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    Roll the dice. / Roll the die.

    Topic

    Roll the dice. / Roll the die.

    Comment
    Dear all,

    I'd like to write my own instructions for a board game. It's a game played with one die.

    I'm confused!
    I've never heard "Roll the die." before. Rather "Roll the dice."
    Which one is correct?

    Thanks a lot!
    Authorjunebug (854904) 18 Feb 14, 18:57
    Comment
    Korrekt ist eigentlich 'die' wenn's nur einer ist. 'dice' ist der Plural. Wird aber gerne falschgemacht (und oft geht es ja auch um Plural)
    #1Author Gibson (418762) 18 Feb 14, 19:00
    Comment
    Na ja, normalerweise wird halt mehr als nur ein Würfel benutzt, insofern ist "dice" nicht unbedingt falsch. Hier allerdings "die."
    #2Author dude (253248) 18 Feb 14, 19:01
    Comment
    dice noun (plural dice) 1 a small cube with a different number of spots, from 1 to 6, on each of its sides or faces, used in certain games of chance. 2 a game of chance played with one or more dice. See also die2. verb (diced, dicing) 1 to cut (vegetables, etc) into small cubes. 2 intrans to play or gamble with dice. dice with death to take a great risk. no dice colloq used to indicate a negative answer or unsuccessful outcome.
    ETYMOLOGY: 14c: originally the plural of die2.
    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/...

    dice noun (plural dice) 1 a small cube with a different number of spots, from 1 to 6, on each of its sides or faces, used in certain games of chance. 2 a game of chance played with one or more dice. See also die2. verb (diced, dicing) 1 to cut (vegetables, etc) into small cubes. 2 intrans to play or gamble with dice. dice with death to take a great risk. no dice colloq used to indicate a negative answer or unsuccessful outcome.
    ETYMOLOGY: 14c: originally the plural of die2.
    http://www.chambers.co.uk/search.php?query=di...

    1dice noun \ˈdīs\
    : a small cube that is made of plastic, wood, etc., that has one to six dots on each side, and that is used usually in pairs in various games
    : a gambling game played with dice
    : a small cube
    plural dice
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dice

    Feel free to use "dice" even if there's only one of them.
    #3Author SD3 (451227) 18 Feb 14, 19:11
    Comment
    Danke für eure Antworten! =)
    Bin leider immernoch ganz verunsichert... Wie kann es sein, dass man in 20 Jahren Englisch lernen / hören noch nie "Roll the die." begegnet ist?

    Vielleicht hat ja noch jemand eine Meinung dazu?
    Bin sogar auf "Roll a dice" bei meiner Recherche gestoßen.
    #4Authorjunebug (854904) 18 Feb 14, 19:12
    Comment
    Wie kann es sein, dass man in 20 Jahren Englisch lernen / hören noch nie "Roll the die." begegnet ist? Probably because "roll the dice" is correct.
    #5Author SD3 (451227) 18 Feb 14, 19:15
    Comment
    Thanks a lot, SD 3! Sounds convincing!
    #6Authorjunebug (854904) 18 Feb 14, 19:16
    Comment
    LOL
    #7Authorjunebug (854904) 18 Feb 14, 19:17
    Comment
    The word "dice" is much more familiar than "die". Some people do distinguish between die and dice, but many people just use dice for singular and plural.

    Here's what one website says:

    Historically, dice is the plural of die, but in modern standard English, dice is both the singular and the plural: throw the dice could mean a reference to two or more dice, or to just one. In fact, the singular die (rather than dice) is increasingly uncommon.http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definiti...

    From another website:

    If dice is treated as singular often enough, we may simply have to accept that the word has changed. But, for now, careful writers still keep dice and die separate.http://grammarist.com/usage/dice-die/
    #8Author eric (new york) (63613) 18 Feb 14, 19:17
    Comment
    You're the best! Thanks, thanks, thanks!
    #9Authorjunebug (854904) 18 Feb 14, 19:19
    Comment
    I support #8, including especially the last part.
    #10Author Jurist (US) (804041) 18 Feb 14, 19:29
    Comment
    Please define "correct," SD3.
    #11Author dude (253248) 18 Feb 14, 19:30
    Comment
    Na gut, ich sag ja auch nicht mehr 'datum'. Aber es war mal falsch, in grauer Vorzeit ;-)
    #12Author Gibson (418762) 18 Feb 14, 19:35
    Comment
    dude, please see #3 (Oxford, Chambers, and Merriam Webster).
    #13Author SD3 (451227) 18 Feb 14, 20:25
    Comment
    Here's an interesting take on the problem:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=2WsCAAAAQAAJ...
    Two nouns, die and penny, have each two forms of the plural : one regular, die-s, pennie-s ; the other irregular and collective, dice, pence. The expression " six pennies" means six of the coins called pennies.; "six-pence" a sum the value of six pennies. So the word dice means the set of four dies used in play.

