@Mausling
I would most definitely avoid the term "pissed off" in any professional/public situation. Saying "I am pissed off" or "that pisses me off" has a very strong connotation in America. Die passende Übersetzung für deine Deustchen Ausdrücke ist "ticked off".
"I am sorry but I am getting a bit ticked off, here". "I am sorry, but that ticks me off". Even milder, and, I think, better, would be to say, for instance: "I am sorry, but this situation is starting to be a bit of nuisance".

Plus, anything said with a German accent sounds very strong to American ears. I would definitely try to use very mild expressions, if I were you.

It's a little on the rough side, particularly if the other party is a woman. I would go as far as " I'm getting really p.o'd with the situation."
But that's just me. :-)))

OT
@Helmi
Hi Helmi! :-) How is it hanging? Did you watch the debate last night?

OT,
Hi Fuji, it's shakin'nicely. I certainly did and I like that lady. If only the Morning spinnmeisters would shut up. :-))

Yes, "piss" is pretty "bad" (it rates three stars in Michal Swan, and there's only one word that rates more than that), so "pissed (off)" is fairly heavy-duty. In some circles, it is used pretty casually among among friends, but even then, it is not used outside that circle except in extremely serious cases.

The other problem is of course if the person felt your anger was directed unfairly at her. This might have to do with your phraseology, or she might be quick to take offence or feel attacked.

I recommend sticking with the non-slang words -- which word you choose depends on how pissed off you are: angry, annoyed, irritated, etc. For example, "I'm sorry, I know it's not your fault, but it makes me angry that..."

@OT
I think only November 4th will finally shut them up... *lach*

OT
@ Helmi, FujiApple

Watched the debate last night as well and it made me like this lady even less than before. Sorry, Helmi :-)

I think November 4 will shut the pitbull up.

Mausling, EN-speaking Canada here.... :)
Agree with the others... not something you would say in a business context, even if you are complaining (legitimately) about something. It's pretty strong and not pretty.

That having been said, it is never the CSR's call to rebuke a customer, no matter what - she's the one who was rude by not following CSR/customer protocol - unacceptable (and there are a lot more rude clients out there than the pissed off ones!)

Hi RES-can!

Kind of hoped, you would read that.

Ich muss zugeben, dass es mich weniger gestoert hat, dass sie sich das "pissed off" verboten hat. Ich war nur ueberrascht, da ich den Ausdruck als nicht so schlimm empfand.

Was mich viel mehr nervte, waren ihre staendigen Entschuldigungen (wahrscheinlich genau nach CSR/customer protocol). Mir war es ja ziemlich egal, ob es ihr leid tat, sie konnte ja nichts dafuer. Aber Entschuldigungen machen den Service nicht besser.

Manchmal denke ich, dass "Customer Service Nordamerika" ist "Wir sind extrem hoeflich, der Kunde hat immer recht und wir entschuldigen uns fuer unsere Fehler. Was wollen sie dann noch?" "Kundenservice Deutschland" dagegen: "Wir machen, was sie wollen und zwar fix. Warum sollen wir dann auch noch freundlich sein?"

Mal wieder extrem verallgemeinernd, aber gerade frustriert... :)

Mausling, Kundenservice Deutschland und fix?? Neeeeee (es gibt Ausnahmen, aber...) :-))

Mausling, trust me, I feel your pain.... and if it makes you feel any better, I may at times have used it myself....

I usually phrase it to the CSR: I know you are the messenger, and I'm not about to shoot you, but since this call is probably being taped for quality service, I have to let you know that I am extremely annoyed/ticked off with this situation. I would like you to document that in the file you have open for me. If you cannot help me, please pass me on to your supervisor....

blablabla.... still doesn't necessarily get you what you want, but it may sometimes, and other times it just makes you feel better....

Actually service does depend on the company - but generally if the company is good, it's be friendly, be empathetic, and get the job done even if you have to escalate, or at least leave the customer feeling good .....

All that said, I know that words never seem to sound as tasteless, or possibly vulgar (I would put pissed off in the first category) when it is not your first language... been there, done that!

So enjoy your weekend.

Carly, please don't ruin a perfectly valid prejudice with facts! ;)

RES, I know that words never seem to sound as tasteless, or possibly vulgar when it is not your first language... Yep, das war genau das, was ich befuerchtet hatte. Und es wird dann demnaechst aus meinem aktiveren Wortschatz verschwinden. Seltsamerweise fanden meine ersten beiden Kollegen, die ich off-line befragte, "pissed off" zwar harsch, aber nicht so schlimm. Wahrscheinlich hatten sie einfach Angst, was ich sonst nehmen wuerde. Ich gebe dir auch recht, dass man seinen Aerger nicht an den armen Telefon-Mitarbeitern auslassen soll. Andererseits: warum soll ich mich immer zurueckhalten, bloss weil sie jemand Unschuldiges hinters Telefon setzen? ;)

Irgendwelche Vorschlaege, fuer emphatische, aber nicht-vulgaere Alternativen? angry, annoyed, irritated macht keinen Spass und ticked off ist mir ein wenig zuuu harmlos.

they may be "harmlos", but you are better served with them when you want something... you know the old saying about catching more flies with honey than with vinegar
- when all is said and done, some companies just do their thing once they have your account - depending on what it is, threatening to switch companies sometimes works.... (Bell, Rogers come to mind....)

