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    English missing

    Bezahlen im Restaurant: zusammen oder getrennt?

    Subject

    Bezahlen im Restaurant: zusammen oder getrennt?

    Sources
    Wie fragt der Kellner auf Englisch, ob die Rechnung (zwei oder mehrere haben gegessen) zusammen oder getrennt bezahlt wird?
    Danke!
    Author hinzkunz (736755) 16 May 11, 16:09
    Comment
    Anders als in Deutschland ist es m. W. nicht üblich, getrennt zu zahlen. Der Kellner wird also in der Regel nicht von sich aus fragen. Falls doch, eventuell:

    (Are you going to) split the bill?
    oder:
    "going Dutch"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_Dutch

    (Wobei ich kein native speaker bin - was meinen die anderen?)
    #1Author mad (239053) 16 May 11, 16:14
    Comment
    In my experience this eminently sensible procedure isn't followed in England. Instead, the waiter puts the bill on the table, each person works out how much they owe and then makes their contribution to a common pile. Usually no-one has any change and the total of everyone's calculated contributions is less than the total on the bill, which leads to endless discussion.

    So sorry, I don't know how to translate your sentence.
    #2AuthorPhilip (BE) (236286) 16 May 11, 16:16
    Suggestion'separately or all together'
    Comment
    e.g.
    #3Authorpumpkin_3 (765445) 16 May 11, 16:17
    Comment
    "Going Dutch" might be used by the diners among themselves ("Shall we go Dutch?"), but I can't imagine a waiter using it. When talking to the waiter I think the diners are more likely to ask if they can split the bill, but (in the UK at least) it's not something the waiter would ever ask the diners. The scenario I described above is the most common, in my experience.
    #4AuthorPhilip (BE) (236286) 16 May 11, 16:21
    Comment
    Will that be all on one ticket / all together? (when ordering)
    Will that be all together / all on one check? (when finishing eating)

    In the US as well, I think the default is to assume one check, because otherwise it really is more work for them and harder to keep everything straight, including probably harder for the cooks to synchronize two tickets for the same table so that the food comes out all at the same time.

    Customers can request separate checks at the beginning of the meal, and most restaurants will do it, though some won't. Waiters may offer of their own accord to write separate checks for everyone in a really large group, but you can also expect a fixed service charge of 18-20% per person in any group over, say, eight people.

    But if you aren't a really large group and haven't asked in advance, you can't really expect the waiter to split up the dishes according to who ordered what at the end; that would be too much to ask. The most that people typically do at the end of the meal is ask the waiter to put, say, half the total on one person's credit card and half on another, which is usually easy enough for only two credit cards.

    But if half a dozen people want to each pay their own, you're usually stuck with cash, in which case one person often volunteers to collect and count it, perhaps paying by credit card and making up any small difference. (Anyone petty enough to underpay isn't going to be persuaded by argument, and if anyone really is short of money, the kind thing is to help them out.)

    I agree that 'go Dutch' is used mainly only when inviting a group to meet for a meal and making clear that each person will pay their own way.

    'Split the bill' isn't wrong, but that would be more for between two diners, or two couples, afterward. Whoever had the less expensive thing might offer, 'Shall we just split it down the middle?', rather than calculating each person's share exactly, which, again, can look petty, though not uncommon. (Hassling over pennies is said to be more typical in groups of women, perhaps because women have traditionally had less money to spend.)

    #5Author hm -- us (236141) 16 May 11, 17:51
    Comment
    I've never heard a waiter saying "ticket" when the check is meant. Where do they say that?
    #6Author dude (253248) 16 May 11, 17:54
    Comment
    Philip @ 2 the total of everyone's calculated contributions is less than the total on the bill - Im Ausgangstext geht es doch um England und nicht um Schottland!! ;-))
    #7Author manni3 (305129) 16 May 11, 17:56
    Comment
    Also, "going Dutch" usually refers to a date, for instance. I don't think it's applicable to an entire group, though. A group would simply "split" the bill.
    #8Author dude (253248) 16 May 11, 17:57
    Suggestion.....
    Comment
    'Hassling over pennies'????? I believe the query was simply how to express the wish to pay for your own drinks/food, common enough on the continent and also in GB for, say works outings or staff parties etc., where each pays for his/her own consumables. Absolutely not a matter of haggling over pennies, just good sense and plain old economics in tough times.
    #9Authorpumpkin_3 (765445) 16 May 11, 17:59
    Comment
    Phillip - you obviously go dining with the wrong people. When I go in a group, there's usually more than enough money, and they usually all insist on being the one to leave the tip.

