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    Why do people use „be to do with“?

    Topic

    Why do people use „be to do with“?

    Comment
    „To be to do with“ appears to have come up more recently, especially in BE.
    There are two contributions in this forum and a lot of grammatical clarifications online.

    And if an increasing number of people are using it, it becomes grammatically correct at some point as this is how languages develop
    So this thread not about grammatical correctness.

    To me the proper phrase is „has to do with“, although in practice people use it synonymously.
    Stylistically I just find it one of the most annoying phrases within the English language.

    It sounds very softened to me, not very assertive, somehow intended to make one‘s language sound pleasing at all costs.


    But there must be a reason why people are switching from „have to do with“ to „be to do with“.
    You don’t switch for no reason and I assume it is semantic.

    What do you think?
    AuthorHO2 (1293841) 11 Feb 20, 16:48
    Comment

    HO2, have you got any example sentences? I don't think I quite understand what your question is. It would help if you had some concrete examples.

    #1Author papousek (343122) 11 Feb 20, 17:08
    Comment

    Ich glaube, er meint, dass früher "X has nothing to do with Y" gesagt wurde, während heute "X is nothing to do with Y" verwendet wurde.



    #2Author B.L.Z. Bubb (601295) 11 Feb 20, 17:56
    Comment

    That's what I first assumed, Bubb, but for your example sentence with 'nothing', the dictionaries all list the 'have' AND the 'be' versions as synonyms, with no indication which version came 'first' and which is therefore more 'proper'.


    eg

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/e...

     be/have nothing to do with sb/sth

    to have no connection or influence with someone or something:

    We are nothing to do with the firm that has the offices next door.

    In the evening he likes to read books and articles that have nothing to do with his work.


    #3Author papousek (343122) 12 Feb 20, 11:31
    Comment

    Die Version mit "be" ist IMHO im British English schon immer geläufig. Aber nur dort.

    #4Author Jalapeño (236154) 12 Feb 20, 13:04
    Comment

    Ich kenne die 'be'-Version auch schon ewig. H02, kannst du bitte dein Sprachprofil ausfüllen? Auf welches Englisch beziehst du dich? Oder verstehen wir dich alle falsch und du meinst etwas anderes?

    #5Author Gibson (418762) 12 Feb 20, 15:10
    Comment

    Just for the record: The "to be" version sounds highly foreign (and awful) to my AE ears... No doubt some AE speakers use it (they likely "take" a meeting, too), but I wouldn't consider it mainstream AE.

    #6Author hbberlin (420040) 12 Feb 20, 15:30
    Comment

    Sounds normal to me for BE.


    But if it's catching on elsewhere, it could be to do with* the fact that we say e.g. "It's nothing to do with you" - which could be "has" or "is". When I say that, I mean "is" (or I'd add a "got" if it was "has"), but people often see contracted forms and misinterpret them.


    *You'd say "it could have to do with the fact"? That sounds weird to me.


    We also say "It must be related to his age", why not "It must be to do with his age"?

    #7Author CM2DD (236324) 12 Feb 20, 16:35
    Comment

    OED:

    (b) Chiefly British. to be to do with: to be connected with, to be related to; to be of concern to. Cf. to have to do with (also †mid, †of, †on) at Phrases 1b(a).

     

     (i) With pronominal complement (what, anything, etc.) of be.

    1906   Minutes of Evid. Royal Comm. Worcester Election 153/2  I have given it to him gratuitously, never thinking that it was anything to do with the Election whatever.

    1929   P. Gibbs Hidden City xxxix. 189  It's something to do with that poisonous little beast Benito..the boy she dances with.

    1937   H. Jennings et al. May 12th Mass-observ. Day-surveys (1987) ii. 360  He was full of grouses that it was nothing to do with him.

    1959   Daily Tel. 12 Dec. 6/2  Association with the America of that period might involve her unnecessarily in troubles which were little to do with Asia.

