This is the spoken language of Caesar's soldiers as opposed to the classical written latin language of Cicer and Virgil.

Seamus, ich bezweifele, das stimmt. Siehe bitte http://www.sprachcaffe.de/latinum/kleines_lat... .

Es scheint eine Art Examen und Bescheinigung zu sein, vorwiedgend in Deutschland.

Man kann es nicht direkt ins Englische übersetzen, da es etwas entsprechendes im englischen Sprachraum nicht gibt (jedenfalls in Nordamerika nicht; vielleicht doch in U.K.).

Man müßte -- so ungefähr -- "intermediate Latin certificate" erfinden und dann erläutern.

Obviously it would have been better if stefan had given some context, but I thought the Kleines Latinum was just the normal Latin course in a Gymnasium, as opposed to the Großes Latinum, which is the advanced course that continues into the final years. (And apparently the term 'Kleines Latinum' is now outdated, at least in many German states.) But it's all classical Latin, as far as I know.

You could say intermediate Latin as opposed to advanced Latin, but that might not be the most positive choice. In the US at least, anything after the very beginning could probably be called intermediate.

The clearest would probably just be to say how many years the person studied it. '4 years (of) Latin' (or 3 or 5 or 6 or whatever) should work on an application or résumé, or '4th-year Latin' could be the name of the class on a transcript for a particular semester or year in school.

Seamus, the 'Kleines Latinum' is a school degree which you get after having learned Latin for at least 5 years (IIRC), there is also a 'Großes Latinum', for this one you have to keep on learning Latin even longer.

I suggest 'lower degree in Latin'. But maybe there is a better expression for it.

@Maria and @Bob I am sure you are correct but the reference above implies the term also applies to Vulgar Latin so when no context is given that would be the more obvious translation. Shows how important context is. :>)

@hm -- us:
http://www.latein24.de/latinum.htm
Here you can learn about the mysteries of the Latinum (Kleines Latinum, KMK-Latinum, Großes Latinum).

The idea is that you obtain the Kleines Latinum after three years of Latin, which requires being able to translate Caesar: De Bello Gallico, and the Grosses Latinum after instruction throughout the Gymnasium years, i.e. grade 5 to 13. With that you should be able to translate Cicero and even some poets like Vergil and Horace.

I wouldn't even call the Kleines Latinum 'intermediate' but rather 'basic':
"Basic Latin Certificate"
with Grosses Latinum being
"Advanced Latin Certificate".

I needed it to do an MA at German university. British 'O' Level Latin was the Kleines Latinum and 'A' Level was the Großes Latinum. 'O' Level Latin is more than basic.

But things have changed now, at least in NRW.

Seamus, I looked at the two websites you provide and do not find that they suggest "vulgar latin." Perhaps I did not read them carefully enough.

You are right that it is best to have confirmation from the original poster, so we can see if stefan gets back to us.

@AndreasS: Okay, if you think so. I just glanced at what Wikipedia had to say and got the vague impression that the former Kleines must be the same as regular (KWK-)Latinum now, and their example seemed to show more than three years on the average, unless my math is off, which is also possible.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinum

'Basic' is just awfully close to the basics, namely, only the bare minimum, the merest introduction. Maybe 'intermediate' is a pretty good compromise after all.

—> KMK


| suffering from vertical dyslexia
v

i agree with andreas that you get your kleines latinum after three years of latin at school.
i got mine that way.

i also think the term basic can be used for the kleine latinum because it is no more than basic. you are able to understand what the text is about and can translate easy ones. not more.

I had my 'Kleines Latinum' after 4 years, for Großes Latinum I would have had to continue for one more year.
I would also suggest leaving the proper name untranslated and add something like four-year course in brackets.

Ich musste das "kleine Latinum" machen, das aber offiziell nur "Latinum" heißt. Ich würde es "Intermediate Latin certificate" nennen, nicht "basic", da der Sprung zum "Großen Latinum" ja nicht mehr sehr weit ist. Zumindest bei den Uni-Kursen.

You get the Kleines Latinum after 4 years, the Latinum after 5 years and the Großes Latinum after 6 years. At least, that's the way it is nowadays. :p

Just wanted to clarify that

@ Aurora Borealis, #14: Und von welchem Bundesland sprichst Du? -

(Remember, the so-called 'Kulturhohheit' lies with the resp. 'Bundesland') . . .

Wäre auch für so etwas wie "Intermediate Certificate of Latin".

Der Begriff "Kleines Latinum" braucht ausnahmsweise auch keinen Kontext, da er ein feststehender Begriff ist (was zugegebenermaßen leichter zu erkennen gewesen wäre, wenn Stefan ihn wenigstens groß geschrieben hätte).

Die Zahl der Jahre, die man dafür Latein gelernt hat, ist dabei m.E. irrelevant, um nicht zu sagen irreführend, denn das wird offenbar schon in verschiedenen Bundesländern unterschiedlich gehandhabt. Und dann gibt es noch verschiedene Halbjahres- oder Jahreskurse an der Uni, die auch mit diesem Abschluß enden.

@ Aurora Borealis #14:
Maybe you could also clarify the difference you see between the "Kleines Latinum" and the "Latinum"?

Heutzutage gibt es - zumindest in Berlin - die Unterscheidung zwischen kleinem und großem Latinum gar nicht mehr.
Man bekommt nach 5 Jahren das Latinum und das war's!!
Vorher hat man nichts und wenn man weiter macht, bekommt man auch nicht mehr!!

This is an age-old thread, but "Kleine Latinum" cropped up in a translation I am currently working on. It includes the following explanation, which could be helpful for future inquiries:

Dieses Zeugnis schließt das Kleine Latinum (gesicherte Kenntnisse in Latein gemäß Bekanntmachung des Bayerischen Staatsministeriums für Unterricht und Kultus vom 15. Februar 2008 [KWMBl S. 36]) ein.

Dort wo die Unterscheidung noch gebraucht wird :
kleines Latinum - intermediate Latin certificate
großes Latinum - Latin proficiency certificate

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/e...
http://www.dict.cc/german-english/Gro%C3%9Fes...