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    i s t h e r e a s p e c i f i c t e r m

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    i s t h e r e a s p e c i f i c t e r m

    Comment
    for this kind of spacing?
    Authortrehala16 Feb 07, 09:49
    Comment
    The spaces between the words did not come through in the caption. What I mean is whether there is a specific term for using this kind of spacing to emphasize a sentence in a paragraph:

    bla bla bla bla bla a n d t h e n t h e a u t h o r u s e s t h i s k i n d o f s p a c i n g and then contiues bla bla bla

    (instead of italics)
    #1Authortrehala16 Feb 07, 09:52
    Comment
    yes, there is:

    gesperrt drucken
    #2Author penguin (236245) 16 Feb 07, 09:53
    Comment
    Auf Deutsch soweit ich weiß: Dictionary: gesperrt gedruckt
    #3Author Jalapeño (236154) 16 Feb 07, 09:53
    Comment
    Agree with penguin and Jalapeño.
    #4Author Norbert Juffa (236158) 16 Feb 07, 09:55
    Comment
    But what is it called in English? Hardly spaced spacing!
    #5Authortrehala16 Feb 07, 09:57
    Comment
    oh sorry, I thought you were looking for German

    gesperrter Satz = spaced type or letter-spaced type
    #6Author penguin (236245) 16 Feb 07, 10:00
    Comment
    Printers call it "letterspacing" and, yes, that is one compound word. It is never used for emaphsis in English, but often used by newspapers as a means for achieving justification (in the typesetting sense) in narrow columns, where the necessary results cannot be achieved by inter-word spacing.
    #7AuthorJoe W16 Feb 07, 10:07
    Comment
    Thanks!
    #8Authortrehala16 Feb 07, 10:16
    Comment
    One more question: If it is never used in English, how would you render it in an English translation, in italics? And is there a source I can quote for the German author to assure him that it is never used in English? (He is going to want to see it letterspaced, I just know it.)
    #9Authortrehala16 Feb 07, 11:09
    Comment
    It is never used for emphasis in English, -
    Das bezweifle ich sehr! Belege zu suchen fällt mir schwer, aber ich bin mir recht sicher, in englischsprachigen Texten sowohl Gesperrtdruck als auch Großbuchstaben häufiger gesehen zu haben.
    #10AuthorMerl16 Feb 07, 11:17
    Comment
    Eine schnmelle Googlesuche bestätigt Joe W's Einschätzung: "letterspacing is not ordinarily considered acceptable in modern typesetting of English". Wie gesagt, ich habe das anders in Erinnerung.
    #11AuthorMerl16 Feb 07, 11:27
    Comment
    Ist das denn im Deutschen noch üblich? Das kommt doch aus der Zeit der Schreibmaschinen, als man nicht viele Möglichkeiten zur typografischen Hervorhebung hatte. Heute würde man doch auch im Deutschen Texte zur Hervorhebung kursiv (im Fließtext) oder fett/größer (Überschriften u. dgl.) setzen, oder?
    #12Author RE1 (236905) 16 Feb 07, 11:54
    Comment
    ASAIF heißt das "spaced-out text".
    #13Author Ferenczi (237228) 16 Feb 07, 12:44
    Comment
    "spaced-out" means crazy or on drugs.
    #14Authorstocky16 Feb 07, 19:28
    Comment
    Ferenczi's suggestion also sounds familiar to my ears as a colloquial description. Ferenczi, your English is AE, right? Anyway, spaced-out does mean aloof or on drugs, etc., but not in this context.
    #15Authorwpr (236109) 16 Feb 07, 21:37
    Comment
    It is never used for emphasis in English, -

    Das bezweifle ich sehr!
    Merl


    As a native English speaker (and reader), I have never seen it in English. When I first encountered it in German, it looked weird to me.

    In English - at least in my experience - emphasis is indicated through italics or bold or underlining. Occasionally through capital letters (Grossbuchstaben) or small capital letters, or occasionally through a larger print size or even a different color print. Never through increased letter spacing.

    (It's possible that it might be seen in an English-language book or article printed by a German printer, based on as a misunderstanding of English style. English speakers would not recognize that it's intended to indicate emphasis.)
    #16Authoreric (new york)16 Feb 07, 22:25
    Comment
    English speakers would not recognize that it's intended to indicate emphasis.

    That's a good argument, but still based on subjective experience. I wish we could find some quotable source that says "don't do it!" - but of course, you cannot tell someone not to do something that it would never occur to you to do.

    Maybe there's some book especially for German authors about publishing in English?
    #17Authortrehala16 Feb 07, 22:32
    Comment
    I can only support eric (new york) and Joe W's statement that this type of spacing is not used in English language texts for emphasis.

    As for providing sources for this assertion, it seems to me that someone(the author of the German text or whoever thinks this is so) would need to provide some quotable source that letterspacing is used in English texts for emphasis. Why should one have to prove that something doesn't exist? One can't assume that just because there is some rule or tradition for something in German typography that the same must hold true in English, or any other language, for that matter.
    #18Authorwpr (236109) 16 Feb 07, 22:56
    Comment
    That is true, but when it comes down to presenting a desktop manuscript, what do you do with an author who says "where does it say that I may not use it?"
    This work will not be copyedited, so I have no editor to support my decision to use italics instead of spacing.
    #19Authortrehala16 Feb 07, 23:09
    Comment
    You can try this, though it's by negative implication:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracking_(typography)

    Tracking is commonly confused with kerning; however, tracking refers to the space between all the letters of a word, while kerning refers to the space between two individual letters. Tracking is measured in points. Positive or “loose” tracking is increased space between letters. Negative or “tight” tracking is decreased space.

