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    bugger friends

    16­ Replies
    Topic

    bugger friends

    Comment
    Is there another meaning to this than the one I'm thinking of? This is from Alan Hollinghurst's "The Stranger's Child", which - at the moment of this quote - takes place some years after the (first?) war.

    - "So he didn't really know him," said Mrs Riley. [...]
    - "Oh, they met a few times. One of Cecil's bugger friends had him down to Cambridge, and they went in a punt [...]"

    So could this be some insider term for Oxbridge students or something? The Cecil in question is bisexual, but I'm not sure his brother (who's talking) knows that, and even if he did, he surely wouldn't be so relaxed about it?
    Author Gibson (418762) 13 Jan 13, 15:45
    Comment
    Don't forget Hollinghurst is homosexual and sometimes very explicit about this in his books. I don't think you need to look for any hidden or other meaning.
    #1Author penguin (236245) 13 Jan 13, 15:51
    Comment
    Yes, Hollinghurst might be, but I'd still be surprised to find a casual reference to buggery at that time in a perfectly harmless afternoon discussion, and with a female visitor to boot.
    #2Author Gibson (418762) 13 Jan 13, 16:05
    Comment
    I'd still be surprised

    I wouldn't.

    It means just what it says. Or rather, it isn't so much a reference to buggery as such, it just means one of his gay friends, as we'd say now.
    #3Author escoville (237761) 13 Jan 13, 16:09
    Comment
    I thought the English were so famously homophobic. Oh well, if you both insist... I'm pleasantly surprised then. Thanks.
    #4Author Gibson (418762) 13 Jan 13, 16:18
    Comment
    I thought the English were so famously homophobic.

    Eh? It's la vice anglaise!
    #5Author escoville (237761) 13 Jan 13, 16:38
    Comment
    Silly me.
    #6Author Gibson (418762) 13 Jan 13, 17:38
    Comment
    The brother's comment does seem homophobic - the adjective applied to the friend is/was derogatory/dismissive in this context.
    #7Author Ecgberht (469528) 14 Jan 13, 00:36
    Comment
    I agree with Ecgberht, in that it seems homophobic in that particular comment (in the text)."
    #8Author Ffive (876338) 14 Jan 13, 07:03
    Comment
    It is certainly derogatory or dismissive. But that doesn't mean it's 'homophobic', a word which is totally anachronistic in this context. In fact the speaker is demonstrating his tolerance by even mentioning the (taboo) subject, if, as you say, the setting is the 1920s.
    #9Author escoville (237761) 14 Jan 13, 10:13
    Comment
    the speaker is demonstrating his tolerance by even mentioning the (taboo) subject,

    Hence my confusion. (I'm still not sure which war we're talking about, there's been no direct reference so far and I can't work it out from clues like clothing etc., I just don`t know enough about it.)

    Thank you for your additional comments, everybody.
    #10Author Gibson (418762) 14 Jan 13, 12:27
    Comment
    Ich wäre auch gar nicht überrascht. Schon Virginia Woolf und ihre Freunde sprachen um die Jahrhundertwende so.
    #11Author Lady Grey (235863) 14 Jan 13, 12:38
    Comment
    I'm still not sure which war we're talking about

    I don't know the novel, but according to Wikipedia, it's divided into 5 sections, of which section 2 is set in 1926, and section 3 in the 1960s. The post-war reference suggests section 2.
    #12Author escoville (237761) 14 Jan 13, 13:39
    Comment
    Schon Virginia Woolf und ihre Freunde sprachen um die Jahrhundertwende so.

    But very self-consciously. They did it deliberately, pour épater le bourgeois. Like adolescents down the ages.
    #13Author escoville (237761) 14 Jan 13, 13:42
    Comment
    pour épater le bourgeois Schon möglich, escoville. Über die Motive wollte ich auch gar nichts gesagt haben, nur den Sprachgebrauch bestätigen. ;-)
    #14Author Lady Grey (235863) 14 Jan 13, 14:04
    Comment
    Thanks again, escoville. I finally found a date:

    Cecil "fell at Maricourt July 1 1916". So Google, as often, was right.

    Lady Grey, I'm not sure I'd use Virginia Woolf as an example for what was common or not ;)
    #15Author Gibson (418762) 14 Jan 13, 16:12
    Comment
    ;-)
    #16Author Lady Grey (235863) 14 Jan 13, 16:17
     
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