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    say or is saying

    Comment
    In cartoon descriptions we can find the sentence "In the speech bubble, the man says:.... In my view, this is wrong. I think, one has to use the present progressive here, just as one has to use the present progressive to describe any actions that "take place" in a cartoon / photo.
    Am I on a wrong track here, or would you agree?

    By the way, I personally would not mention the speech bubble at all, but simply write "the man is saying that...
    AuthorJulie Mango20 Oct 10, 23:57
    Comment
    I don't think there's a law for this, but I would use the progressive myself.
    #1Author dude (253248) 21 Oct 10, 00:10
    Comment
    Schau mal, ob hier was brauchbares für dich dabei ist:

    related discussion: tenses for picture description
    #2AuthorZora [de] (593998) 21 Oct 10, 00:24
    Comment
    Interesting. Cartoons, or books, for that matter, are all created at some point in the past but continue to live somehow into the present. Thus for me the simple present or simple past or present progressive or past progressive are all acceptable.

    Have you seen the cartoon where Blondie says/is saying/said/was saying to Dagwood, "stop"?
    Civil Disobedience is the work in which Thoreau says/is saying/said/was saying we should organize against injustice.

    All sound OK to me


    #3Author Todd (275243) 21 Oct 10, 00:25
    Comment
    I agree with Todd, but I think there's a difference between recalling or mentioning something one saw as opposed to describing a picture/painting/photo/cartoon/etc. to, say, a reader. For the latter, the progressive seems more apropos.
    #4Author dude (253248) 21 Oct 10, 00:33
    Comment
    I think the simple present is surely the default.

    I wonder if it depends partly on whether the cartoon is a joke with a punchline. It seems to me that the simple present is the normal tense for jokes: A minister, a priest, and a rabbi walk into a bar. The minister says ... And the priest says ... And then the rabbi says ... So to me, if the cartoon is a joke, you would tell it in that narrative way.

    In a classroom exercise, if the teacher's question is 'What is happening in this frame/picture,' the students might say 'In the first frame the minister, the priest, and the rabbi are walking into a bar.' But that still sounds wrong to me if the picture doesn't specifically show action in progress, e.g., legs moving, the door of the bar opening, people going through it. And in a still picture such as a cartoon, I wouldn't really expect that; it's more a snapshot than an action.

    So in general, I would avoid the progressive in describing comic strips or cartoons unless there is visible action in progress. And to me, speech doesn't count as action in the sense of movement.

    Just as another tip, I would never write 'In the speech bubble.' It's not necessary to draw attention to the fact that cartoons use bubbles or other conventions to represent speech; everyone knows that. Just write something like

    In the first frame/picture, the man is speaking to his wife. He says, 'Honey, I'm home.'

    It's essentially like any other narration, telling a story; books don't use the progressive for reported speech.

    However, for an indirect quote you could probably use the progressive:

    In the first frame/picture, the man is speaking to his wife. He's telling her that he's home.

    #5Author hm -- us (236141) 21 Oct 10, 04:40
    Comment
    Agree Todd, #3. They all sound okay.

    I'd probably say: In this frame, the man says ...

    (In other words, "says" is not wrong, IMHO.)
    #6Authoropine (680211) 21 Oct 10, 04:52
    Comment
    OT: In English, we say

    I agree with Todd.

    #7Author hm -- us (236141) 21 Oct 10, 05:11
    Comment
    (OT: Thanks, hm -- us,

    I would consider all three ways acceptable:
    -- I agree XXX. (Speaking directly to person, though typing.)
    -- Agree XXX. (Informal, but used also when speaking directly, though typing.)
    -- I agree with XXX. (Speaking to the forum.)

    Or, am I missing something?

    XXX = person's/user's name)
    #8Authoropine (680211) 21 Oct 10, 05:48
    Comment
    If you are speaking to a person, you must use a comma.

    Thank you, Mr. Smith.
    Of course, Janet.
    I agree, Todd.


    There's no such thing as '*agree Todd.' Even in telegraph style, that would be barely intelligible.
    #9Author hm -- us (236141) 21 Oct 10, 06:10
    Comment
    (OT: #9, don't really agree, but okay.
    If I am barely intelligible, so be it.
    I would lose the commas (in #9),
    in contemporary AE. Peace.)
    #10Authoropine (680211) 21 Oct 10, 07:36
     
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