- you don't have to banish pissed off from your vocab, but reserve it for people you know well :)

Mausling, The details would fill pages, but I had a similar series of run-ins with the Deutsche Telekom, and was a bit more than pissed, I was frothing at the mouth :-) Here's my tatic used (successfully) in German, and you could perhaps adapt it to English (do the Canadian/US "Service Lines" also cost a minor fortune?: Endlich ein menschlicher Stimme, nach "hunderttausend" künstliche: Guten Tag, Frau X, Frau Y am Apparat, und ich sage Ihnen gleich vorweg, daß ich auf 180 bin. Ich weiß, Sie können nichts dafür aber (Problem kurz geschildert), und bevor wir ins Detail gehen, es könnte passieren, daß ich etwas vulgär werde...Frau X lacht, und läßt mich detailliert, wie ein Rohrspatz fluchen, mein Problem erläutern.

P.S. Ich habe gar beim "Wenn Sie was auch immer, bitte sagen Sie Ja/Nein" F*** gesagt, und hörte ein Computerstimme sagen: Tut mir Leid, das war kein gültiger Antwort.

Mausling, I wouldn't remove it completely from your vocabulary. Just be aware of where it fits and where it does not. I agree with Helmi's first comment. Somehow a man saying this to a woman seems even more offensive. But maybe that's true with cursing in general and maybe also has to do with my upbringing. ;-)
I can easily see how you have heard this being bandied about by your Canadian or American friends and assumed it was pretty harmlos. But take note also of where, that is, the situation and the setting, you have heard people saying "pissed off". I'll bet your friends don't say this to their bosses, for instance.

In my experience, I know of people who have said far worse things to CSRs and sometimes it even works. But it's not really "civil"(whatever that means) IMO.

wupper, I agree, and am NOT a cussing person, normally. But, I had gone through six weeks of D. Telekom "service" hotline.

I would like to add something, and I know it will probably come across a bit sexist, but expressions like f***, s**, pissed off, etc, sound extremely crass when coming out the mouth of a woman...

@ # 7, Susele, well of course the final desision will be made on Election Day, but with my earlier comment you might infer who I'm not going to vote for. :-)
But isn't it interesting how the "dummycraps" get all worked up when an appetizingly attractive Governor of far away Alaska shows up on the stage whose boards got a little brittle with the like's of that Clinton lady. Oh, well, you get my drift.
:-))

Mausling, how about: This (really) annoys the living daylights out of me!
This is annoying the daylights out of me. I'm really teed off about this. This really irks me.
These are colorful and not quite so base as being "pissed off", but still get your point across.

#19
how can you put the words "clinton" and "lady" in the same sentence??? *lach* Heaven only knows what she is, but certainly NOT a lady!! *lach*

@ wupper, and if you want to be a little more, well sarcastic, you could say: " And you know what? I'm appreciating the heck out of your service." :-))

@ 21, Fuji, yeah, I just wanted to avoid my usual terms
" that Clinton idiot and his b r o a d"
And now I have to go upstairs and watch Bill O'Reilly.
Good nite. :-))

And I have to go home... Good night to you too! :-)

Sorry, for leaving without notice.

Danke fuer die vielen Antworten. Ich bin normalerweise sehr zivil im Umgang mit Telefondienstlern, auch wenn's schwerfaellt, aber irgendwie war mir "pissed off" nichts als so heftig erschienen. Wahrscheinlich weil ich es ja ueber mich selbst sagte.

Danke auch fuer die Vorschlaege. Werde mal drueber nachdenken...

we use the expressions 'cheesed off'and 'browned off',but tghen we are not prone to swearing

#4 helmi - to marry or as your president? i give her full marks for learning by rote and remembering drills like mentioning maverick often, albeit too often to be convincing, and sidestepping questions she is not comfortable with...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/oct/0...

the charm of swearing

You may not agree with Clinton's politics, but why do you have to insult her? Not a lady? Have you ever met her? I think Palin is brainless and shrill, but I don't feel the need to point it out. At least she knew pulling out of Michigan was a mistake, unlike John McCain. Good luck in November - you're going to need it.

@Fuji

I would like to add something, and I know it will probably come across a bit sexist, but expressions like f***, s**, pissed off, etc, sound extremely crass when coming out the mouth of a woman...

s**?
sex?

Wie nennen das die Frauen bei Euch denn dann?
"Uhr, well, you know what I mean..." ?

