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    Question about BE vs AE capitalization rules

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    Question about BE vs AE capitalization rules

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    Does BE have different rules regarding the capitalization of languages and nationalities from AE? I'm asking because since I've been in Germany I've noticed that as a rule written English here almost never capitalizes these words. For example at least in AE:

    I have a German car (correct)
    I have a german car (incorrect)

    Many Germans learn English in school. (correct)
    Many germans learn english in school. (doubly incorrect)


    This is even seen as an error when I set my spell checker to British English.
    As far as I know (at least in AE) languages and nationalities are always capitalised even when used as adjectives, but as a rule I have noticed that Germans almost never capitalise them when writing in English. I personally find it annoying. Might there be some new spelling rule difference between AE and BE that I haven't heard about or is capitalizing these words perhaps only optional in BE? Do Germans learn this in school when studying English?

    I'm always told by Germans that German has complicated capitalization rules as opposed to English which doesn't.... Is there perhaps a gap in their knowledge or am I missing something?

    AuthorJillHammond (870292) 27 Aug 14, 13:33
    Comment
    In these examples I don't think Germans fail to capitalize because they have learned British English; rather, they fail to capitalize out of habit, because the capitals are not used in German.
    #1Author ion1122 (443218) 27 Aug 14, 13:42
    Comment
    Nein, das ist keine neue Regel, denke ich. Viele Deutsche wissen das einfach nicht, dass es eine Handvoll Ausnahmen zur generellen Kleinschreibung gibt. In meiner Schulzeit ist das z.B. nur nebenbei angesprochen worden.
    #2Author wundertype.de (243076) 27 Aug 14, 13:45
    Comment
    While I'm not an expert in BE, as far as I know, there is no difference between AE and BE regarding capitalization in such cases. I believe that ion1122 is on target -- it's simply a case of German-speakers applying German patterns to English (such as the ubiquitous comma placed before "that" when used in the sense of "dass" -- as in "I believe, that ionn1122...)
    #3Author hbberlin (420040) 27 Aug 14, 13:47
    Comment
    @2 (OT):

    *Viele Deutsche wissen das einfach nicht, dass es eine Handvoll Ausnahmen zur generellen Kleinschreibung gibt. In meiner Schulzeit ist das z.B. nur nebenbei angesprochen worden.*

    Als wäre das alleine nicht schon traurig genug, scheint das bei einigen Zeitgenossen auch im Deutschen so zu sein ...
    #4Author Woody 1 (455616) 27 Aug 14, 13:49
    Comment
    In my #1, I was thinking of the adjectives "German" and "English", not the nouns; Germans are of course in the habit of capitalizing nouns!
    #5Author ion1122 (443218) 27 Aug 14, 13:49
    Comment
    I have noticed that Germans almost never capitalise them when writing in English.

    Das scheint mir dann aber doch eine etwas verzerrte Wahrnehmung zu sein. Viele Deutsche lernen Englisch in der Schule, und dabei lernen sie auch, welche Wörter großzuschreiben sind. Dass manche das dennoch falsch machen, mag daran liegen, dass sie die simple (und falsche) Regel abgespeichert haben, im Englischen werde alles kleingeschrieben, außer am Satzanfang. Oder aber daran, dass sie sich um korrekte Groß- und Kleinschreibung sowieso nicht kümmern und auch im Deutschen einfach alles kleinschreiben. Mit AE/BE hat das nichts zu tun.
    #6Author dirk (236321) 27 Aug 14, 13:52
    Comment
    @2: Das Großschreiben von Nationalitätsbezeichnungen ist die einzige Regel, die immerhin in meinem Englischunterricht in der Schule zum Thema Groß-/Kleinschreibung vorkam. Die Abweichung von der Regel "nur Kleinschreibung" finde ich so markant, dass man sich es merken kann.

    Da nur literarische Texte behandelt wurden, sind sonstige Punkte zur Großschreibung (Überschriften, Beschriftung von Grafiken, Texte mit Spiegelpunkten) nicht wirklich angesprochen worden, so dass bei mir Durchwurschteln angesagt ist.
    #7Author unnaix (769252) 27 Aug 14, 15:13
    Comment
    It gets worse: Title/headline case in AE (even most native BE speakers -- and quite a few native AE speakers -- have a problem with that one!), the difference between compass points as a direction (e.g., "head southwest") and as a designation of a region ("Life in the American Southwest"), the fact that names of months and days are capitalized but seasons aren't (July, Monday vs. autumn/fall, spring, winter...)
    #8Author hbberlin (420040) 27 Aug 14, 16:10
    Comment
    Nationalitäten immer groß? Sogar in der Redaktion des M-W werden french fries gegessen - und dazu ein Salat mit French dressing, während man in der Kantine der CMOS-Redaktion konsequenterweise ein french dressing bekommt. Dafür serviert das CMOS swiss cheese neben Swiss emmentaler. Wer soll bei solch einer Quellenlage da noch seinem Englischlehrer vertrauen? Darauf einen scotch!
    #9Author Cuauhtlehuanitzin (1009442) 27 Aug 14, 16:43
    Comment
    Note the comment in M-W regarding "french fry" – "noun, often capitalized 1st F"

    CMOS Q&A has an explanation for this sort of exception to the capitalization rules:
    According to CMOS, 16th ed., 8.60,

    Personal, national, or geographical names, and words derived from such names, are often lowercased when used with a nonliteral meaning. For example, the cheese known as “gruyère” takes its name from a district in Switzerland but is not necessarily from there; “swiss cheese” (lowercase s) is a cheese that resembles Swiss emmentaler (which derives its name from the Emme River valley).

    The type of cheese known as "swiss cheese" in the US is most likely produced in the US, and thus the term is not used literally. This non-capitalized form makes it possible to distinguish it from "Swiss cheese" (which would then be any type of cheese that comes from Switzerland). The same can be said for "french dressing."

    That said, note that CMOS's answer included "often lowercased" – in both of these cases, however, the uppercased version would be accepted by almost all.
    #10Author hbberlin (420040) 27 Aug 14, 17:20
    Comment
    I'm always told by Germans that German has complicated capitalization rules as opposed to English which doesn't.... Is there perhaps a gap in their knowledge or am I missing something?
     
    They are the same ones who believe "Englisch ist doch einfach." ;-)

    And I doubt whether the English capitalization rules are that much simpler than the German; they are compounded by usage for one thing.
    #11Authormikefm (760309) 27 Aug 14, 19:09
    Comment
    #8: Title/headline case in AE (even most native BE speakers -- and quite a few native AE speakers -- have a problem with that one!)

    We don't have a problem with it - we just tend to do it differently! :-)
    #12Author Spike BE (535528) 27 Aug 14, 19:48
     
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