    Granted, the book, "The elements of the English language" by Ernest Adams," was first published in 1858, but I think it goes quite a way in explaining modern usage.
    #14Author dude (253248) 18 Feb 14, 21:26
    Comment
    Interesting, maybe, but modern usage doesn't have 'dies' as a plural at all, does it? Except of course in the other meaning (diecasting, etc.).

    If I were writing instructions for a board game that was going to be used by young children (since I can't think of any other game where you would only use one die), I think I would indeed write 'Roll the die,' even though it sounds a little funny to say it. On balance it seems better to me to model the correct singular form, even though it's less frequently used.
    #15Author hm -- us (236141) 18 Feb 14, 21:52
    Comment
    We had a discussion on this only a month or two ago:

    die vs dice

    and there are several other forum discussions listed in the Leo dictionary.
    #16AuthorHecuba - UK (250280) 18 Feb 14, 21:58
    Comment
    ... but modern usage doesn't have 'dies' as a plural at all, does it? No, not to my knowledge, but that's what I meant when I said that passage goes a long way in explaining modern usage. Obviously games played with dice are usually played with a set of dice. One wouldn't count the individual "dies," would one?
    #18Author dude (253248) 18 Feb 14, 22:39
    Comment
    --- edit ---
    #19Author no me bré (700807) 18 Feb 14, 23:12
    Comment
    Wie kann es sein, dass man in 20 Jahren Englisch lernen / hören noch nie "Roll the die." begegnet ist?

    Obviously you've never played Dungeons and Dragons - I haven't either, let's make that clear, but I knew a lot of people who did back in the day. Most game instructions that I've seen that involve the use of one die now and then differentiate between dice and die. Off hand, I can't remember those other games, but I'm sure I've seen it a few times.

    http://www.wikihow.com/Play-Dungeons-and-Dragons
    Dice are referred to by number of sides, so a d20 refers to a twenty-sided die. Some times you will need a d2 or d3, since these do not exist use a d6 with 1,2,3=1 and 4,5,6=2 or just a fair coin (d2) and 1,2=1; 3,4=2 and 5,6=3 (d3). The number preceding the "d" is the number of dice; so 3d6 is three six-sided dice.
    #20Author svaihingen (705121) 19 Feb 14, 01:42
    Comment
    Who says a dice? Or one dice?
    #21Author Jurist (US) (804041) 19 Feb 14, 02:26
    Comment
    Jurist, I'm with you here--in spirit. That is, I agree that people shouldn't say that.

    Nevertheless, I know lots of people who do say that.
    #22AuthorHappyWarrior (964133) 19 Feb 14, 03:54
    Comment
    re #21: I do: one dice, two dice, three dice...
    [BE]
    #23Author amw (532814) 19 Feb 14, 11:38
    Comment
    So do I. Using "die" sounds hypercorrect/affected to me.
    #24AuthorKinkyAfro (587241) 19 Feb 14, 11:43
    Comment
    FWIW, I'd use "die" and not worry about sounding "affected." I think I'm manly / rough-and-tumble enough to get away with it. :-)
    #25Author dude (253248) 19 Feb 14, 16:50
    Comment
    As I've usually seen "a die" in older texts, I'll add "old-fashioned"/"dated" to my #24.
    #26AuthorKinkyAfro (587241) 19 Feb 14, 17:48
    Comment
    Admittedly, I may be somewhat old-fashioned (having been accused of that at times by my oh so hip daughters), but as I'm looking through google, I see lots of examples that use "roll the die" or a variation thereof, and most of them seem to be pretty modern usage. So maybe there's a BE/AE difference, too?
    #27Author dude (253248) 19 Feb 14, 17:56
    Comment
    Maybe, but I would also say "roll the die" if there's only one.
    #28Author Spike BE (535528) 19 Feb 14, 19:04
    Comment
    So are you old-fashioned, too, Spike?
    #29Author dude (253248) 19 Feb 14, 19:06
    Comment
    If you're really old-fashioned, you probably say "cast the die" (Rubicon and all that . . .). (;-)
    #30AuthorMikeE (236602) 19 Feb 14, 20:47
    Comment
    #29: in some things, undoubtedly!
    #31Author Spike BE (535528) 19 Feb 14, 22:59
    Comment
    Three more dictionary definitions of "dice""

    dice - definition

    noun British English pronunciation: dice /daɪs/ Word Forms

    Related dictionary definitions
    dice verb
    dice
    dice up
    slice and dice
    dice with death

    1
    [countable] a small block of wood or plastic with six sides marked with spots, that you roll or throw to play a game
    Thesaurus entry for this meaning of dice

    a.