I remember a conversation I had with my "host mother" in Germany where she insisted that the word "fuck' was not a terrible word to use. I could not convince her the using it was an offensive and that she should not constantly use it as an interjection. Meanwhile I have noticed that many Germans who would never consider saying "Fotze" in public have no problems with saying "fuck".

Bethy wrote: "piss" is pretty "bad" (it rates three stars in Michal Swan, and there's only one word that rates more than that)

What´s that "stars"-thing from this Swan guy??

@schweinebacke: Practical English Usage is a book on how to use English (rather than a 'grammar' book) by the very respected English linguistics chap Michael Swan. It contains a section on taboo words, and gives each a number of stars according to how taboo they are, in other words, how rude people think they are.

According to this grading, damn is a one-star word, piss is a three-star word, there are a few four-star words (the f- word and the sh- word, for example) and only one five-star word, which is the rudest of them all. Anything stronger than a one-star word is probably inappropriate for a customer-service telephone call (although we've all been tempted to go beyond on occasions...).

@Paul
Na, wenn sie das in Deutsch gesagt hat, hat sie ja auch recht gehabt. In einer deutschen Unterhaltung hat 'fuck' nur einen sehr geringen Tabuwert. Da muss man aufpassen, dass man nicht die Sprachen durcheinanderbringt. Man sollte die Verwendung in den zwei Sprachen getrennt lernen, gewissermaßen wie false friends. Falls sie das in einem englischen Gespräch verwendet hat, hatte sie natürlich unrecht und hätte es unterlassen sollen.

@schweinebacke, yackydar: In my edition of Swan's Usage (second edition, 1995), damn and blast have one star, bitch, crap and fart have two, and piss is tied with fuck and shit and most of the 4-letter words for genitals, with three stars. Only cunt has four stars.

The above represents only a selection, not the entire list of taboo words.

@Paul (#31): This phenomenon is one I would like to eradicate too. Even in this supposedly intellectual forum one may be subjected to vulgar cursing attacks inflicted by Germans who think that swearing in English proves they are clever!

@nica (de): Das mag das Problem zum Teil erklären, aber warum wollen die Deutschsprachigen unsere vulgären Schimpfwörter überhaupt verwenden? Weil sie sie für harmloser halten als die Eigenen? Oder "cooler"?
Oder ist f*** jetzt auf einmal ein "deutsches Wort", im Sinne Deiner Aussage:
Man sollte die Verwendung in den zwei Sprachen getrennt lernen, gewissermaßen wie false friends. ??

Mein Eindruck (aus Film, Fernsehen und Presse) ist, dass im angel-sächsischen Raum mehr geflucht wird als im deutschsprachigen Raum. Außerdem liegt auf dem einen deutschen Wort, dass ähnlich wie f*** verwendet wird - nämlich Scheiß- - kaum ein Tabu. Die Schlussfolgerung der Deutschen, die im Englischen eine Niveau erreicht haben, das ihnen erlaubt ein paar "swear words" zu verwenden, die sich aber nicht weiter mit dem Tabuwert dieser Wörter beschäftigt haben, ist, dass der Tabuwert von "f***" und "Scheiße" etwa gleich ist.

Wenn man im Deutschen so ausgedehnt fluchen würde, wie ich es von Natives erlebt habe, würde das nur lächerlich wirken. (siehe dazu auch nolis Link in #28)

Das Problem ist doch, dass man sich ziemlich intensiv mit der Fremdsprache auseinander muss, um zu wissen, dass diese Wörter, die so oft verwendet werden, dass man sie als ein die Sprache Lernender nebenbei aufschnappen kann, trotzdem Tabu sind. Ich finde, dass ist von den meisten, die ganz gut Englisch können, es aber nicht oft nutzten, zu viel verlangt.

Carly, that cheers me up this morning - last week I also tested out the automatic Telekom voice's knowledge of English swearwords. Their automated hotline is amazingly bad, isn't it? I discovered something useful for next time, though: if you shout "Mensch!" it puts you through to a human after asking only two more uneccessary questions. (I got to practise this a couple of times as the first human I got through to cut me off, apparently for being too slow.)

A bit late perhaps, but I too think "pissed" in this context is too strong and rather rude (though of course you did not mean it that way). Words like "frustrated", "annoyed" etc. would be acceptable to me in such as business relationship.
I grew up a few hours south of the Canadian border.

eine nützliche Phrase, oft verwendet bei Beschwerden:

Look, this is just not good enough. I expect you to...

niemals pissed. Zumal das in GB ohne "off" auch unfreiwillig komisch sein könnte.