    2010   J. Powell Breaking of Eggs (2011) ii. 19  I came to realise that for Benoît it was all to do with money.


    The version with "have" is much older, but the version with "be" isn't really a new trend any more either.


    #8Author CM2DD (236324) 12 Feb 20, 16:41
    Comment
    Sorry for the late reply...


    Yes I was thinking that the „to be“ version is actually something more recent.
    It has come to my attention only within the last years. Maybe it „has to do“ with my perception though (and here is my example sentence...).

    And yes, no dictionary clarifies the usage or how it sounds to people. Hence I threw in my own one. „Has to do with“ just sounds more assertive to me.
    That’s exactly why I brought up the topic and maybe it’s too new to have been researched before.

    So to some it sounds „foreign“, others have never heard the „have to“ version and a third one is that it’s a „could of / would of“ pattern of incorrectly understood contractions.
    #9AuthorHO2 (1293841)  14 Mar 20, 20:40
    Comment

    Hier wird u.a. auf die Frage eingegangen, ob "is to do with" chiefly brit. ist und -für mich überraschend- verneint:

    Separated by a Common Language: be/have nothing to do with


    Interessant ist übrigens, dass Ausgangspunkt der Frage ein Zitat aus einem Text von David Crystal war, der als einer der bekanntesten Sprachwissenschaftler der letzten Jahrzehnte tatsächlich "is to do with" schrieb.


    #10Author wienergriessler (925617)  06 Aug 22, 13:10
    Comment

    #10

    That's not a reliable source. Just to get a feel for where the author is coming from, here's how it starts out:

    Now, I love queries that come with the homework already done. Farrrr superior to the ones with no greeting, no signature, no please and no thank you that demand that I explain why their spouse says such-and-such or why other people are idiots who say this-and-that. (I'd write "you know who you are", but such lack of self-consciousness in making demands of complete strangers is evidence of a lack of, well, self-consciousness.) And Tim did a good job of comparing the two phrases...except for one little problem. Can you spot it?


    Before we get to the methodological issues, I'll answer his question. No, it's not a well-recogni{s/z}ed difference between BrE and AmE. Every source I've checked lists the two phrases as variations on each other, without noting anything about dialect, and sources on BrE/AmE differences...don't mention it either. [my bold]


    Obviously the author did not consult the OED (see #8) which does list it as a chiefly BE variant. Strange, that a self-proclaimed linguist does not check or mention the OED, or Merriam-Webster (see below) for that matter. It looks like a classic case of cherry-picking of evidence. In fact, the author cites no reliable English dictionaries and does not bother to check any of the well-known corpora available of the English language. Instead she relies on google(?) search results. That approach is fraught. The assumption that certain domain endings mean that the sites in that domain are authored by native speakers of a certain language is flawed. There is no way to tell what the native language is of a certain site by its URL. English Wikipedia entries are often authored by several people from all over the globe, each having a different native language, sometimes none of which is English. Anyone speaking any language in the world can have any domain ending they want if they pay a hosting fee. There are no language requirements whatsoever for a .com, .uk, .edu domain and many of those domain endings, especially .com, are highly coveted because they get more traffic, or at least that is the perception. English is the lingua franca of the world, for better or for worse.


    By typing in keywords for any opinion you choose you can always find websites (often in the form of blogs) that agree with that opinion. It doesn't really mean anything without knowing something about the source and the author, that is, doing some kind of source analysis.


    Finally, here is another quote from the site in #10:

    I suspect that the 'shun' meaning is less common on academic sites than on general sites, which include lots of places where people can be relatively free about declaring whom they are shunning--so I believe this might be a truer reflection of the relative Britishness of be nothing to do with.

    Everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion, but that seems to me like highly dubious reasoning.



    ************************************************************

    Definition of be to do with idiom

    chiefly British

    1 : to relate to (something) : to be about (something) The problem is to do with fishing rights.

    2 : to relate to or involve (someone) That's your problem: It's nothing to do with me!

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/be...

    #11Author wupper (354075)  06 Aug 22, 14:23
     
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