but you'd still have to explain...

One way of getting around this is when the phrase "Prussian virtues" first appears in the English text you give a list of these virtues and once you've done that you can then just write Prussian virtues without any further comment for the rest of the text because you have already defined it for your foreign-language audience.

So you could write: The Prussian virtues of hard work, order, and sense of duty etc.......

I thought there was some prejudices against Germans. Just like "the typical German works 24/7, obeys his superior, is always in time yaddayaddayadda". So maybe one could use the word "German attitudes"? Or "he his is very German-minded" or sth. like that?

SteveG and dude are correct. Preussische Tugenden are perceived worldwide as positive.

@IL you can't use the term "German attitudes" because Prussia did not include other parts of what became a unified Germany in 1871 (was it?). You have to say Prussian and this is an accepted word as used by English-speaking historians (e.g. the "Franco-Prussian War"). None of this is böse gemeint;-))

@SteveG Ich habe auch darüber nachgedacht, ob es einen Unterschied gibt zwischen "deutschen Tugenden" und "preußischen Tugenden" und ob man sonst den Deutschen die Rückkehr zu preußischen Tugenden empfehlen könnte. Aber ich denke, es kommt nicht auf den geographischen Ursprung der Tugenden an, sondern lediglich darauf, mit welchen Inhalten (Assoziationen) die Begriffe üblicherweise gefüllt werden, und daher könnten sie identisch sein.

Weitere Hinweise
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preu%C3%9Fische_...

If "Prussian virtues" is being used non-ironically in the original, it is going to be hard to capture that in a literal translation wihtout giving examples. What most Americans with any knowledge of history think of as the typical Prussian "virtues" are militarism, imperialism, anti-Semitism, homophobia, humorlessness, etc. Check out the Eulenburg scandal, the life of Wilhelm II, and the events leading to WWI for example.

@tas you're absolutely right and I agree with you. But if IL has a text saying Preussische Tugende then this is perfectly translatable and should not be collapsed into the more general "German virtues". Prussia was a specific historical entity.

If RobNYNY is right, than German virtues might still be the more appropriate translation for Preußische Tugenden, and German virtues should also be translated as Preußische Tugenden since something like deutsche Tugenden is not really a term in Germany (compared to Preußische Tugenden at least), whereas Prussian virtues doesn't really seem to be a term in other countries (as Preußische Tugenden is in Germany).

@tas I don't agree. Prussian virtues are a specific historical thing. Fontane's novels are full of the downfalls of Prussian virtues. The term Prussian is perfectly acceptable in a historical context.

@SteveG Yes, I guess you are absolutely right there - at least in a historical context. I was more relating to IL's original comment and the Otto Normalamerikaner.

I can assure you that not very many "Otto Normalamerikaner" have ever read any of Theodor Fontane's novels, or have even heard of him. Unfortunately.
This is what IL is aiming at, as I understand it.

Whoa! What are we translating? The only possible correct translation of "Preussiche Tugenden" is "Prussian virtues," with "Prussian values" a possible runner up.

Will the average American understand what that means? Who knows? but as Werner says, it is understood widely enough to be used with little or no explanation. If there is doubt, simply do what Steve and dude proposed in #1 and #2.

In #3, IL moves the goal posts. What do you need? You can say whatever you want if it's your own writing.

Dieses Beispiel zeigt sehr schön, dass es bei einer Übersetzung nicht nur darauf ankommt, woher ein Text kommt, sondern auch darauf, an wen ein Text sich richtet. IL hat uns weder einen Satz geliefert noch eine Quelle. Wir wissen also nicht, ob es sich um einen Text aus einem Reiseführer handelt oder um einen belletristischen Text, in dem das Preußentums eine große Rolle spielt oder der sich an eine gebildete Leserschaft richtet, von einem wissenschaftlichen Text ganz zu schweigen. Vielleicht werden diese Tugenden im nächsten Absatz erklärt, und wenn der Leser nicht weiß, dass Preussisch auch für einen Verhaltenskodex (Wertekanon) steht, dann lernt er es eben durch die Begegnung mit dem Ausdruck "Prussian virtues".

Einfach "German virtues" zu übersetzen käme mir so unsinnig vor, wie wenn man "gentleman ideal" mit "britische Lebenseinstellung" übersetzen würde.

Die von tas zitierte Darstellung in Wikipedia gefällt mir übrigens sehr gut.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preu%C3%9Fische_...

Thank you for those comments Andreas...

I see this topic has become rather political and also 'heated.' I claim nonetheless this translation as "Prussian Honor" may be correct in the sense that a word means different things to different people. Most people however who know of the Prussians and are not very biased based on their own academic arrogance would be American and British officers and soldiers who served during the cold war in Germany and saw Prussians and Germans as the first people to fight communism and therefore as a great people. Granted, I am the son of a cold-war era American officer and have picked up some of the terminology used by this group of people and although it means something to these people, the word cannot be used and mean something as most people have no clue who the Prussians were/are.

Aber ich find das auch, die Erklärung bei Wikipedia passt schon und die kurze Beschreibung von den Preußischen Tugenden, die am Anfang des Artikels sich befindet, ist korrekt.

@ 16 - I don't get it; you dug up a thread from 3 years ago to add a "translation" that you then admit really doesn't work?