We once had an automated cinema-ticket-booking-telephone-machine-thingie (that is indeed the technical term, it's in the OED.).
Either it was stone deaf, or there was a conspiracy trying to get everyone to see Dancing with Wolves (or whatever it was) - whenever we said the number of the film we wanted to see, say 2, the voice cheerfully responded with "Sie haben Film 5 gewählt". It proceeded to ignore our howls of "Neiiin! Zwei!". After 4 more futile attempts we gave up. Was this the new way for direct marketing, I wonder?

@Noli
Are you going to be allowed to vote on November 4th, 20008?

@Dem O. Crat
It has little to do with her politics and a lot to do with her as a person. And, yes, I have, as a matter of fact: I met her in person on her own turf (Rose Law Firm) many years ago, and she was already a notorious bitch. She was extremely rude to me and as I put her back in her place she just walked away. My teacher told me all alarmed: "Oh no, Fuji, you do NOT talk like that to the Governor's wife: you do NOT know what that 'person' is capable of". That was the first time. Then I had the misfortune of meeting her again a few months later, as now she was the first "lady", along with that pathetic liar husband of hers... I will stop here. Don't get me started on the Clinton's... What is happening in the the US right now is still related to those catastrophic eight years between January 20th, 1993 and January 20th, 2001. These past eight years have not been much better, by the way. Even worse for certain things...

@Snowflake
that should have been s***. (three ***, not two. Typo)
And : "Uhr, well, you know what I mean..." ?
That is a very inappropriate way for a young woman your age to talk to somebody who's old enough to be your father! Get on up to your room, young lady! :-D

@ fujiapple
>>Don't get me started on the Clinton's...<<<br/>
Maybe better without an apostrophe? And why not leave them out of the discussion Nov. 08

Gut, dass ich LEO habe. :)

Ich habe uebers WE nochmal in Englisch-kanadischer Runde umgefragt und die Reaktion dort ging eher in die Richtung, dass "pissed off" beileibe nicht sehr schlimm sei und der Telefonservice wahrscheinlich in Neu-Braunschweig sass und diese ja auch schon bei "damn" rot anlaufen. ;) (sinngemaesses Zitat aus) Da ich normalerweise lieber auf der Seite der Vorsicht irre, folge ich lieber der hier sehr einhelligen Meinung und vermeide "pissed off".

Was das Fluchen/Schimpfen in einer anderen Sprache betrifft, so stimme ich allen zu, dass ueberzogen vulgaeres Verhalten aufgrund von Nichtverstaendnis ein typischer Nichtmuttersprachlerfehler ist. Aber dies muss ich halt auch irgendwann mal lernen...

Etwas anderes hat mich ueberrascht: Laut yackydar und Bethy wird "fuck" und "shit" im Swan auf die selbe Stufe des Vulgaeren gestellt. Ist dies ein AE/BE-Mittelwert? Ich dachte bisher stets, dass "f..." in BE deutlich vulgaerer waere als "sh.." und vice versa in AE.

PS: Und keine Sorge, es ist mir schon klar, dass keines dieser beiden egal wo Platz in einer hoeflichen Konversation hat. :)))

@fuji

*lol*

as if...

@Snowflake
lol :-)

@Mausling
Bei uns im Nordwesten ist f*** viel schlimmer als s*** (3 ***!!) was auch nicht so schlimm ist obwowohl man eher "crap" sagt. Hogwash ist noch höflicher.

@45 Fuji
Same in EN-speaking Canada

Fuji,

What a load of crap. All the current problems are the Clintons' fault? Take Republican-colored glasses off - it's been 8 years and Bush has had plenty of time to correct whatever perceived mistakes the Clintons made. But it doesn't matter - the Republicans' time is up. You've had your chance. Now it's ours. Buh-bye.

Dem O. Crat
"All the current problems are the Clintons' fault?"
Of course not. Did I say that? Reread my post, please, I said: "What is happening in the the US right now"
Right now, i.e. I was talking about this banking, housing, stock-market crisis: it's MR. Clinton who, instead of promoting real left wing change, came up with the great idea of "turning every American into a savvy investor". Investing your hard earned dollar into the stock market, or the housing market, or whatever is something only rich people can afford to do, NOT your common everyday Joe. He is the one who initiated this "race for the fluff". Bush has made other mistakes, but that one belongs to "slick Willy", sorry. Let's make sure we talk again in a month... :-) I am not a registered Republican, by the way.

Fuji,

Bush and the Republicans are the ones who have supported the ownership society over the past 8 years. Whatever the failings of Clinton may have been, he is not the main reason we're in the mess we're in now (which is what you seem to be implying). He has some culpability, but to lay it all at his doorstep is ridiculous. It doesn't matter, though. The Republicans' time has come to end. I don't care what your political registration is. Your antipathy to the Clintons is clear. I can't wait to talk to you on November 5. Until then.

What really pisses me off is listening to foreigners using these expressions when talking to native speakers of English. Please pardon my French.