    [uncountable] a game that is played with dice, especially in order to win money
    Thesaurus entry for this meaning of dice

    2
    [plural] small square pieces of food
    Thesaurus entry for this meaning of dice

    http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary...


    English definition of “dice”
     
    dice
    noun [C] (GAME) /daɪs/ (plural dice)

    C2 (US also or old-fashioned die) a small cube (= object with six equal square sides) with a different number of spots on each side, used in games involving chance:

    We need two dice to play the game.

    You roll/throw the dice and whoever gets the highest score goes first.

    › [U] any game involving chance in which dice are thrown:

    Let's play dice.

    http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/br...


    dice (daɪs Pronunciation for dice )

    Definitions

    plural noun

    1.cubes of wood, plastic, etc, each of whose sides has a different number of spots (1 to 6), used in games of chance and in gambling to give random numbers

    2.Also called: die (functioning as singular) one of these cubes

    3.small cubes as of vegetables, chopped meat, etc

    4. See no dice

    verb
    5.to cut (food, etc) into small cubes
    6.(intransitive) to gamble with or play at a game involving dice
    7.(intransitive) to take a chance or risk (esp in the phrase dice with death)
    8.(transitive) (Australian, informal) to abandon or reject
    9.(transitive) to decorate or mark with dicelike shapes

    http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/e...

    I've been looking for an English dictionary that does not accept "dice" as singular. No luck so far!
    #32Author SD3 (451227) 20 Feb 14, 07:05
    Comment
    I keep looking for dictionaries that have a usage panel or otherwise take positions or otherwise give guidance as to word choice, register and usage. (Not that I would likely get a lot of support in this case from most current dictionaries as opposed to style or usage resources.)

    Garner's Modern American Usage has:
    "dice. In formal usage, the numbered cube used in games of chance is called a die, and two or more are dice. But the word dice is often used sloppily as a singular--e.g. ..."
    #33Author Jurist (US) (804041) 20 Feb 14, 07:28
    Comment
    Re #32.
    I've been looking for an English dictionary that does not accept "dice" as singular. No luck so far!

    That, then, will be very good news for everyone who attends my extended-family's annual family reunion.

    I can honestly say that hearing "dice" used as a singular noun does not much bother me (I have heard it so used all of my life). However, I do think "dice" is (properly) plural--and these online dictionaries seem to agree, defining it--as a noun--to be (only) the plural of "die":

    American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language:

    NOUN:
    1. Plural of die.
    2. pl. dice, also dices
    A small cube, as of food.
    A dish of diced food.

    ===

    Collins English Dictionary:

    [This definition is quoted in #32, and seems to support “dice” only as a plural.]

    ====

    Vocabulary.com:

    Dice are what you roll when you're playing Yahtzee or Monopoly; they are two cubes marked with dots on each side that represent the numbers one through six.
    The noun dice is the plural form of the singular die. Although many people use the word dice when they're talking about a single die, it's actually only correct to call two or more of the dotted cubes dice. You can also use the word as a verb to mean "chop into tiny pieces or cubes." You might, for example, read a recipe instruction that says: "Dice three tomatoes."

    =====


    All things considered, my view is that one should not worry too much about this one. It’s clear that “dice” is widely accepted as both a singular and a plural noun.

     
    #34AuthorHappyWarrior (964133) 20 Feb 14, 08:27
    Comment
    Fowler's 3rd ed.:
    "The small cubes with faces bearing 1-6 spots used in games of chance are the dice (pl.); and one of them is also called a dice.

    Merriam-Webster's Concise Dictionary of English Usage:
    "The use of dice as a singular for one of the small cubes thrown in various games has been the object of some discussion . . . . [lots more]. The OED shows that the singular dice has been in use since the 14th century. It is apparently primarily in spoken use, for it is fairly rare in print. If dice players scorn die as a singular in speech, they (or their editors) seem to prefer it in print."

    My usage also conforms with that.
    #35AuthorMikeE (236602) 20 Feb 14, 13:28
    Comment
    I think this discussion has been excellent, and it should be accessible among the forum discussions on "dice." Currently it is not so included.

    Someone (who knows how--I don't) should add this thread as a link in one of the existing threads that can be conjured up by searching for "dice."
    #36AuthorHappyWarrior (964133) 20 Feb 14, 18:45
    Comment
    Re #35: 'In print' is exactly where I balk at using the plural as singular, so for once, maybe M-W describes my usage as well.

    As for Fowler, I vote the other way with Garner (#33), not for the first time -- but that may also reflect a degree of AE/BE difference accurately, since Spike seems in a smaller minority among BE speakers.
    #37Author hm -- us (236141) 20 Feb 14, 20:32
     
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