct, aber "police is" ist auf dem vormarsch. aber damit kannst du dich nicht bei einem englischlehrer rausreden, weder in england noch in deutschland.
    #3Authorpeter h. s.15 May 06, 22:03
    Comment
    walter,

    und beinahe hätte ich es vergessen:

    in deinem beispiel muss es wahrscheinlich : are searching for /search for heißen.

    to search plus dir.obj. heißt: durchsuchen und da macht die simple tense - jedenfalls in deinem beispiel - wenig sinn.
    #4Authorpeter h. s.15 May 06, 22:15
    Comment
    @Walter: und der Artikel fällt auch weg "police are/is searching for a man" (fahndet nach einem Mann)

    @FloFloUSA: Wenn ich mich recht erinnere, hat odondon irl in der Diskussion
    related discussion keinen BE-AE Unterschied gesehen, sondern lediglich einen unterschiedlichen Standpunkt des Sprechers: steht die Polizei als Apparat (police force) im Vordergrund --> Einzahl, steht die Polizei als Vielzahl agierender Menschen (police officers) im Vordergrund --> Mehrzahl. Das würde in Walters Beispiel für die Mehrzahl sprechen, in folgenden für die Einzahl:

    Police is currently underrepresented by females
    Tayside Police is inviting motorcyclists to become safer bikers
    Police has a wealth of expertise on preventing fraud
    #5AuthorAndi (AT)15 May 06, 23:33
    Comment
    @ Andi: for me there's a slight change of meaning when you leave out the 'the'.

    Police are searching for a man = individual police officers (I'd never say 'police is searching for...' without the 'the')
    The police are searching for a man = the organisation

    I've never heard anyone say 'Police is underrepresented' or 'Police has a wealth of expertise' without the 'the'.
     
    I'd use 'are' in the examples you've given -

    The police are underrepresented in many rural areas.
    Tayside Police are advising vehicle owners... - the Tayside Police site you quoted uses both 'is' and 'are'
    The police have a wide range of powers... (Home Office website)

    Other singular nouns I'd use with a plural verb:
    The team aren't playing well at the moment
    Ford don't make that model any more
    #6AuthorMaisie (UK)16 May 06, 00:49
    Comment
    ...although the two examples with Ford and "the team" sound dreadful to my ears with plural verbs :) sorry.. just telling the truth... i may be wrong :)
    #7AuthorOpossum16 May 06, 01:35
    Corrections

    -

    -

    the police are



    Comment
    Sorry, but for the nth time, and just to support Maisie, who is apparently the only native English speaker who has posted so far in this thread, THE WORD 'POLICE' IS PLURAL.

    In fact, I believe I patiently explained this very point just a couple of days ago in another thread which I can't find at the moment. If someone remembers and could post the link, that would be great.

    Once again: You will never be wrong if you always use a plural verb with 'the police.'

    These sentences, with 'police' alone and no article, are simply wrong:

    >>Police *is currently underrepresented by females
    >>Police *has a wealth of expertise on preventing fraud

    I also agree with Maisie about 'the':

    · The police are responsible for keeping order. (= the organization)
    · Police are conducting a house-to-house search. (= individual officers)

    With the plural you can also use a countable noun such as 'police officer' (in BE perhaps also 'constable'?):

    · In the US, police officers usually wear blue or black uniforms.
    · Two police officers took the suspects into custody.


    This sentence is probably possible as a variant in BE, but only because it includes the name of the city or region:
    >>Tayside Police is inviting motorcyclists to ...

    In AE, with the name of the city, you must use the word 'police department' if you want the singular:

    · The Chicago police department is promoting motorcycle safety.
    · The Chicago police are promoting motorcycle safety.


    With other collective nouns, as I also explained in the other recent thread, BE does sometimes use a plural verb, though these sentences would be wrong in AE:
    >>The team aren't playing well at the moment
    >>Ford don't make that model any more


    In general: I have no wish to discourage German speakers from commenting on English usage, but I do wish, FloFloUSA[de] and Andi, that you would take the time to double-check your facts before posting quite so confidently.
    #8Authorhm -- us16 May 06, 04:14
    Comment
    @hm-us
    Brilliant explanation - couldn't agree more!
    #9AuthorLis GB16 May 06, 07:22
    Comment
    @ FloFloUSA: Bitte nicht böse sein, aber könntest Du bitte das "USA" aus Deinem Nick streichen? Es ist sehr verwirrend, weil man leicht annehmen kann, Du seist ein Englisch-native-speaker. Ich wollte zu dieser Diskussion eigentlich evtl. beitragen, dass "police" meines Wissens pluralistisch gehandhabt wird. Deine Aussage, die ich als Tatsache gewertet habe (wg. "bottom line") und der Zusatz "USA" haben mich jedoch verunsichert (und das obwohl ich erst kürzlich in einem US-amerikanischen "the police are" gehört habe). Zum Glück hat hm--us die Sache sehr gut aufgeklärt.
    #10Authorbabs16 May 06, 08:19
    Comment
    Also agree totally with hm-us, but would like to comment on the following:

    "With other collective nouns, as I also explained in the other recent thread, BE does sometimes use a plural verb, though these sentences would be wrong in AE:
    >>The team aren't playing well at the moment
    >>Ford don't make that model any more"

    Agreed, but "does sometimes" is too weak; BE "very often" uses the plural verb in these situations, especially ("always"?) where teams are concerned:
    EG: Chelsea are Champions, Liverpool are the current FA Cup Holders - you'll NEVER hear "Chelsea is Champion" in BE.

