diced is okay

actually, after reading the entire thing: Indians and South Asians in general tend to speak of "mutton" rather than "lamb." And I don't think you'd necessarily find the "Keule" part on their menu, either. Probably more like "mutton, marinaded in red..."

http://www.shopinberkeley.com/menus/mehak.pdf

All the tandoori dishes are cooked in tandoor (western .... Lamb cubes cooked in tomato, garlic, ginger, cilantro and meat masala. Lamb Do Piaza . ...

As a matter of fact, I do believe it is mutton that they use. (Not only that - they told me all the dishes they offer here with mutton are made back home in the Punjab with goat.)
Thanks very much, sammy, for the response!
What do you think of this:
Diced mutton marinated in a red yogurt-saffron sauce, grilled in the tandoori oven and served with a variety of sauces

sounds good to me (although, admittedly, it's been a long time since I traveled through India). :-)

Do they (the Indians) just say mutton, or really use it in their dishes? There's a big difference (to my mind) in taste between lamb and mutton (which I don't find at all appetizing, mutton that is).

@Maria
Who are you translating for? Because if it's for the UK I would not use mutton but lamb, as most people no longer eat mutton. I also don't think you need the diced (cos it may be sliced!!)

I would stick with lamb. All the Indian dishes I have eaten in DE used lamb and not mutton. The difference in taste is extreme.

Maria, are you translating a cooking book?^-^

@Maria: I just remember every menu containing mutton and seemingly nothing else. I had "mutton" coming out of my ears. There's an Indian restaurant around the corner from me, but they offer their dishes in only three varieties: chicken, shrimp, and vegetarian. Most Indian restaurants that I know don't offer many meats (certainly no beef!), and I haven't come across any lamb (or mutton, for that matter). I haven't found an on-line menu with lamb in it, either. Not yet, anyway . :-)

Hey sammy, check that link under # 3.

Thanks, Helmi (didn't see it before). I must say, thought, that menu is riddled with some very interesting spellings!

Confused GB: It's for Germany!
I was just thinking about opening another thread somewhere to ask what others would do in my shoes: the restaurant and the food is Indian, it's located in Germany, and they want an English-language version of their menu for the occasional tourists who don't understand German. Should I use British or American English? How much confusion would result if I stuck to just one or the other? Does a Brit know what eggplant is? Does an American know what aubergine is? What about courgette vs. zucchini? Ground lamb or minced lamb? Would it look weird or stupid to stick to the one generally, and insert words from the other in parentheses where the differences are great? Does anybody really care how I spell yog(h)o(u)rt?
Getting back to the lamb/mutton thing, however, I think I'd use "lamb" for Americans too.
F5
@sammy: check out Helmi's link! There's a restaurant in Berkeley, CA that offers loads of lamb!

thanks, Helmi, but I'm not gonna drive to Berkeley just for some lamb. :-)

@Banane: No, a menu! Dangerous work - always getting hungry! :-)

I haven't decided about the diced cubes yet -- in fact, the Berkely menu got me wondering whether I should change my chicked descriptions around (how does "boneless pieces of chicken breast" sound?) -- but "lamb cubes" sounds rather better than "cubed lamb". (What about lamb cubed? = Lamm hoch drei? Sorry, I need a break.)
But maybe after just plain "Lamb..." and "Chicken..." is fine...

@Maria: just for kicks (if nothing else), why don't you translate into Hinglish? There must be some on-line menus from Indian restaurants that are actually in India. Why not use them for guidance? You couldn't go wrong with that, IMHO, and it might actually be fun.

@Maria
Then I would check whether they have any experience as to whether they mostly get UK foreign guests or US - or European (then mostly BE English) or US guests.
I would expect an Indian restaurant to have a lot of British guests, but depends of course on where it is etc.
Most Brits will understand aubergine/eggplant and courgette/zucchini - ground lamb may be misunderstood. I wouldn't mix US and BE though - and no-one will mind whether you spell yoghurt with an h or without etc. The main point should be that the dishes sound appealing which is why I queried the mutton (which I would never order, although I order lamb whenever I can get it!)

You're not only confused, GB, you're also very cruel. How can you eat those liitle creatures that are the epitome of innocence???!!!

