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    Language lab

    "you're welcome'- perhaps even condescending?

    Topic

    "you're welcome'- perhaps even condescending?

    Comment
    You're welcome. (stiff and formal, perhaps even condescending?)
    Thanking/thank you in advance?

    My questions are: who thinks 'you're welcome' is old-fashioned,or perhaps even condescending??
    Who uses the phrase 'thanking you in advance'?
    Ist da ein Unterschied zwischen AE und BE?
    Ich habe nur 'thank you' gelernt, nicht 'thank you in advance'..

    1. HBR Guide to Better Business Writing. © 2012
    Harvard Business Review Guides.
    2. Garner's Modern American Usage. (3d ed., Oxford 2009)

    Be plain-spoken:Avoid bizspeak.
    Hunt for offending phrases.
    1.Bizspeak may seem like convenient shorthand,but it suggests to readers that you're on autopilot, thoughtlessly using boilerplate phrases that people have heard over and over. Brief readable documents, by contrast,show care and thought.

    NOT THIS: Thank you for your courtesy and cooperation regarding this manner.
    BUT THIS: Thank you.

    NOT THIS: Thank you in advance for your courtesy and cooperation in this regard. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have questions regarding this request.
    BUT THIS: Thank you. If you have any questions,please call.


    2. Thanking you in advance. See thank you.
    Thank you. A. Generally.This
    phrase remains the best, most serviceable phrase,despite various attempts to embellish it or truncate it: thanking you in advance (presumptuous and possible insulting) thank you very much (with a trailer of surplusage), thanks (useful for on informal occasions), many thanks (informal but emphatic)

    B.Response. 
    The traditional response to Thank you is 'You're welcome.
    Somehow, though,in the 1980s, You're welcome came to feel a little stiff and formal, perhaps even condescending (as if the speaker were saying, "Yes, I really did you a favor, didn't I?")
    As a result, two other responses started displacing "You're welcome:"
    1 "No problem" (as if the speaker were saying, "Don't worry, you didn't inconvenience me too much"); and (2) "No, thank you"(as if the person doing the favor really considered the other person to have done the favor). The currency
    of You're welcome seems to diminish little by little,but steadily.
    Old-fashioned speakers continue to use it, but its future doesn't look bright.

    @ hm—us, I hope you don't think that my 'you're welcome' replies are too stiff or condescending. I guess I'm old-fashioned. :-) :-(

    Thank you.


    Here is an old thread. (advance)
    related discussion: Vielen Dank im Voraus - #7
    # 7 Ghol(BE)
    Authorme1 (236101) 02 Dec 13, 01:23
    Comment
    "You're welcome" is not out of date. It's always nice and appropriate and polite to say, and pleasing to hear.

    It's equally nice (and polite) to say something like "My pleasure" or "Happy to do it."
    #1AuthorHappyWarrior (964133) 02 Dec 13, 02:11
    Comment
    I recommend restraint in thanking someone for something. For example, I hate it when someone thanks me for my patience or my understanding (for a problem or inconvenience that is being inflicted on me) when I in fact am not being patient and have little such understanding. Another very common example, if I preform a valuable service for someone, including providing valuable advice, I'm often a bit perturbed to be thanked for my time. While it may be true that I consider my time to be valuable, I don't like the implication that there wasn't something even more valuable in play. A simple thank you would be better.

    I say, "You're welcome" regularly, or something like suggestions in #1. I have known a few "very important people" who say, "No, thank you!" so often (and in inappropriate cases) that they create the impression of being very insincere.
    #2Author Jurist (US) (804041) 02 Dec 13, 02:47
    Comment
    I don't think 'You're welcome' is out of date either; it's true that you hear it less often, but I agree with HappyW and Jurist that it's still perfectly acceptable.

    Especially in writing, if you want to sound more cordial and/or sincere, you might say 'You're very welcome,' 'It was a pleasure,' 'It was no trouble at all,' 'I was happy to do it,' etc. To me only 'No prob(lem)' is too short and offhand to be really polite.

    I don't usually say 'in advance,' much less 'Thanking you in advance,' but unless it's only a very short note, I would usually write a full sentence, not just 'Thank you' but maybe 'Thank you for your help/assistance,' or at least 'Thank you very much.'

    Re Jurist's comment:

    I have actually been known to write something like 'Thank you for your patience/understanding,' because I'm a chronic procrastinator and I feel guilty and want the other person to know I can at least acknowledge that I was at fault. The ideal way would be always to be on time, but if I've already failed at that, I don't know anything to do but try to sound apologetic and appreciative for any extra trouble. But maybe just 'I'm sorry this is so late' would be better.