    Sensible as the idea of splitting the bill may be (and the waiter usually ends up getting a larger tip that way), it is very time-consuming, particulary if there is a party of 10 or 12 people. In my experience, it is either done as Phillip says - everyone throws in their share - or one person pays the bill, maybe with plastic, and then all the others give him/her their share, which amounts to the same thing, really.

    I have never known bills to be split unless the group is very small ( 2 - 3 people).
    #10Author tomtom[uk] (762098) 16 May 11, 18:03
    Comment
    re #6: Where I am, and in other places I've been to as well. The ticket is what the waiter writes at the beginning, the check is what the diner gets at the end, but they're somewhat interchangeable.

    re #8: To me it's exactly the reverse: any number can go Dutch, but 'split' means divide in two. tomtom's comment in #10 suggests that he/she reads it the same way.

    re #9: I think the original query was what the waiter usually says, and we've answered it.

    We also touched on what customers can say: for instance, 'Could we have separate checks, please?' My point was just that may not be as likely except with fairly large groups, but that if you need to ask, you should do it at the beginning of the meal rather than the end, so as to avoid predictable problems.

    re #10: Yes, actually in my experience people are more likely to give too much than too little. (-:
    #11Author hm -- us (236141) 16 May 11, 18:11
    Suggestion....
    Comment
    Regular practice on our company dinners etc., with groups of 8 - 10, mixed genders, I hasten to add. Everyone simply pays for his/her own food, simple as that. We are not mean or awkward, it's just the way it has always been done. Anyway, translation has been given, so whatever the social etiquette may be ...
    #12Authorpumpkin_3 (765445) 16 May 11, 18:12
    Comment
    re #12: Of course where there are a lot of business meals, waiters may be more used to groups wanting separate checks. If they're prepared for it, of course it's not too much to ask; it's just better for the customers to ask at the beginning than to wait and mention it at the end, or expect the waiter to propose it.
    #13Author hm -- us (236141) 16 May 11, 18:18
    Suggestion....
    Comment
    That's true: make it clear before the meal, as we always do on business occasions
    #14Authorpumpkin_3 (765445) 16 May 11, 18:19
    Comment
    In the US as well, I think the default is to assume one check, because otherwise it really is more work for them and harder to keep everything straight, including probably harder for the cooks to synchronize two tickets for the same table so that the food comes out all at the same time.

    It's very common in Austria (and continental Europe, I suppose). What do you mean, synchronize? You just order your food the way you always do. It's only after you've consumed it that the head waiter will ask how you'd like to pay ("Zusammen oder getrennt?) and, assuming the latter, everybody just pays what he or she consumed. Just because I am sharing a table with someone doesn't mean I want to share the bill with them, too.

    I am always annoyed at the chutzpah with which restaurant owners are externalizing their billing problems. I would like (and indeed, have a legal obligation to) pay what I have ordered, but the rest of the party really doesn't enter into it.

    But if you aren't a really large group and haven't asked in advance, you can't really expect the waiter to split up the dishes according to who ordered what at the end;

    Yes, you can. Sometimes they will ask in advance, i.e. before taking orders, though.
    #15Author Carullus (670120) 16 May 11, 18:37
    Comment
    As far as I know, the system in the kitchen is for the chef to look at the ticket, the piece of paper on which the order is written (if they're not computerized), and plan for everything on it to be ready at about the same time, so it will be hot and everyone at the table will get their food at once. If you have two or more pieces of paper per table, that's harder to do.