I agree with Confused GB, which is also why I asked about the "mutton." I once ordered "lamb" and was served "mutton" - I immediately sent it back! From the owner's reaction, it was obvious that he thought I "stupid American" wouldn't be able to tell the difference. :-)

Understand both aubergine/eggplant (but not sure whether other Americans would do so), not familiar with "courgette" but with zucchini (that could come from living in Germany for decades).

boneless chicken breast - chicken breast fillet (sounds better and it is exactly the same thing!)
@sammy
and would you believe it I even know the little beasties personally because they live their short and tender lives on my friend's smallholding!!
Every time I see them I whisper lovingly into their little furry ears "mint sauce, mint sauce" ;o)

@GB: you must have been a cannibal in a previous life, keeping a ready food supply available to you in the form of your friends and family members... :-)

@Confused GB - I couldn't bear eating the ones known to me, personally :-)

@Confused: Yes, c.b. fillet does sound better - and it's also the direct and obvious and correct translation of what's on the menu: Hühnchenbrustfilet.
My concern was that "chicken breast fillet" sounds like you're getting a whole chicken breast - no? That's why I said boneless pieces of...
On the other hand, if they're pieces, they're bound to be boneless, right?
I get a lot of hits -- that look like from English-language sites -- for "chicken breast pieces" +menu
@Carly: Like I say: the people I'm working for tell me that goat would be the authentic ingredient!

@carly totally OT
It may sound cruel but in these days of gammmelfleisch etc. I actually think it is best to know where our meat comes from. My best friend only has a handful of animals on her smallholding and shares the meat when the animals are slaughtered between her family and friends. No transport costs - you know the meat really is without hormones, chemicals etc - and best of all the flavour is awesome!!

Hi, it's me again. I don't have a deadline for this menu job, which means everything else gets done first and I get back to this in my "spare" time. But it's about time I finish this up, by hook or by crook, and get it off my desk!

I am still undecided, about both the lamb and the chicken, and would be very grateful for any more input anyone would care to offer.

I like the suggestion in #7, just "Lamb" for "Lammfleisch von der Keule", but does that make the "Chicken breast pieces" sound stupid? (Does it sound stupid anyway?) Would "Chicken breast fillet" sound like it's one big chicken breast without bone?

One note: both the chicken (where not specified otherwise, like the legs) and the lamb are in boneless pieces - bite-sized, if you have a big mouth and aren't shy about cramming it full, but actually more like two to three bites. They have actually received at least one complaint from a customer who thought "Lammfleisch von der Keule" meant the meat was still on the bone (and that was a native German speaker!).

Maybe I should say "Boneless pieces of..." for both, but it's not very elegant, is it.

Man, and now I'm getting hungry again!

OK, I think I'm gonna go with

Boneless lamb ... (marinated in... etc.)
and
Chicken breast pieces... (etc.)

Wait, don't tell me - does that sound like a whole lamb will be served up, without the bones? Augghhh!
I think I've been at this too long...

> "Chicken breast fillet" sound like it's one big chicken breast without bone?
Yes, it does.

>but does that make the "Chicken breast pieces" sound stupid?
Yes, a little.

Why not use "diced" for both lamb and chicken? Diced lamb (or diced leg of lamb, if you prefer) and "diced chicken breast"

Sounds great to me and I wouldn't expect any bones.

I did think about saying just that, but "diced" sounds like very small pieces -- or am I the only one who has that problem?

Well, I would expect diced meat to be in cubes of, say, around 2 or 3 cm or so. Anything smaller would be sliced, to me at least. But maybe that is just my personal interpretation.

Well, 3 cm is almost big enough. At least for the chicken.

I wonder if it's an AE thing, to think "diced" sounds like tiny pieces? (Like small dice, actually...)

Anything smaller would be sliced,...
Sorry, I meant to say chopped rather than sliced.

I can't find a definition of diced that gives a clue about size, but look at these pictures. It seems "diced" can vary in size.
http://www.fotosearch.com/photos-images/diced...

I'd say diced is OK.

Thank you very much, Fury! And everyone who chipped in a couple weeks ago, too.

I'm going with diced lamb and diced chicken.

'Chunks' might be a heftier alternative, but on the other hand, that could sound a little unwieldy.

'Diced' does sound rather small to me (.75 - 1 cm?), sorry to say. The other problem with it is that it suggests symmetrically cut little cubes, which if I were reading the menu might make me think of canned chicken. 'Cubed' would be a little bigger but would still have the mechanically-produced connotation.

Considering the alternatives, I don't think 'boneless pieces' is bad at all, particularly if you continue '... of leg of lamb / of chicken breast filet.'

Maybe something like 'bites'? Bite-sized pieces? Oh dear. Maybe 'chunks' isn't so bad. Definitely mention boneless, though.

NB: filet AE, fillet BE (sorry *g*)

I agree with hm -- us that "diced" implies small pieces. Like here: http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Dice and here: http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?tab....

"Boneless pieces" sounds fine to me. "Chunks" isn't very appetizing. But "boneless pieces of chicken breast filet" is a, um, mouthful. What about "boneless white chicken"? No, saying "boneless lamb" wouldn't normally conjure images of a whole lamb without the bones, but now it does, thanks!