Dem O. Crat
Well, of course Bush has not done much to reverse the catastrophic "Clinton Doctrine": Bush is a Republican. There is nothing wrong with Republicans thinking and acting like Republicans. The Clintons on the other hand... Anyway, my "antipathy" for the Clintons is something I do not really try to conceal and on the fact that I give him most of the blame for the mess we are in is something we are going to have to agree to disagree on, Dem O.Crat.
I will see you in about a month and hopefully a lot of people will NOT be cheated again by the Democrats and will vote for Nader.

There's something else that pisses me off: People taking over a thread for their own private political conversations ...

*apologizing for being off-topic*

@spinatwachtel: I once had a similar problem with the Amtrak booking system. It would only let me book a ticket to my destination if I mispronounced the name. If I said it properly, the way the Iowans say it, I heard, "I've got it. You want to book a ticket to Trenton, New Jersey" or some such destination that was both geographically and phonologically far removed from my actual destination. I only figured it out after several attempts. Good thing I was ridiculed in 6th grade for mispronouncing the name of said town in Iowa, when I was actually saying the name of another town in another state. Otherwise I'd probably still be in New Jersey.

I think part of the problem with "pissed off" is that while it's not so uncommon among friends, assuming the speaker is my age or younger, it's not appropriate at all for a business situation. It's that famous Anglo-Saxon/American be polite even though you'd really rather not thing. That's why it's called politeness. Otherwise we would all just always say what we're really thinking, which we tend not to do.

I was once really "pissed off", having just gotten a parking ticket for parking where I was told to park by posted signs, When I complained about the signs and the ticket, I used an inappropriate word (which probably would have been common where I worked) with the secretary, and she immediately objected to my language I got no further help resolving my problem. So, lesson learned.

Ach... Komm schon, Wolfie!!! Wieso so zickig, Heute??? :-)

What really pisses me off is listening to foreigners using these expressions when talking to native speakers of English. Please pardon my French.

Danke fuer deinen konstruktiven Beitrag. Sobald ich mehr ueber deine Meinung zu diesem Thema wissen will, werde ich nachfragen.

Mausling, I think it was very brave of you to admit you had made this mistake and I think it will serve to set a good example to others not to fall into the trap of using slang or inappropriate language in formal contexts, especially when these words are not in their mother tongue. :-)

Wolfman's comment is not necessarily directed at you, so I wouldn't take it personally - perhaps he was thinking of other (worse) scenarios.

#55: Der freundliche Kommentar wird besonders interessant, wenn man bedenkt, daß Wolfman einer der erwähnten foreingers ist...

#57
"Der freundliche Kommentar wird besonders interessant, wenn man bedenkt, daß Wolfman einer der erwähnten foreingers ist..."
... And top of that is also one of those who tend to go out of their way in order to use slang... :-D

"on" hochwerfe... :-)
And now, after getting rightfully chided, it's time for you to go to bed, Wolfie! :-D

Vielleicht hatte irgendwann einmal jemand seine Frau solcherart beleidigt - sie ist so weit ich weiß Engländerin.

Ich war schon schockiert, als mir diese Phänomen zum ersten Mal untergekommen ist.

Auch im Radio habe ich eine Sendung gehört mit dem Titel: "Hit oder Shit?" - unglaublich, oder? Stellt Euch vor, man würde das ganze auf Deutsch umbenennen, etwa "Heiß oder Scheiß?" - wie würden denn die Omas reagieren? "Des is a Schande heast! Mei Enkerl hot des ghert, wie kumman wir denn dahin...?!?"

Titel: "Hit oder Shit?" - unglaublich, oder?
@Mary: Das ist nichts. In Berlin gibt es die berühmte "Fuck-You-Hotline"(ja, sie heißt tatsächlich so. Ich habe den Namen nicht erfunden) - eine sehr beliebte Radiosendung mit begeisterter Zuhörerschaft. Die Sendung läuft nach folgendem Muster ab: Einer ruft an und erzählt seine Geschichte, in der es hauptsächlich darum geht, wie schlecht der Anrufer behandelt wurde. Mit anderen Worten, er beklagt sich auf Sendung.
Die häufigsten Übeltäter sind Chefs, Chefinnen, Ex- Freunde und Freundinnen. Ungerechtigkeit in der Liebe oder im Beruf halt. Die Anrufer fühlen sich meistens total verarscht und wollen nur eines - Rache. Nach einer bisweilen rührenden Geschichte mit vielen interessanten Details kommt der Anrufer zum Höhepunkt. Er brüllt ganz laut "Fuck-You!" in die Muschel, meistens wiederholt und schäumend vor Wut. Manchmal gibt es sogar 2 Adressaten, z.B. der Chef und der hinterhältige Kollege als Komplize; aber das kommt wirklich selten vor.
Nach diesem kathartischen Akt geht es dem Anrufer vermutlich besser und der nächste gepeinigte Anrufer ist dann dran. Eine sehr seltsame Sendung, aber wie gesagt, auch eine sehr Beliebte. Der Strom von Anrufern reißt nicht ab... Ich finde sie nur noch geschmacklos. :-(

Nanu?
Geht das nicht unter Verleumdung/üble Nachrede oder so?
Darf man jemanden derart öffentlich beschimpfen??