    To me just 'Thanks' is fine for something quick, especially with a person you already know, or with a stranger in person in passing. For a longer explanation, or in a longer letter, it could be too short or too casual.

    The only time I can imagine 'You're welcome' being condescending is when you say it angrily, after you did something for another person and they didn't bother to say thank you at all.

    Partly I seldom write business letters or e-mails these days, though, so others may have a different opinion about what sounds more current.
    #3Author hm -- us (236141) 02 Dec 13, 02:48
    Comment
    "Thank you in advance", which I come across primarily on the internet (but not that much in LEO forums, thankfully) boarders on being rude, as far as I'm concerned. If you are asking me for something, thank me if you get a satisfactory result if it seems appropriate to do so, but don't try to relieve yourself of the burden of that social nicety by throwing it out "in advance". On the other hand, if it doesn't seem like a rote formula, I guess I have less objection. Maybe, "I have a serious problem here and some time constraints. I would be very grateful for any assistance you/anyone could provide me by the close of business today." (With an actual thank you afterwards, if appropriate.)

    Response to #3. Yes, saying "I'm sorry" is much better than thanking someone for being understanding / understanding the inconvenience you caused, in my opinion.
    #4Author Jurist (US) (804041) 02 Dec 13, 03:01
    Comment
    (2) "No, thank you" (#0)

    The problem with this is that if the italicisation somehow goes missing (as in Jurist’s comment, #2), it would mean “Nein, danke” – which would no doubt give rise to puzzlement.
    #5Author Stravinsky (637051) 02 Dec 13, 07:18
    Comment
    @Stravinski. Thank you very much indeed! ;-)

    "No, thank you." is what I meant to write at the end of #2.
    #6Author Jurist (US) (804041) 02 Dec 13, 08:00
    Comment
    It's all in the delivery. Not dated. A pleasant and appropriate delivery is always fine.
    A 'you're welcome' before being thanked is always rude and snarky.
    #7Author svaihingen (705121) 02 Dec 13, 08:06
    Comment
    Possibly my UK bank e.g. thinks I'm old-fashioned or not particularly polite; if requesting them to do something for me, "(Many) thanks in advance" is appropriate IMO. "Thanks/Thank you" are for after the event for me. And ending such a request letter with an abrupt "Thank you." sounds a bit like giving orders I find.
    #8Authormikefm (760309) 02 Dec 13, 10:53
    Comment
    OT
    @ Jurist (US): "I hate it when someone thanks me for my patience or my understanding (for a problem or inconvenience that is being inflicted on me) when I in fact am not being patient and have little such understanding."

    You don't ride the Berlin S-Bahn with me every day, do you? That's precisely what they say after they announce that my train has been cancelled or is delayed for one out of about five various (but usually meaningless) reasons. If it were to happen once it a while, fine. Instead, recently, I've been hearing the condescending announcement almost any time I'm on the platform.
    #9Author hbberlin (420040) 02 Dec 13, 13:11
    Comment
    yes; "We apologis/ze for any inconvenience." fits much, much better.
    #10Authormikefm (760309) 02 Dec 13, 13:14
    Comment
    @#9: Count yourself lucky. In days of yore, there was an announcement that the train was delayed/ cancelled and that was it. Not even a 'leider' anywhere.
    #11Author Gibson (418762) 02 Dec 13, 13:17
    Comment
    @ all, thank you for your comments.

    I prefer 'you're welcome', even if it is old-fashioned.
    (according to Bryan A. Garner)


    OT "Go Seahawks"! :-)
    #12Authorme1 (236101) 03 Dec 13, 01:36
    Comment
    Garner is usually worth looking at, but he can be insufficiently old-fashioned for my taste.

    It all depends on context, of course.

    You're welcome came to feel a little stiff and formal

    Yes, true, in this case:
    [Bill enters the room] Hi, guys. Who's winning the game?
    [Host] Hey, it's Bill. Seahawks by three. Thanks for bringing a six-pack!
    [Bill] (probably not: "You're welcome.")
    #13Author Jurist (US) (804041) 03 Dec 13, 01:52
    Comment
    I agree with Jurist - "you're welcome" is just about the last response you would expect to hear.

    There's an old thread on this subject related discussion: You're welcome., where I see I wrote the following:
    "What makes the subject more amusing is that no one actually says "you're welcome" in response to a "thank you", at least not here in California where I live.

    A typical response to "thank you" would be "that's OK", or "no problem", or "sure thing", or "glad to help", or something like that, but almost never the schoolbook "you're welcome".


    That's still my experience.
    #14Author Martin--cal (272273) 03 Dec 13, 07:19
     
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