    With Ford / BBC etc etc usage is interchangeable:
    "Ford don't/doesn't make that model any more"
    "The BBC are/is making a new version of Dr Who" - ("The BBC's making")
    #11AuthorLK16 May 06, 09:01
    Comment
    OK, so I will confuse the issue a bit more. I disagree that it is always "team are" although it is used in most cases. However in situations like this
    Indeed, the Unst Response Team is jointly managed by .. (http://www.hie.co.uk/shetland/urt.html)
    are would be IMHO wrong
    My team is winning - is also OK.
    If you google "team is" site:co.uk you will see numerous examples of where "team is" is correct.
    This is one of my favourites; we had 3 translators and 2 teachers of English for a meal and discussed "team is" versus "team are" and the decision at the end of the day was that both are possible and it depends on the situation.
    #12AuthorLis GB16 May 06, 13:40
    Comment
    Use plural with "police"! I don't need to go into the details since hm - us has already done such a great job of summing it all up, but I wanted to add another native speaker's comment.
    #13AuthorNicole <AE>16 May 06, 13:54
    Comment
    BE "very often" uses the plural verb in these situations, especially ("always"?) ....

    From my post.
    Please note the speculative question mark after the word "always".
    And I was referring to the names of teams, not the word "team" itself.
    Compare:
    the police are making a good job of the situation
    the armed response unit (team) is making a good job of the situation

    Liverpool are winning / playing well at the moment
    My team is/are winning / playing well at the moment

    #14AuthorLK16 May 06, 14:01
    Comment
    I too would say:

    The police are ...

    However, I would always say:

    Manchester United is ...
    Liverpool is ...
    The BBC is ...
    Ford is ...
    The team is ....

    I find the use of the plural in such cases very ugly! Incidentally, I am an English native speaker.
    #15Author???16 May 06, 14:17
    Comment
    @LK
    Situation clarified.
    Glad that we agree :O)
    #16AuthorLis GB16 May 06, 14:18
    Comment
    @Lis GB: me too :o)
    I think ??? is in a minority though....I've NEVER heard a BE native speaker say "Chelsea is champion"...
    #17AuthorLK16 May 06, 14:34
    Comment
    LK

    You have a point there. I wouldn't say "Chelsea is champion" either.

    However, I think sentences like the following from www.london2012.com should be avoided at all costs:

    "Chelsea Football Club are delighted to announce it has become an Official Supporter of the London 2012 Olympic bid."
    #18Author???16 May 06, 14:45
    Comment
    I agree.
    "Chelsea are Champions and the police are escorting the team bus as it wends its way through the cheering West London crowds"
    is, however, perfectly acceptable BE.
    #19AuthorLK16 May 06, 15:10
    Comment
    I'd like to thank the Brits here for their valuable information on the subtleties of the English language and ask hm-us where the threads are to be found, in which he previously explained the use of "police" (Quote: "but for the nth time,..."). Walter might want to check them out!
    #20AuthorSinn- und Kontextsucher16 May 06, 15:17
    Corrections

    The NYPD is ....

    -

    Polizei



    Comment
    Thanks hm-us for the detailed explanation. I was afraid that after 20 years spent trying to remember that the word police in English requires the plural form, not the singular, rules were all of a sudden changing on me... In many years in the US I have never heard anybody say "the police is looking for so-and-so ...". The only exception is when "department" is added to it, in which case, it is correct to use the singular ("the NYPD is still looking for ...")
    #21AuthorHorst16 May 06, 16:59
    Comment
    Verzeihung, wenn ich nach dieser ergiebigen Diskussion den Thread noch mal aufgreife, aber es gibt da zwei Fragen, auf die ich bisher noch immer eine Antwort suche und die zu der Fragestellung dieses Threads passen würden.

    Zum einen wäre da die Frage der Verbform nach allgemeinen Gruppenwörtern wie family oder band (music). Michael Swan schreibt in seinem Buch "Practical English Usage", dass die Verbform nach diesen Wörtern davon abhängig ist, wie der Sprecher die jeweilige Gruppe sieht, als Einheit (singular) oder als "Ansammlung" einzelner Individuen (plural). Wärend mir die Unterscheidung bei Wörtern wie Familie noch leicht fällt, tue ich mich da bei Bands doch schon etwas schwerer. Instinktitiv würde ich den Plural benutzen wollen, doch Google gibt jedesmal mehr Treffer für den Singular; z.B "Nirvana is credited with founding the Grunge movement" vs "Nirvana are founding the Grunge movement".

    Zum anderen ist da die Frage der Verbform nach Wörtern die sowohl in der Einzahl als auch der Mehrzahl immer eine plurale Form annehmen, wie z.B. Headquarters.
    Müsste es da heißen "Their headquarters are located ...." oder "Their headquarters is located ..."? Letzteres klingt irgendwie komisch, gibt aber auch nicht gerade wenige Treffer bei Google.

    Wenn mir das vielleicht nochmal jemand, sozusagen als das große Finale zu diesem Thread, erklären könnte, wäre ich sehr verbunden.
    #22AuthorDeepThought16 May 06, 20:24
    Comment
    It would DEFINITELY be 'their headquarters are located' in the above example. As a native BE (or should I say, Scottish English!) speaker I can tell instinctively, even if I am unable to back this up - sorry.

    The police are searching for the suspect.
    The USA is a superpower.
    Glasgow Rangers are in the European Champions League.
    The family is/are all coming round for dinner.

    There's some examples to spice up discussions! Sorry if it's not much help but I felt I wanted to add something, having read the previous chat.
    #23AuthorNicola 16 May 06, 22:22
    Comment
    @Sinn- und Kontextsucher:

    Wurde tatsächlich schon desöfteren diskutiert, ich selbst habe einmal so einen Thread erstellt. Seit der Umstellung der Foren etc. (bzw. teilweise auch schon davor), sind viele Diskussionen leider nicht mehr verfügbar.
    #24AuthorElena17 May 06, 00:41
     
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