Fuj,

I didn't say Bush should've reversed Clinton's policies (which were not, in any case, the direct cause of the current catastrophe); I said HE AND HIS POLICIES ARE THE CAUSE. Regarding your comment about Nader: Huh?

Wolf, if you don't like the conversation, don't read it. Simple as that.

Mauslings, Verfasser #0,"das kaest mich ziemlich an", wurde bei mir auch in fast jeder Situation eine harsche Reaktion hervorrufen, entweder verbal oder durch Mauern, bis Mausling der Kaese sonstwo raus kommt.

Nun arbeite ich nicht in einem Call-Center, aber ich glaube die meisten haben mit solchen Hot-Lines, Customer-Services u.ae. genau wie ich nur Negatives erlebt.

Vielleicht schreibt einmal jemand ein CSR/customer protocol für den Customer, also mich, mit dem man dann aus dem HarzIV-Empfänger oder Eineurojobber etwas Vernuenftiges herausbekommt und vielleicht als spin-off etwas Glanz in die Ohrmuschel des Callzenta-Agenten bringt.

Here comes a bit of sociolinguistic theory, to whom it may concern:

www.multilingual-matters.net/jmmd/025/0204/jmmd0250204.pdf

Auch da gehen dann wohl die Muttersprachlermeinungen auseinander: Im Deutschen wuerde ich im Gegensatz zu Pachulke "Es kaest mich an" niemals als offensiv/beleidigend/vulgaer empfinden. Ich bin mir auch nicht sicher, ob er damit wirklich richtig liegt. Insbesondere im sueddeutschen Sprachraum halte ich den Ausdruck wirklich fuer voellig harmlos.

@wupper (#61): Da gebe ich Dir Recht - die Radiosendung in Deinem Beispiel schlägt wohl wirklich alles, was man als 'unglaublich' bezeichnen könnte! Aber ich frage mich, ob die Anrufer dann wirklich ein echtes befreiendes Gefühl bekommen, wenn sie den Ursacher ihres Ärgernisses auf Englisch beschimpfen. Wäre der "kathartischer Akt" nicht vollkommener, wenn sie auf Deutsch schimpfen würden? (Oder wäre es dann nicht erlaubt?)

"Das käst mich an" finde ich auch ziemlich offensiv, obwohl ich auch aus dem nördlichen süddeutschen Raum komme ;-).

@ Mary: In Deutschland ist in dieser Hinsicht leider so ziemlich alles erlaubt. Aber es stimmt, englische Schimpfwörter erscheinen im Deutschen nicht ganz so schlimm wie deutsche, und vermutlich hätten die Anrufer erheblich mehr Probleme ihr armes Opfer mit "gleichwertigen" deutschen Ausdrücken zu beschimpfen.

@Dem O. Crat
About Clinton, like I said, we are going to have to agree to disagree: I say it's Clinton that started it all with his push towards the Stock market, investing into publicly held companies, etc. You say it's all Bush's fault. We obviously disagree. But you know what? Both Clinton, and soon Bush, are the past. Dwelling on the past is useless. We can only hope the next administration will inspire congress to better things.
About Nader: Why "huh"?? I think Nader is the only one who offers a REAL ALTERNATIVE. You probably disagree on that, too...
One thing though: why don`t you reveal the nick you are registered with? I think I know who you are, but....

@FujiApple & Dem O.Crat: Ich finde es unfair, in einem Faden eine neue Diskussion zu beginnen. Ich weiß nicht, wie die anderen das sehen. Ich wollte nur meine Meinung zum Ausdruck bringen.

#54: Re: #50: Fuji: Mich stört es, wenn Deutsche mit Engländern oder Amerikanern (Australiern, Neuseeländern, Kanadiern, Südafrikanern, usw.) sprechen und dabei die sogenannten "four-letter words" benutzen als wenn sie zum üblichen Sprachgebrauch gehörten. Im normalen deutschen Umgang mit Menschen ist es nicht üblich, derartige Ausdrücke zu benutzen. Seltsamerweise meinen viele Deutsche, dass diese "four-letter words" in der englischen Sprache ganz alltäglich seien.

Das war der Grund für meine Bemerkung.

#56: Mary: Exactly! ;-)

@Wolfman: Tut mir leid, wenn ich ein wenig eingeschnappt reagiert habe. Ich versuche normalerweise vulgaere Ausdruecke zu vermeiden und der ganze Faden war dadurch ausgeloest worden, dass ich meinte Anlass zu der Meinung zu haben, dass "pissed off" nicht in diese Gruppe gehoert. Daher stoerte mich dein Kommentar ungemein, was zeigt, dass man keine 4-letter-words braucht um anzuecken.

