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    Dixie and the Battle Hymn

    Comment
    I would like to ask our American Leonists a question: What is the image of "Dixie" like in the South, and what is like in the North? On the one hand, "Dixie" is some kind of a witty ballad which is sung to a lively tune; however, on the the other hand, it has been the war song of the Secessionists during Civil War, when it was sung to rather bloodthirsty lyrics (at least such is my impression when reading it). Now, what are the connotations if "Dixie" is sung or played nowadays? Will it be associated with the ballad or with the war song? Does it make a difference where in the US it is played, i.e. will the people of the North e.g. connotate it to "Johnny Reb" rather than a Southerner would?

    Then, what about the "Battle Hymn of the Republic"? My impression that this song is accepted everywhere, it least it was played e.g. at Reagan's funeral, even though it was the song of the North.

    Thanks!
    AuthorOekolampad02 Jul 04, 19:23
    Comment
    Not sure what bloodthirsty lyrics you mean. The only words I know are these:

    Oh, I wish I was in the land of cotton,
    old times there are not forgotten,
    look away ... Dixie land.

    In Dixie land where I was born in,
    early on one frosty mornin' ...

    (refrain)
    Oh, I wish I was in Dixie, away, away,
    in Dixie land I'll take my stand,
    to live and die in Dixie,
    |: away, away, away down south in Dixie. :|

    AFAIK no other words are at all widely known today. Simplistic nostalgia for cotton plantations, which then usually required backbreaking slave labor, is understandably offensive to modern African Americans. But the longing for home of young Confederate soldiers is also understandable.

    Nor would I call it a ballad (slow romantic song; stanzaic folk story-song). In fact, the words aren't often sung; it's more an instrumental fife-and-drum marching song, still occasionally played by high-school and college bands, and indeed strongly associated with the South. My impression, though, is that it doesn't arouse quite such strong partisan feelings as the Confederate flag, which nowadays is often strongly linked to white separatism.

    The tune is generally cheerful and upbeat. I happen to like more plaintive arrangements such as the one featured in the excellent TV series on the Civil War by the American filmmaker Ken Burns (probably on video/DVD, music on CD).
    #1Authorhm -- us03 Jul 04, 06:58
    Comment
    The Battle Hymn is indeed much more a national hymn, partly because of its stirring tune (also originally a marching song, with various secular words), but perhaps owing more to its religious content, which earned it lasting popularity in hymnals and churches. It originally invoked scriptural imagery (undoubtedly familiar to a preacher of your centuries of experience *g*) in support of the abolitionist cause. The un-PC "hero born of woman" verse is now often omitted.

    A link on Dixie:
    http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/...
    I seem to recall another recent NPR feature on the Battle Hymn, including some discussion of the line "let us die to make men free," but I don't find any record of it yet online.
    #2Authorhm -- us03 Jul 04, 06:59
    Comment
    @ hm -- us

    Thank you for your detailed comment. Sure, the lyrics "I wish I was in the land of cotton" are not at all bloodthirsty, however, the lyrics during Civil War actually were the following (first two verses of about six or seven http://home.earthlink.net/~poetry61-65/confed...):

    Southrons, hear your country call you,
    Up, lest worse than death befall you!
    To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
    Lo! all the beacon-fires are lighted,--
    Let all hearts be now united!
    To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!

    CHORUS:Advance the flag of Dixie!
    Hurrah! Hurrah!
    In Dixie's land we take our stand,
    And live or die for Dixie!
    To arms! To arms!
    And conquer peace for Dixie!
    To arms! To arms!
    And conquer peace for Dixie!

    Hear the Northern thunders mutter!
    Northern flags in South winds flutter!
    To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!
    Send them back your fierce defiance!
    Stamp upon the cursed alliance!
    To arms! To arms! To arms, in Dixie!

    BTW, why is the wording "hero born of Woman" un-PC? (For instance, should he be born of a male??) :-)
    #3AuthorOekolampad03 Jul 04, 07:37
    Comment
    Sorry if I was cryptic, it's past my bedtime. Un-PC perhaps particularly in conjunction with 'crush the serpent with his heel,' which evokes the medieval concept of Eve as somehow the antithesis of Mary, woman as either whore or virgin but nothing in between. Admittedly not a great concern to many people, but the kind of thing hymnal editors tend to notice. And identifying a military enemy with Satan is also not unproblematic, at least to many theologians.

    Thanks for the other lyrics, though I still feel that they're (a) not very bloodthirsty (certainly not compared to, say, the Marseillaise), (b) almost wholly unknown, and (c) probably not the oldest version anyway, since Dixie was apparently composed as a minstrel song before the war, according to my hasty skim of the link I gave above. (-:
    #4Authorhm -- us03 Jul 04, 08:17
    Comment
    The Battle Hymn of the Republic

    Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord
    He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored,
    He has loosed the fateful lightening of His terrible swift sword
    His truth is marching on.

    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    His truth is marching on.

    I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps
    They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps
    I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps
    His day is marching on.

    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    His truth is marching on.

    I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnish'd rows of steel,
    "As ye deal with my contemners, So with you my grace shall deal;"
    Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel
    Since God is marching on.

    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    His truth is marching on.

    He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat
    He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat
    Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
    Our God is marching on.

    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    His truth is marching on.

    In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
    With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
    As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
    While God is marching on.

    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    His truth is marching on.


    The Battle Hymn of the Republic is one of my favorite songs. Although it is a war song and tends to include thoughts of the religious right.
    #5Authorkmna03 Jul 04, 08:24
    Comment
    @ kmna: you omitted the last verse, I'm afraid:

    He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
    He is wisdom to the mighty, He is honor to the brave;
    So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of wrong His slave,
    Our God is marching on.

    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
    Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.
    #6AuthorOekolampad03 Jul 04, 08:39
    Comment
    @ hm -- us: Thank you for the further explanation. (I, however, would not have associated the serpent with eve but to the tempter or whichever way one might wish to express it. Besides, according to apocryphas, the serpent was Adams first wife, a daemon called Lilith.)

    From the fact that the Confederate verse were even not known to you, I would judge that "Dixie" is not connotated to the Civil War which would by the same time answer my question.

    Thanks to all of you!
    #7AuthorOekolampad03 Jul 04, 08:46
    Comment
    Dixie comes originally from the french "dix" = "ten". It was a 10 dollar note created by the french in the South of the States. Therefore the South is called "Dixieland".
    By the way: "Cajun" is the wrong spelling of "Arcadian". But we will have this in the next lesson :)
    #8AuthorMaggull09 Mar 08, 01:19
    Comment
    "Acadian"
    #9Authorchris.de (361497) 09 Mar 08, 01:59
    Comment
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_%28song%29

    The remark about "rather bloodthirsty lyrics" indicates that you are a person who makes little effort to research things before talking about them.

    Let's just summarize that the southeastern United States has an extremely strong regional identity, both to its natives and to the rest of Americans, on a par with the regional identities of Bavaria and other regions of Germany.

    Your inquiry seems to suppose that it is common among Americans to have strong feelings about the song Dixie. This is a naive notion. Many Americans (Southerners and not) do indeed have strong attitudes about "the South", but not about the song Dixie in particular.
    #10Authorhurmata (364229) 09 Mar 08, 03:15
     
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