...at home he is a stranger no more

Das stimmt nicht ganz. "Einige meiner besten Freunde sind Fremde, aber diese Fremden da sind nicht von hier." (Asterix, Das Geschenk Cäsars).

SCNR - ansonsten ist Bubis Vorschlag sehr schön!

Jim Morrison (The Doors) from People are Strange.

That's the best way I can think of to capture this in English.

One could also say "Only abroad is a stranger a stranger."

@Bishop: ..und reimt sich auch noch besser (stranger-longer;o)

Kann jemand mir erklären, was genau "die Fremde" bedeutet in diesem Sprichwort?

Fremdheit ist schon ein Wort bei LEO aber "die Fremde" ist hier nicht befindlich.

Also, fährt man "in die Fremde"? d.h ins Ausland? Ist "die Fremde" idiomatisch?


"Fremd ist der Fremde nur in der Fremde."(Karl Valentin)

Wenn ja, hier ist mein Beitrag:

"Foreign is the foreigner only in a foreign land."

One level up: 'An alien is only an alien when he is not among (similar looking!) aliens (in a galaxy far, far away).' (George Lucas did get Karl Valentin's message.)

But you are right. 'Die Fremde' is 'idiomatisch' in German, meaning foreign, unknown surroundings, in a probably far away place. But a direct equivalent in English appears to be missing and that appears to be also the reason, why LEO is rather quiet on the topic.

And that means to me: Yes! Spot on!

Kann jemand mir erklären, was genau "die Fremde" bedeutet in seinem Sprichwort?

Fremdheit ist schon ein Wort bei LEO aber "die Fremde" ist hier nicht befindlich.

Also, fährt man "in die Fremde"? d.h ins Ausland? Oder ist die Fremde eher ein geistiges Neuland?



Wenn ja, hier ist mein Beitrag:

"Foreign is the foreigner only in a foreign land."

"Foreign is the foreigner only beyond the fray." (or beyond the fringe)


Ach so, ich habe eben den mir unbekannten K. Valentin gegooglt und habe dabei Neues gelernt. Stell' dir vor!

"Fremd ist der Fremde nur in der Fremde." Wenn er dieses Wort "die Fremde" selber ausgedacht hat, ist er mir unter euch Deutschen ein ungewöhnlich tapferer Held. Wenige haben den Mut ein neues Wort ganz verwegen freizugeben. Im Gegensatz zu Englisch, wo es täglich vorkommt.

Ausstellung vom 15. Juli bis 20. September 2005
"Fremd ist der Fremde nur in der Fremde"

beduine
Fremdes und Befremdliches bei Karl Valentin

Eine Film-, Ton- und Bilderschau des Valentin-Karlstadt-Musäums
mit Originalfilmen und Tondokumenten von Karl Valentin

muß toll sein...

Go to Munich! By now I am sure you'll love it (the Karl Valentin Museum - a galaxy on its own)!

(But the term 'der/die Fremde', although the word alone is ambiguous, has not been created by Valentin.)

Kman, I know that the word die Fremde existed long, long before as an adjective made into a noun, where die Fremde means 'the woman foreigner' (or dare I coin 'alieness'?) But that is a different WORD (I mean different word not by spelling but by meaning) than

"in der Fremde." As a woman foreigner it would be "in der Fremden"

I guess one should ask: Was he the first to use die Fremde in a novel sense of "beyond the fringe"?

I don't know where you are going with this.

'Die Fremde' - can be an unknown, strange woman, but also an unknown, strange place. Is that it?

(And Valentin did not address any woman, but the location.)

Yes, Kman. Thanks for helping me.

My question is: Was "die Fremde" ever used NOT as a weak noun (inflected, gebeugt) as 'in der Fremden'
but as 'in der Fremde' before Valentin used it?

Can't you easily see that they are two distinct words because one is feminine singular and the spelling takes a weak adjective ending, but in Valentin's word it's an independent feminine noun that does not change its spelling.

And then I have to ask myself why he chose it to be feminine and not neuter or masculine... LOL...

You see, I think about your native tongue from the point of view of the Fremden looking in. LOL..

I have to admit I do have a hard time following you, but I do also very much sympathize with you! Last not least, because this seems to be a really tricky one for you and for me.

So - here it goes:

'Die Fremde' in the sense of 'the strange/foreign land' existed long before Valentin. And yes, 'die Fremde' can also mean 'strange woman', but this is not a matter of discussion in this context here (Valentin or else).

And, sorry 'in der Fremden' does not make any sense in German, unless you would want to imply a sexual connotation, which certainly is not at all warranted in this case.