Interessanterweise steht die einhellige LEO-Meinung zu "pissed off" im Widerspruch zur ueberwiegenden Freundesmeinung. Ich analysiere dies jetzt naeher... ;)

Aber auch Muttersprachler haben halt andere Schmerzgrenzen und ich bin immer noch baff ueber Pachulkes und babs Meinung zu "kaest mich an".

@Wolfie
#71
Da hast du natürlich Recht: einen Faden zu kapern ist überhaupt nicht höflich. Keine Frage. Trotzdem, wenn man nur ab und an was OT schreibt und so lange das Ganze ziemlich begrenzt bleibt und den Faden nicht kapert, ist es doch ok, oder? :-) Wie sicherlich du schon gemerkt hast, war ich von deinem Kommentar in #52 gar nicht beleidigt und habe darauf scherzhaft reagiert. :-)

#72 Da hast du wieder Recht: warum müssen so viele Deustchen, sogar im TV, unbedingt solche Worte benutzen? F*** wird vom Stefan Raab immer wieder ausgesprochen obwohl er sich mit der Englsichen Sprache eigentlich ziemlich gut auskennt, und deswegen wissen sollte wie unschön das klingt. Meiner Meinung nach ist das wiederholte Fluchten in einer Fremdsprache ein Zeichen von Mangelndem Respekt vor dieser Sprache und vor den Leuten die diese Sprache als Muttersprache haben.

Mein Kommentar in #54 bezog sich übrigens auf deinen in #52, nicht auf den in #50

@Mausling
If a high-school student (in the US) says "pissed off" in school, he/she will be reprimanded. "Ticked off", on the other hand will be accepted even by the strictest of teachers.

@ Wolfman , # 72, no surprise here. In my long time traveling all over the world the German obesession to be " sooo international" became an embarrassing joke. Learn a language and a culture first and then speak very carefully because your counterpart may know a little more about you. :-)))

Das Verwenden englischer Kraftausdrücke liegt vielleicht auch an der hierzulande verbreiteten Musik und den Filmen, in denen andauernd geflucht wird. Unsereins hält das dann mangels lebender Erfahrung für echt und cool :-)

Wer mit leibhaftigen Engländern geschäftlich zu tun hat, merkt schnell, dass die kaum fluchen, schon gar nicht vor Frauen, und das höchste der Gefühle ein "slightly irritated" ist. Da kleben die schon knapp unter der Decke ;-)
Vielleicht sollte man den Schulkindern schon erklären, dass das "not amused" der Queen einem mittleren Nervenzusammenbruch entspricht :-)

Don't just ask your friends how offensive a word is, ask their mothers!

That is my advice after just having been told off by my mother yesterday for using "inappropriate language" (as Amy-MiMi so appropriately calls it) while relating an incident which had me somewhat more than "slightly irritated"! ("I will not put up with such language coming into my house from halfway around the world, thank you very much!" were her stern words.) Clearly I had forgotten who I was talking to! *blush*. Talking to mothers is not the same as talking to sisters or friends.

This fact should also be borne in mind when talking to strangers. (Also, you don't know the age of the person when talking on the phone - an older person may have a young-sounding voice. Though it's no more appropriate to swear in front of young strangers either, even if they might be more tolerant.)

So, if you are not sure about a certain word or expression, ask your English-speaking friends if they would use it in front of their mothers!


nja has made a point I wanted to make, too. The "British understatement" is a very effective way of showing your annoyance without resorting to any swearwords or potentially offensive slang expressions. One of my sisters, who has been working in top management positions in the UK for over a decade, is a master in the art of the cool, calm, and collected reproach.

The best of these sarcastic understatements are:
"I'm afraid to say I'm not at all impressed with your service..."
" You have done this, this, and this wrong, but you still haven't done that, I've been waiting five weeks and frankly I'm not very happy about it..."

The words in bold need to be emphasised, but in a very cool, or even icy tone of voice. Your voice must never be raised.

The person at the receiving end will understand that:

I'm not impressed = you are useless and I am furious about it
I'm not very happy about it = I'm really pissed off and if nothing is done about it I will change to another service provider

But they cannot complain because you have not lowered yourself by raising your voice or offending them with bad language.

@nja:not amused = mittlerer Nervenzusammenbruch - genau! :-)

@mary #77 hear hear

@Mary nz/a #77

I think this is something very "foreign" to Germans. On more than one occasion I have dealt with Germans by using such "polite" language, but all they seem to do is take things literally.

What Germans understand:

I'm not impressed = "You could have done a better job; however it is tolerable"
I'm not very happy about it = "I'm glad to hear that you are a little happy about it"

Sometimes what we mean is not what people hear.

Another possibility: It's annoying me big time!