    In hand-set typography and older mechanized typesetting systems such a linotype, letterspacing is the practice of inserting same-sized spaces after each of the letters in a word: L E T T E R S P A C I N G. The size of the spaces chosen depended on the amount of space the letterspaced words needed to occupy.

    Letterspacing is sometimes used on the Internet in an effort to confuse or defeat automated text-search systems or content-control software.

    It gives several reasons why letterspacing is used in English, but never mentions using it for emphasis.


    This source mentions how it is used in German, but never says it is used in English:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boldface

    Letterspacing
    In Germany, a different means of emphasis was previously used. To achieve a variance in blackness, instead of making the letters darker, one would increase the spacing between them. This resulted in an effect reverse to boldface: the emphasized text becomes lighter than its environment. This was referred to as sperren in German ("letterspacing" in English), which could here be translated as "spacing out". While sperren normally means "to lock (out)", this particular meaning was figurative: with the older method of typesetting with letters of lead, the spacing would be achieved by inserting additional non-printing slices of metal between the types.

    The reason for this particular German typographic convention can be seen in the traditional use of blackletter typefaces, for which boldface was not feasible, since the letters were very dark in their standard format. The blackletter typefaces were officially abolished in 1942 by Nazi Germany[citation needed](see Antiqua-Fraktur dispute), and after that, its use quickly diminished. As a result, the use of spacing as a means of emphasis in printed materials quickly became obsolete. However, spacing is sometimes still used as a means of emphasis in typographic media where only one typeset is available, e.g. in typewritten communication or on text-only computer terminals.
    #20AuthorRobNYNY16 Feb 07, 23:16
    Comment
    Here's another place that says that "sperren" is strictly German:

    http://acjs.net/weblog/2005/06/12/language_sp...

    German ― Middle & Old High
    In classic German typography, bolding was not a very convienent way of making emphasized words stand out from the rest of the text as the blackletters that were used were already very heavy. Extra letter spacing (and thereby actually making emphasized words lighter) was used instead.

    The author seems to be a Dutch designer.
    #21AuthorRobNYNY16 Feb 07, 23:36
    Comment
    @ wpr and stocky: I know what spaced out usually means. As an author writing for English and American publishing houses I also know that "gesperrt drucken" is a no-no (and it is practically no longer found in German publications either). But, in my role as a transcriber and translator, I recently wrote a foreword, in which I said that "spaced-out text in the original has been italicized." The reviewers of that prestigious University Press in the US of A were quite happy with that formulation.
    #22Author Ferenczi (237228) 17 Feb 07, 00:02
    Comment
    spaced-out text in the original has been italicized

    Great! Thanks so much everyone for the support and all your help and suggestions.
    #23Authortrehala17 Feb 07, 00:34
    Comment
    I have to vote with #14 and against Ferenczi on this one. Typographers could probably figure out what you meant by 'spaced-out,' but AFAIK that term really does only mean mentally absent, on or as if on drugs, not normally conscious or attentive.

    What about something like 'loosely spaced text,' 'wide-spaced text,' 'text with extra-wide letter spacing,' etc. Maybe even 'spread-out text'?

    The Chicago Manual has an online page where they answer readers' questions. I looked in the actual book but didn't find anything (which doesn't mean it's not there; their index is rather inconvenient to use). This might actually be a good one to ask their editors.

    In any case, I agree that that method is not used in English and that anyone encountering it should probably just substitute italics.

    #24Author hm -- us (236141) 17 Feb 07, 01:53
    Comment
    Hi hm,

    before posting my original inquiry I had checked my MLA Style Manual and MHRA Style Book and found nothing on it. Spacing in their indexes always refers to the spacing of paragraphs, lines, quotations, footnotes, etc., and not letterspacing.

    Perhaps "wide letterspacing in the original has been italicized" would be a better way to put it.

    #25Authortrehala17 Feb 07, 16:52
    Comment
    Emphasis in the original text is indicated with italics.

    Instead of asking the reader to guess why the original text was spaced out, why not cut to the bottom line and say that it was emphasis? "Emphasis in the original" is a standard editorial concept in English writing:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22empha...
    #26AuthorRobNYNY17 Feb 07, 17:36
    Comment
    Emphasis in the original text is indicated with italics.

    I find that misleading. It would have to read: What was emphasized in the original text is now put in italics. Or: Emphasis in the original is now indicated by italics.

    I find the phrase from # 25 more practical.
    #27Authortrehala17 Feb 07, 17:45
    Comment
    penguin got it absolutely right... although I seem to remember seeing /Sperrdrück/ also

    my only comment is that I seem to remember that the old German Spelling rules (back when they used the old "Sütterlin" handwriting) apply:

    Goethe would be /G oe t h e/ or maybe even /G oe th e/
    Gauß would be /G a u ss/ or maybe even /G a u sz/
    Pfoersching would be /Pf oe r sch i n g/
    Schubert would be /Sch u b e r t/

    By the way, although I believe his family name was originally Pfoersching, General Pershing (famous US Army General) is the more familiar spelling)
    #28Authorsnegopa (298915) 17 Feb 07, 18:35
    Comment
    @snegopa,
    that is all very interesting but I fear you have missed the point!
    #29Authortrehala17 Feb 07, 18:47
     
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