As for "red yogurt-saffron sauce," I'd say "red sauce of yogurt and saffron." Otherwise I'd be wondering what this exotic red yogurt is, but maybe that's just me.

Not "courgettes" for the Americans in the audience. I really don't think most of us would get that one. If AE is your native idiom, I'd stick with that.

I was at an Indian restaurant the night before last. (Our table had vegetarian samosas, papadam, saag paneer, chana masala, and chicken tikka.) But it was awful close to Berkeley...

Thanks for the back-up on "diced" - I think this might be an American thing -- I mean, thinking "diced" means small like dice.

Yesterday I tried asking people I know in the States, and got the suggestion "chicken breast meat" - what do you think? Is "meat" ok? It came with the further suggestion "Tender chicken breast meat..." Getting hungry? That would be a good sign ... :-)

btw, yes, I know "chunks" is impossible. Sounds like dog-food, at best, and at worst -- well, never mind.

As it's lunchtime, let's go totally OTT.

Tender bite-sized chunks of lamb, marinated in a red sauce lovingly prepared with yoghurt and saffron, then grilled for your delectation in a Tandoori oven and served with a variety of tangy sauces

Siiiiigh. Getting the drool out of the keyboard is going to be a real pain in the a…..

Wow, MikeAl, you make "chunks" sound gooood.
My keyboard was due for a cleaning anyway...

lamb/mutton usw. usw.

Hey Maria,

wir sind hier in Deutschland.
Finde ich toll, dass die Speisenkarte übersetzt wird für Touristen, die sich gelegentlich nach dort verirren und kein Deutsch sprechen.
Aber ich denke diese ausl. Touristen sollen froh sein,
dass man ihnen überhaupt eine engl. Übersetzung der dt.
Karte bietet.
Da macht es wohl nicht so viel aus, ob man lamb oder mutton schreibt, oder ob man "Yoghurt" so oder so "Joughourt" schreibt. Die Hauptsache ist doch, dass der ausl. Gast grundsätzlich versteht, was gemeint ist. Was er nicht versteht, wird er nicht essen! Und es wird den Gast nicht vom Tisch vertreiben, wenn er irgendetwas liest, was er nicht versteht,
1.) weil er nötigenfalls fragen kann
und
2.) wer einmal sitzt, der geht in 99,9% der Fälle nicht mehr.

Die 0,1% der Fälle sind zu verschmerzen und werden den
Betriebserfolg kaum beeinflussen!

Im Übrigen, liebe Forum-Kollegen und -Kolleginnen, bin ich der Meinung, wir sollten hier nicht päpstlicher als der Papst sein.
Es handelt sich um eine Speisenkarte, nicht um eine Diplomarbeit!

@Heribert: Translation is my business, and running a restaurant is my client's business. Most people will take seriously that which they do for a living. Some are even willing to invest extra effort to do it well.

Do you think I should tell my client he should be happy with (and pay me for) a half-assed translation because a menu is not as important as an academic thesis?

Nobody who posted comments above was forced to waste their time on my query. So I suggest you chill out and let other people worry about how they want to spend their time. You've nobody but yourself to blame for the fact that you wasted your own time on reading whatever you read of this thread, and writing what you wrote.

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@Maria E - Just got my Internet connection running again, and wondered whether: braised strips of chicken/lamb might work?

But strips might be longer.

I think MikeAL has a point: 'chunks' could work, presented the right way. I like 'tender bite-sized' with either that or 'pieces.' And just 'meat' (with 'boneless') should also be possible.

@hm-us - Two or three bites' worth sounds rather long to me, and there isn't really enough meat on a leg-of-lamb to cut into chunks :-) - I like "tender bite-sized," too.

Thank you, everyone!!!

Yes, 2 or 3 bites' worth mean long(-ish) pieces, but "strips" to me are long and thin, which these chunks are not.

My latest version has "Tender chicken breast meat" and "Tender boneless lamb" -- I think for the chicken, it's more important to say which part it comes from, and if you mention "leg" anywhere near "lamb", people are going to clamor for leg of lamb. Furthermore, "meat" sounds to me like "pieces of" rather than a whole breast.

I sort of promised I would deliver the finish menu today... (Maybe around dinner time!)

Correction: the finished menu - I'm not doing a translation into Finnish!
:-)

@Maria E - If it's not too late, what about sliced chicken breast/sliced lamb (breast of chicken is always tender, if properly prepared)...chicken-breast slices ?

...but slices are not cubes/chunks...

@mint sauce - True, it had slipped my mind that she was originally talking about "chunks."