I think that we all understand that the local understanding of a translated or not-translated word can be different, caused by different external influence. Some of this is already stated, but I would like t summarize:
Based on Hollywood movies we got the impression in Germany that Americans are saying "f***" in every second sentence, - at least if the person is real cool! From language perspective, we are not separating so much between US, CA, GB, NZ ... so somehow the other native English speakers got the same stereotype.
On the other hand the use of vulgar words in Germany is a strong sign of bad education, bad private environment, lack of intelligence, ... .
Even in private environment you are not amused if one of your friends or guests is using the German word "Scheisse", - or worst case the word "Dreckige Fotze".
You get immediately the association with the object and you can see the picture of it directly in front of your eyes. Absolutely not acceptable!
The use of the English words “shit” and piss” is a little bit more harmless, it includes both, the association with Hollywood movies, and the association with the nearly identical German words (“Scheisse” und ”Pisse”).
The German verb “ficken” is used until middle age for sewing and sword making, - and for making love-, but never became such a taboo as in US. Until 30 years ago it was used not very often in public. So the first association with “fuck” are Hollywood film stars! So it is acceptable and absolutely harmless in German environment. This is changing a little bit if you are claming, - or if your experienced counterpart assumes -, that you have international experience. In last time I am got the impression that we are getting a better understanding of the US culture and so this is slowly changing, but you can’t blame a German, if we got an incorrect understanding of the US culture based on the US movies.

US movies ???
I just read that 20% of the famous British movie “Four Weddings And A Funeral” had to get recorded a second time for US version, because in the original version Hugh Grant was using the word “fuck” so often and it was impossible just to synchronize this usage with the words like “blimey” or “crumbs”.
20% of the entire movie !!!! - Don’t blame use for this stereotype.

If just been in US for a management consulting project. In a big meeting with the lower management of the customer the US project manager was three times saying that he was pissed about something.
Somehow he had been in a position to speak as direct. I had been prepared by my German line manager and colleagues to be extremely careful about what and how to say something, and so I did.
Nevertheless I got the feedback that I have been quit direct and did some strong statements.
I agree, that the language of an inexperienced German is quit strong for American ears.

I also think that vulgar words are much stronger, if a man is talking to a woman instead of his friends.

Le Freak, your English is a bit hard to follow but I gather you are saying that the poor Germans can't be blamed for inappropriate use of English swearwords, as they get the impression that English speakers swear all the time from films. That could be partly true, I'm sure. Another source might be certain song lyrics - which are allowed in D, but not in English-speaking countries, where the swear-words are beeped out, or changed for radio broadcasts.

It has already been mentioned by several posters that you have to watch your language depending on who you are talking to. Surely that is universal. You wouldn't talk to your grandmother about a Sch...-A...loch, der Dir echt auf den S... geht, would you?

Last topic, Doubled negotiation:
It’s a very difficult topic, the understanding is changing even in different regions of Germany. In the North of Germany we are a little bit more direct in negative feedback. We can say: “The result is bad” .After a good dinner, or a good own result, we are sometimes doing some understatements and are saying something like ”It was not so bad”. I have been told that the people in west or south of Germany would understand this as a quit bad dinner.
I thing Paul is right. We would all understand “I'm not impressed„ in the way Paul described.
The use of the famous quote of the British Queen“I'm not amused„ is in German language context absolutely harmless. The understanding would be like this: I am accepting this, it has just not been in my personal interest, - and includes the link to the queens quote as a yoke.
Regarding "I'm not very happy about it" I disagree to Paul. we would usually understand this in sameway. Germans can be very sarcastic.

The problem is that we have to recognize the sarcasm for this.
Our fist step is to translate words correctly.
If we have finished this, most times the sarcasm is already disappeared.
Our currently prefered doubled negotiation:
"I am not very unhappy about this!"
It's meaning:
I should not be happy about bad luck/disadvantange of someone else, but I am (very) happy about this.
Is this same in English?

If you mean "I am not unhappy" = "I am happy", then yes, this is (theoretically) the same in English. A double negative makes a positive.

Though there is still a subtle difference in meaning.
"Ich bin nicht unglücklich darüber" tends to imply that you can see the advantages in something, even though perhaps it did not turn out quite as planned.

I'm not sure though that we would say "I'm not unhappy about it" in the same situation. Rather, we might say "I'm not displeased about it", for example.

In #74 Fuji wrote:
"If a high-school student (in the US) says 'pissed off' in school, he/she will be reprimanded."

I don't think that's necessarily true. It depends on the school, the teacher and the situation. Teachers pick their battles and that's one I might not pick. I hear worse things and I call kids on them. I've recently gotten on kids for saying "sh*t" and "that's gay". However, I've let slide other things that I consider questionable and would not say (certainly not in front of my mother, as Mary NZ pointed out). I'm more likely to react to comments that are disrespectful (even though the individual words are not that bad) or words that are generally considered vulgar (even though they may be common in films or modern music).