    And if you don't ask in advance, how will the waiter know who had what? All it might say on the ticket might be something like 'one order of bruschetta, five house salads, one cup of mushroom soup, two pasta primaveras, three hamburgers, one bowl of chili ...' How is the waiter supposed to divvy all that up and know who had what salad with what entree, and how many people shared the appetizer?
    #16Author hm -- us (236141) 16 May 11, 18:44
    Comment
    German waiters seem to be very adept at juggling things about - years of practice probably. But they seem not to mind, maybe because that's the way it's always been done and an alternative hasn't occurred to them. And, as I already pointed out, they usually end up with a tip well in excess of 10%.
    #17Author tomtom[uk] (762098) 16 May 11, 18:51
    Comment
    ... how will the waiter know who had what?

    Good waiters have good memory, too :) But for larger groups, he just brings the list of orders and strikes off the items that people tell them they had. He then adds them up (mental arithmetic, another important waiter's skill) and takes the money from one person after the other.

    How is the waiter supposed to divvy all that up and know who had what salad with what entree, and how many people shared the appetizer?

    Diners are expected to and happily will cooperate, obviously. Shared items are usually paid for by a single person, although it's not uncommon to split it between two ("I'll also pay half of the chicken wings.")

    If there are "unclaimed" items and nobody comes forward (after some prodding) people will usually each throw in a few coins as needed. It rarely happens.
    #18Author Carullus (670120) 16 May 11, 18:54
    Comment
    Maybe this is one of those cases where to do the job in Germany or Austria at all you need a qualification and an apprenticeship, and then the people really do have more skills, like memory and organization, even though they're skills that Americans might think the job doesn't really require. Mental arithmetic, good heavens, what would waiters do without computers? (-;

    We usually consider ourselves lucky if the waiter is organized enough to serve the right people without having to ask, Now, who had the ranch and who had the blue cheese?
    #19Author hm -- us (236141) 16 May 11, 20:03
    Comment
    It's fairly common in these parts (SoCal), too, for the waiter to ask a large group before taking their orders, "Will this be all (on) one check?"

    #20Author dude (253248) 16 May 11, 20:09
    Comment
    hm, in Deutschland fragt der Ober: Wer war das Wiener Schnitzel? Waren Sie das Cordon bleu?
    #21Author manni3 (305129) 16 May 11, 20:42
    Comment
    na, ich war doch die Currywurst rot-weiß! Und das Pils.

    übrigens, in London haben wir noch vor kurzem zu viert / fünft am Ende des Abends vier Kreditkarten auf das Tablett des Kellners gelegt, und der hat die Rechnung dann einfach in vier gleichen Teilen auf die Karten verteilt. Jede/r von uns vier konnte dann beim unterschreiben auch noch Trinkgeld geben - auch keine schlechte Methode.
    #22Author Spinatwachtel (341764) 16 May 11, 20:46
    Comment
    Bis auf das Problem der Quersubventionen natürlich, aber das ist ein anderes Thema :)
    #23Author Carullus (670120) 16 May 11, 21:24
    Comment
    Quersubventionen?

    Theoretically the evenly-divisible-amount method should work if the waiter has a calculator handy, but what if there's a per-transaction credit card fee? Wouldn't it be more costly for the restaurant?
    #24Author hm -- us (236141) 16 May 11, 21:38
    Comment
    In Illinois we frequently went for lunch as a group of 5-10 persons. If I remember well, the waiters usually asked if all would go on one check upon taking orders, and we usually paid separately, with one or two exceptions everybody with their credit cards. Normally without any confusion.
    #25Author Wachtelkönig (396690) 16 May 11, 21:46
    Comment
    I assume Carullus is talking about having to subsidize someone else's Filet Mignon and bottle of Château Margaux when you've only had a salad and a glass of tap water yourself. Which has never bothered me - what's a couple of euros among friends? :-)
    #26Author dulcinea (238640) 16 May 11, 21:48
    Comment
    #26 - quite!

    What is truly objectionable is to be the last two left in the bar after a big work-do, and everyone paid "their share of the bill" when they left, but you're somehow miraculously left with about 20 beers each to pay...
    #27Author Spinatwachtel (341764) 17 May 11, 08:30
    Comment
    tomtom #10: I haven't dined out in England with large groups since I was a PhD student, which might explain why in my experience people's contributions were sometimes rather modest. This is probably less of a problem when everyone's got well-paid jobs, but #27 says it still happens.
    #28AuthorPhilip (BE) (236286) 17 May 11, 10:17
     
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